Vizio 50" gets rave review!

[Feanor]

WTF?!? The Vizio VP505XVT got a rave review in Playback online magazine. Although of course It's a plasma model.

One of these days I'm going to break down and get an HDTV.

[kexodusc]

That's weird...I read every word of my subscription to Playboy online magazine but I didn't see that article? What issue was it?

Feanor, what are you waiting for? IIRC, You are retired and free of serfdom, you have a defined benefit pension plan (I hope) and should be somewhat immune to the ass-kicking some of us are receiving right now...In the last 6 months you probably jumped up a few rungs on the socio-economic ladder. People look up to your wealth now. You have an example to set, nay, a responsibility to keep.

So get your hide to a store and buy a HDTV or projector. You want to be cool like us don't you?
You deserve it.

[Rich-n-Texas]

He has to dump all his money into upkeep on that 1990 Tarus station wagon.

[Feanor]

That's weird...I read every word of my subscription to Playboy online magazine but I didn't see that article? What issue was it?

Feanor, what are you waiting for? IIRC, You are retired and free of serfdom, you have a defined benefit pension plan (I hope) and should be somewhat immune to the ass-kicking some of us are receiving right now...In the last 6 months you probably jumped up a few rungs on the socio-economic ladder. People look up to your wealth now. You have an example to set, nay, a responsibility to keep.

So get your hide to a store and buy a HDTV or projector. You want to be cool like us don't you?
You deserve it.

... that's "PlayBACK" Magazine.

I'm not retire yet because my late-arrived kids are still in college and my wife was allergic to work through most of our marriage. (I do have a defined-benefit plan and benefits, though ) Ironically the one person in the house with an HDTV is my daughter, (the one whose fall semester cost me $11k), but it's in her room so Mom and I don't get to watch.

And I am a cheapskate. But I am really hoping one the CRTs dies 'cause when it does ...

[Rich-n-Texas]

... that's "PlayBACK" Magazine.
...

I saw that typo too.

[kexodusc]

... that's "PlayBACK" Magazine.

I'm not retire yet because my late-arrived kids are still in college and my wife was allergic to work through most of our marriage. (I do have a defined-benefit plan and benefits, though ) Ironically the one person in the house with an HDTV is my daughter, (the one whose fall semester cost me $11k), but it's in her room so Mom and I don't get to watch.

And I am a cheapskate. But I am really hoping one the CRTs dies 'cause when it does ...

LOL Just let your kids know the sacrifices you're making so when the finally move out to make their millions, they'll remember to pay you back with some techno-goodies.

[02audionoob]

I subscribe to Playback for the articles...really. I hardly notice the pictures.

[pixelthis]

OHHHH LOOK! My names at the top!

[LukeR]

Yeah, have the 42" XVT and was really excited to hear the 50" was finally coming. Looking at it for my game room, but not sure what I think now that I saw it was a plasma... Still great technology, I'm sure, but I definitely have a bias towards the LCD...

[Woochifer]

Specs look pretty good on paper, and that is a top flight video processor that Vizio has installed into that set. Not sure though if it has hit stores yet. I saw a 1080p Vizio plasma selling for the same price as the 50" Panasonic plasma that I got over the weekend, but I don't recall if it was the XVT model. I went with the Panny because it's now at a great price point, and their plasma models are consistently the most reliable in the industry (helps that they can maintain continuity from one model to another, something that a virtual company that relies on outsource partners, like Vizio, cannot do).

Over at the AVS Forum, I've read posts indicating that Vizio's outsource partner bought the glass panels from Panasonic, though it doesn't sound like they're using Panny's more advanced single pane design.

UPDATE: Vizio's website still says that this model is "coming soon." So, apparently the 50" 1080p plasma units I saw over at Costco selling for $1,400 are the ones that Vizio's trying to clear out before the XVT model arrives.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Woochifer]Specs look pretty good on paper, and that is a top flight video processor that Vizio has installed into that set. Not sure though if it has hit stores yet. I saw a 1080p Vizio plasma selling for the same price as the 50" Panasonic plasma that I got over the weekend, but I don't recall if it was the XVT model. I went with the Panny because it's now at a great price point, and their plasma models are consistently the most reliable in the industry (helps that they can maintain continuity from one model to another, something that a virtual company that relies on outsource partners, like Vizio, cannot do).




BULLHOCKY.
By "continuity" do you mean bland sameness?
My current Vizio has improvements, but its a Vizio like my last one, like the one my brother bought.
This is just more hype and slander against a fine company.
BTW saw a 120hz VIZIO with silver trim, looked simply amazing.
THEY KEEP their sets the "same" and they are not "innovative, make improvements and they "lack continuity".
MORE BS from the ...

[Woochifer]

BULLHOCKY.
By "continuity" do you mean bland sameness?
My current Vizio has improvements, but its a Vizio like my last one, like the one my brother bought.
This is just more hype and slander against a fine company.
BTW saw a 120hz VIZIO with silver trim, looked simply amazing.
THEY KEEP their sets the "same" and they are not "innovative, make improvements and they "lack continuity".
MORE BS from the ...

