Twister DTS: A Bit Overrated? A Review.

[Lexmark3200]

From Steven Spielberg's Amblin Entertainment and the makers of Jurassic Park and director of Speed and The Haunting comes Twister, and on DVD, it was pumped up and rumored to be one of the most aurally tempting treats to ever play back on a surround system.

There was supposedly an original version of this DVD out there, which included only a Dolby Digital track and no supplements; now, I purchased the so-called "Special Edition" (which does not say Special Edition ANYWHERE on the ugly Warner Bros snap case box---why do they make DVDs like this, Warner???) and along with making of features and a Van Halen music video comes a DTS track in 5.1. I was hoping this soundtrack would blow me through my sweet spot right through the back of my couch (after all, I AM waiting for Universal to send me the "corrected" version of Jurassic Park with the corrected LFE channel).....let me say this: the scenes where the twisters are whipping around and throwing debris everywhere (including a cow), the soundstage is awesomely alive----the wind whips through the surround channels and there IS a sense of tornado in your living room....but for a DTS track on the whole, this action flick --- which is rumored to be one of THE ultimate demo discs for surround sound -- falls kind of short on bass and overall "in-your-face"ness....I cant really put my finger on what is wrong.

Sure, there are moments when your sub will come to life and rumble when trucks are being thrown around in the twisters; but I read online that this DVD explodes with bass when the tornadoes are onscreen----and that just didnt happen in my system. And I know it cant be my sub, because during The Haunting DTS ES DVD, the doors of Hill House slamming shut makes my apartment bang and shake.

[kelsci]

Hi Lex; The first thing I was hoping was to get more detailed info from widescreenreview.com. They had brief reviews on the original and special edition for the non-subscribers. On the special edition, they gave a 5 plus on the DTS track.

From what I heard from people talking on various threads on various sites when the Spec Ed. came out, that the sound of both the D.D. 5.1 and the DTS 5.1 were supposedly nearly or virtually identical. There was a reason why this was so, but I cannot recall it. It might be mentioned on some other DVD review site floating around. It is also possible that Sir Terrance will know the significance of the transfers that took place on this disc and the few others that Warner released at that time that had both tracks. There is something about DTS tracks and their bass response of which one is supposed make an adjustment to their sub by 10 DB but I do not recall if it was an increase or decrease ALTHOUGH I believe one was supposed to increase the sub on a DTS track by l0 DB(the Jurassic Park DTS ordeal failed from a true recording miscalculation so nothing would help that). If I stumble over the correct answer somewhere I will let you know. The HAUNTING DTS version proves your system is working correctly. When D.D. first hit Best Buy here in Fla., I heard a sample of TWISTER in D.D. 5.1 on Pioneers first D.D. receiver and Eosone speakers. The scene shown was when the truck was under the small bridge. You could hear each piece of wood on the bridge claking against each other. One, I believe would not hear that type of sound from DPL, I did not hear it at home from tape from any center ch. setup I had at that time. KELSCI

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Twister does not contain much bass below 30hz. So do not expect the same kind of tactile bass that you get from The Haunted to appear on Twister.

Twister and the Lethal Weapon series are encoded at the highest bit rate for each format. Dolby uses 448kbps, Dts uses 1509kbps. The are also level matched so they can be directly compared without any adjustments.

On my system, with my ears, and in my room, the Dts version sounds slightly deeper in the bass, has a more coherent speaker to speaker soundfield. There is also a subtle refinement in the music with massed strings sounding more smooth. The Dts version also has slightly more inner detail.

It does say special edition in VERY small letter on the case.

[kelsci]

Your LORDSHIP; thanks for your info on that release. I knew WB had done something for the DTS and D.D. on that disc. So your explanation of level matching was the thing that WB did. It was interesting to find out that they used full DTS bit rate on that disc and their other special editions. I think SAVING PRIVATE RYAN was the first disc to halve the DTS bitrate which was successful. I appreciate your pointing out what exactly you heard from the two codecs that were level matched and deployed at their full bitrate on that disc. KELSCI

[Lexmark3200]

Twister does not contain much bass below 30hz. So do not expect the same kind of tactile bass that you get from The Haunted to appear on Twister.

Twister and the Lethal Weapon series are encoded at the highest bit rate for each format. Dolby uses 448kbps, Dts uses 1509kbps. The are also level matched so they can be directly compared without any adjustments.

On my system, with my ears, and in my room, the Dts version sounds slightly deeper in the bass, has a more coherent speaker to speaker soundfield. There is also a subtle refinement in the music with massed strings sounding more smooth. The Dts version also has slightly more inner detail.

It does say special edition in VERY small letter on the case.

Terrence,

Thank you and Kel for the replies; I was not aware of the kilohertz rating of Twister's bass, but I was expecting it to be deep based on what I read online; reviewers everywhere claimed the gutteral growl of the twisters could actually be felt, and so thats what I expected. While there is no lack of bass, it dissapointed slightly.

I read in another review that the Dolby Digital track of this DVD delivered deeper bass, contrary to your findings on your system and to your ears, as opposed to the DTS.

I could not find the Special Edition labeling on my DVD, by the way.