Nope, continuity as in continued best-in-class reliability (Panny ranks #2 in plasma reliability, and #1 in LCD reliability), and continual refinement of designs that already rank at or near the top of the industry in picture quality. Panny already produces the most reliable HDTVs on the market, and improves upon picture quality that already ranks among the industry leaders year after year. Just in the past year, they've upgraded nearly all of their plasma models to 1080p, extended the service life of their panels from 60,000 hours to 100,000 hours, increased the motion resolution to over 900 lines, designed a brand new anti-glare filter, introduced a new single-pane panel design, and increased the native contrast ratio to 30,000:1. That's hardly keeping things the "same." You should be happy about all these improvements given that Panny is supposedly supplying the plasma panels for the XVT series.

A Vizio like the last one?! Puleeze, you don't even know which outsource manufacturer they called up to make the latest batch of TVs! The nameplate might be the only thing your brother's set has in common with previous models.

The virtual company business model is to basically reinvent the wheel with every product revision. Of course, that might be a good thing given how poorly some of Vizio's previous HDTVs have performed in benchmark tests. Even though the XVT is a plasma like the previous Vizio 50" 1080p model, the internal electronics, panel manufacturer, and point of assembly might have all completely changed. Even if the XVT's performance is as good as the early reviews indicate, the verdict is still out on the reliability, especially if it comes off of a different assembly line using a brand new design.

With a more vertically integrated company like Samsung or Panasonic that has built up a reliability track record that dates back through several years and product revisions, a consumer will at least know that the latest model version used the same engineering team and came off the same assembly line as the previous ones.

Hype and slander? Nope, just reality and not the bizarro variety that your fanboy glasses seem to create.

[DetroitIrish]

Panny ranks #2 in plasma reliability, and #1 in LCD reliability

Wooch, any chance i can get a source link on this (or is it from the one in this forum) Not doubting you, just would like to have something on hand incase a good deal pops up on black friday, one with model #s would be a +


TYIA

[RoadRunner6]

Nope, continuity as in continued best-in-class reliability (Panny ranks #2 in plasma reliability, and #1 in LCD reliability), and continual refinement of designs that already rank at or near the top of the industry in picture quality. Panny already produces the most reliable HDTVs on the market, and improves upon picture quality that already ranks among the industry leaders year after year. Just in the past year, they've upgraded nearly all of their plasma models to 1080p, extended the service life of their panels from 60,000 hours to 100,000 hours, increased the motion resolution to over 900 lines, designed a brand new anti-glare filter, introduced a new single-pane panel design, and increased the native contrast ratio to 30,000:1. That's hardly keeping things the "same." You should be happy about all these improvements given that Panny is supposedly supplying the plasma panels for the XVT series.

A Vizio like the last one?! Puleeze, you don't even know which outsource manufacturer they called up to make the latest batch of TVs! The nameplate might be the only thing your brother's set has in common with previous models.

The virtual company business model is to basically reinvent the wheel with every product revision. Of course, that might be a good thing given how poorly some of Vizio's previous HDTVs have performed in benchmark tests. Even though the XVT is a plasma like the previous Vizio 50" 1080p model, the internal electronics, panel manufacturer, and point of assembly might have all completely changed. Even if the XVT's performance is as good as the early reviews indicate, the verdict is still out on the reliability, especially if it comes off of a different assembly line using a brand new design.

With a more vertically integrated company like Samsung or Panasonic that has built up a reliability track record that dates back through several years and product revisions, a consumer will at least know that the latest model version used the same engineering team and came off the same assembly line as the previous ones.

Hype and slander? Nope, just reality and not the bizarro variety that your fanboy glasses seem to create.

Pow, Pow, Pow !


RR6

[Woochifer]

Wooch, any chance i can get a source link on this (or is it from the one in this forum) Not doubting you, just would like to have something on hand incase a good deal pops up on black friday, one with model #s would be a +


TYIA

This was from the Consumer Reports reliability survey. Their rankings cover a three-year timeframe and use a very large sample size of about 75,000 responses. But, they don't list things out model by model. If I can track down the issue where this info was posted, I'll post it.

[DetroitIrish]

I think there was one stickied on here somewhere, was looking for something a little more current thou

[pixelthis]

Nope, continuity as in continued best-in-class reliability (Panny ranks #2 in plasma reliability, and #1 in LCD reliability), and continual refinement of designs that already rank at or near the top of the industry in picture quality. Panny already produces the most reliable HDTVs on the market, and improves upon picture quality that already ranks among the industry leaders year after year. Just in the past year, they've upgraded nearly all of their plasma models to 1080p, extended the service life of their panels from 60,000 hours to 100,000 hours, increased the motion resolution to over 900 lines, designed a brand new anti-glare filter, introduced a new single-pane panel design, and increased the native contrast ratio to 30,000:1. That's hardly keeping things the "same." You should be happy about all these improvements given that Panny is supposedly supplying the plasma panels for the XVT series.