[Lexmark3200]

Hi Lex; The first thing I was hoping was to get more detailed info from widescreenreview.com. They had brief reviews on the original and special edition for the non-subscribers. On the special edition, they gave a 5 plus on the DTS track.

From what I heard from people talking on various threads on various sites when the Spec Ed. came out, that the sound of both the D.D. 5.1 and the DTS 5.1 were supposedly nearly or virtually identical. There was a reason why this was so, but I cannot recall it. It might be mentioned on some other DVD review site floating around. It is also possible that Sir Terrance will know the significance of the transfers that took place on this disc and the few others that Warner released at that time that had both tracks. There is something about DTS tracks and their bass response of which one is supposed make an adjustment to their sub by 10 DB but I do not recall if it was an increase or decrease ALTHOUGH I believe one was supposed to increase the sub on a DTS track by l0 DB(the Jurassic Park DTS ordeal failed from a true recording miscalculation so nothing would help that). If I stumble over the correct answer somewhere I will let you know. The HAUNTING DTS version proves your system is working correctly. When D.D. first hit Best Buy here in Fla., I heard a sample of TWISTER in D.D. 5.1 on Pioneers first D.D. receiver and Eosone speakers. The scene shown was when the truck was under the small bridge. You could hear each piece of wood on the bridge claking against each other. One, I believe would not hear that type of sound from DPL, I did not hear it at home from tape from any center ch. setup I had at that time. KELSCI

Thanks Kel; as I posted to Terrence, I was not aware that Twister was not supposed to deliver the same gutteral bass as, say, The Haunting, so perhaps thats where my dissapointment lay; and as I told Terrence as well, I read that some folks preferred the Dolby Digital soundtrack on Twister over the DTS because it actually delivered more bass.
When Terrence talks of the DD and DTS tracks on Twister and Lethal Weapon, is he saying that both films have DD and DTS tracks that were recorded at identical levels so they can be compared without touching the volume----that is, we can compare the Twister DD and DTS versions to each other and the Lethal weapon DD and DTS versions to each other?

As for your reply about demoing the scene with the car under the bridge, yeah, thats a pretty intense scene....you can hear that wind whipping around you through the surround channels; its pretty cool. Still, no bass in the scene, or very little.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Thanks Kel; as I posted to Terrence, I was not aware that Twister was not supposed to deliver the same gutteral bass as, say, The Haunting, so perhaps thats where my dissapointment lay; and as I told Terrence as well, I read that some folks preferred the Dolby Digital soundtrack on Twister over the DTS because it actually delivered more bass.
When Terrence talks of the DD and DTS tracks on Twister and Lethal Weapon, is he saying that both films have DD and DTS tracks that were recorded at identical levels so they can be compared without touching the volume----that is, we can compare the Twister DD and DTS versions to each other and the Lethal weapon DD and DTS versions to each other?

As for your reply about demoing the scene with the car under the bridge, yeah, thats a pretty intense scene....you can hear that wind whipping around you through the surround channels; its pretty cool. Still, no bass in the scene, or very little.

What is your LFE setting for Dts? I know that my setting are +0 for DD and +10 for Dts. While the bass isn't extremely deep, there is a great deal of bass between 30-50hz in all channels during the more intense scenes of the movie. By no means should be bass be weak, so I would check my settings.

[Lexmark3200]

What is your LFE setting for Dts? I know that my setting are +0 for DD and +10 for Dts. While the bass isn't extremely deep, there is a great deal of bass between 30-50hz in all channels during the more intense scenes of the movie. By no means should be bass be weak, so I would check my settings.

Perhaps that is what I was experiencing --- not weak bass per se, just not deep bass, which I was looking forward to after reading reviews about this DVD that claimed the tornadoes took on deep, gutteral growls of their own.

[kelsci]

Perhaps that is what I was experiencing --- not weak bass per se, just not deep bass, which I was looking forward to after reading reviews about this DVD that claimed the tornadoes took on deep, gutteral growls of their own.

Lex; I would follow his lordship's advice on that increase in bass that may be needed on the TWISTER DTS track. In my post, I could not remember whether it was plus or - l0db. It is plus l0db. Personally, this DTS-D.D. deal has created some "nuisances" that we have had to deal with. In my experiments, I am finding a few "things" going on between these two codecs and what may be an influence on them in imaging and bass. But that is another story for another day; MAYBE! KELSCI.

[dph1965]

without getting into all the banter regarding individual taste/listening habits, where is it recommended that DTS sub levels be set at +10db? By no means am I disputing this, just curious about the info. Can you give me a link or something? Thanks...
And like Lex, one of my favorite scenes is U-571 depth charges - I'm afraid to set my sub above +4 even...

[kelsci]

without getting into all the banter regarding individual taste/listening habits, where is it recommended that DTS sub levels be set at +10db? By no means am I disputing this, just curious about the info. Can you give me a link or something? Thanks...
And like Lex, one of my favorite scenes is U-571 depth charges - I'm afraid to set my sub above +4 even...

Dph1965; I am not the advocate or instigator of the +10 DB setting on the sub for DTS tracks. I think that his Lordship, Sir Terrance and a few other subwoofer advocates have indicated to do this with DTS tracks. Off the cuff, from what I have read or heard, the DTS LFE and bass response that was recorded on DTS movies required a l0 DB boost over D.D. settings because they were "recorded" for playback that way. To me, DTS has probably made a mess of things particulaly since most receivers do not allow you to make separate adjustements between the two tracks. DPH, I would do a discussion search on this forum on the top of this page. Hopefully, your question can be answered. Perhaps type in" l0 DB subwoofer" and see what that brings up. My sub set-up is two passive subs powered by a NAD 3040 int. amp's power amp section in conjunction with the sub output of my receiver. You can only play your subs "so loud" because if they are too loud, the stereo surround field is literally destroyed. I am pleased with my settings done by ear with everthing sounding in a more normal range on every soundtrack.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Dph1965; I am not the advocate or instigator of the +10 DB setting on the sub for DTS tracks. I think that his Lordship, Sir Terrance and a few other subwoofer advocates have indicated to do this with DTS tracks. Off the cuff, from what I have read or heard, the DTS LFE and bass response that was recorded on DTS movies required a l0 DB boost over D.D. settings because they were "recorded" for playback that way. To me, DTS has probably made a mess of things particulaly since most receivers do not allow you to make separate adjustements between the two tracks. DPH, I would do a discussion search on this forum on the top of this page. Hopefully, your question can be answered. Perhaps type in" l0 DB subwoofer" and see what that brings up. My sub set-up is two passive subs powered by a NAD 3040 int. amp's power amp section in conjunction with the sub output of my receiver. You can only play your subs "so loud" because if they are too loud, the stereo surround field is literally destroyed. I am pleased with my settings done by ear with everthing sounding in a more normal range on every soundtrack.

Kel,

I think things are getting confused here. The calibration of the sub, and the setting of the LFE levels are two distinctly different things.

The calibration of the sub involves setting the levels from the subwoofer level, utilizing the subs volume control. That should be set 3-5db higher than the main speakers.

Setting the LFE level involves going into the receivers menu and setting it according to your instruction manual. It is not the same thing as subwoofer calibration as it is done from the receiver, not the sub. I hope this clarifies things somewhat

[kelsci]

Kel,

I think things are getting confused here. The calibration of the sub, and the setting of the LFE levels are two distinctly different things.

The calibration of the sub involves setting the levels from the subwoofer level, utilizing the subs volume control. That should be set 3-5db higher than the main speakers.

Setting the LFE level involves going into the receivers menu and setting it according to your instruction manual. It is not the same thing as subwoofer calibration as it is done from the receiver, not the sub. I hope this clarifies things somewhat

Your Lordship; I use the system I spelled out in thread #28. I am satisfied with the way it performs. I have very little experience with powered subs per say that have the volume and bass intensity controls and as such I really give no advice nor go onto any threads involving subwoofers. This thread by Lex is the only case that reminded me of a possible solution to his problem that would make a possible altercation AT THE RECEIVERS SUB-OUT since it is easy to return to the orgininal setting. Because of your 2 above statements, I would be a fool to advise people on powered sub calibrations. Kelsci

[Lexmark3200]

Kel,

I think things are getting confused here. The calibration of the sub, and the setting of the LFE levels are two distinctly different things.

The calibration of the sub involves setting the levels from the subwoofer level, utilizing the subs volume control. That should be set 3-5db higher than the main speakers.

Setting the LFE level involves going into the receivers menu and setting it according to your instruction manual. It is not the same thing as subwoofer calibration as it is done from the receiver, not the sub. I hope this clarifies things somewhat

Wow, now I know Im lost, Terrence.....I was told before NOT TO TOUCH the subwoofer control on the rear of the subwoofer-----didnt you tell me that? What about the dB levels on the receiver's subwoofer calibration-----should THOSE be a couple of dBs higher than all other speakers?

[Lexmark3200]

without getting into all the banter regarding individual taste/listening habits, where is it recommended that DTS sub levels be set at +10db? By no means am I disputing this, just curious about the info. Can you give me a link or something? Thanks...
And like Lex, one of my favorite scenes is U-571 depth charges - I'm afraid to set my sub above +4 even...

I know what you mean about U-571....at "+6" the sub is already shaking apart during the depth charge sequences if the receiver is up to say 50 or so....if the calibration is above "+6" forget it....my 10" Polk cant handle it.....

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

without getting into all the banter regarding individual taste/listening habits, where is it recommended that DTS sub levels be set at +10db? By no means am I disputing this, just curious about the info. Can you give me a link or something? Thanks...
And like Lex, one of my favorite scenes is U-571 depth charges - I'm afraid to set my sub above +4 even...

I found the information in my owners manual of my receiver. The default position for Dts LFE was +0. My manual states " For correct LFE levels on Dts soundtracks adjust the LFE to +10db. For Dts music the correct LFE level is +0.".

Also read this thread on ecoustic forum that supports what I state.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/3/3746.html

Some receiver already do the compensation for the difference in LFE, and some do not. That is why I advise that you check your owners manual.