This is what I am talking about, Panasonic has been around forever,
I think God created it on the eighth day, I myself have a 25 yr old
Panny LED clock radio and TWO Technics turntables, both over twenty years old.
Vizio is a new company, and like a lot of new companies outsource a great deal, companies like OUTLAW, whose new pre-pro is pure
Sherwood, etc.
By insinuating that VIZIO is the sole perveyor of what is common business practice is slander of the worst sort

A Vizio like the last one?! Puleeze, you don't even know which outsource manufacturer they called up to make the latest batch of TVs! The nameplate might be the only thing your brother's set has in common with previous models.

LIKE YOU KNOW THE MANUFACTURERS of Parts in your new Panny, if you dont think Panny
outsources then you are dumber then I give you credit for

The virtual company business model is to basically reinvent the wheel with every product revision. Of course, that might be a good thing given how poorly some of Vizio's previous HDTVs have performed in benchmark tests. Even though the XVT is a plasma like the previous Vizio 50" 1080p model, the internal electronics, panel manufacturer, and point of assembly might have all completely changed. Even if the XVT's performance is as good as the early reviews indicate, the verdict is still out on the reliability, especially if it comes off of a different assembly line using a brand new design.

And what have you been smoking?
Once production is finalized it costs millions to change even the most minor thing, and the profit margins on electronics is slim enough
as it is.
As for "the verdict" being out on reliability that is true of any
new model of any new product.
My brother bought a new four head VCR in the mid eighties,
had all of the bells and whistles, and fell apart in six months.
It was a Panasonic BTW

With a more vertically integrated company like Samsung or Panasonic that has built up a reliability track record that dates back through several years and product revisions, a consumer will at least know that the latest model version used the same engineering team and came off the same assembly line as the previous ones.

YOU OUGHT to stick to cooking the books for the govt because you
know nothing about modern production methods.
A shiny new MERCEDES factory sits about twenty miles away from me.
This company has been around a century.
Who designed and built their factory?
MITSHUBISHI.
Who is the design firm that designs Bang and Olson?
Dont know but they re based in California.
And so on and so on.
YOU have no idea as to where Matshuhita (parent of Panasonic)
designed their latest set, you do know a good deal of engineering
and tech support for Japan comes from Tawain, dont you?
Or do you know anything
Not that where its built has anything to do with the quality of a product
in a global economy

Hype and slander? Nope, just reality and not the bizarro variety that your fanboy glasses seem to create.

WHAT do you know about "reality"?
Back in the day if you wanted "reliability" you went with a Panasonic,
and they are still known for that.
But if you wanted performance you went with Sony.
BUT THINGS have changed, and a lot of "economy" TV's and monitors
are built from the same parts, and sometimes from the same factory,
as the "majors".
They just save a ton on advertising , is all.
Milwalkees best is from the same vat as Miller, KEYSTONE from the same vat as Coors, but cheaper because of marketing.
Truth is you wont know where your set will come from, and all of the premutations it will go through to get to you.
Most sets are built in the same factories, by the same people.
A Panny I HAD SEVEN YEARS ago had a menu system that is the same as the one on the new Olevias, Onkyo DVD player has the same menus as
on a Toshiba DVD player.
SO WHATS YOUR POINT?
My point is that you basically paid for a "name" , truth is, except for that name there isnt much diff between a Panny and a Vizio.
You prove my point when you state that the panel from the new Vizio is from panasonic(Matshuhita).
Makes you feel better to have a "name" like some magical talisman
on the front of your set, fine, but that is all it is.
In todays hypercompetitive market TVs' are becoming increasingly
harder to tell apart.
I like to go to the store and try to figure out which different brands came from which single factory.
Fact is most of your "panny" came from teh same place as most any other TV

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=RoadRunner6]Pow, Pow, Pow !


What is that?
The sound of your new TV blowing a high voltage rectifier?

[Woochifer]

By insinuating that VIZIO is the sole perveyor of what is common business practice is slander of the worst sort

Never implied or stated otherwise. I am stating that outsourcing the manufacturing means you get zero continuity from one model to another. If you like what Vizio delivered with one particular model, you won't necessarily get the same performance and/or reliability with the successor model because you don't know who Vizio will contract with to design and build it.

LIKE YOU KNOW THE MANUFACTURERS of Parts in your new Panny, if you dont think Panny
outsources then you are dumber then I give you credit for

I know that Panasonic owns and operates their plants, does the R&D work on their panels, and that this year's plasma models are built in the same facilities that produced the reliable models from last year and the year before. Can't say the same thing about Vizio, now can you?

And what have you been smoking?
Once production is finalized it costs millions to change even the most minor thing, and the profit margins on electronics is slim enough
as it is.
As for "the verdict" being out on reliability that is true of any
new model of any new product.
My brother bought a new four head VCR in the mid eighties,
had all of the bells and whistles, and fell apart in six months.
It was a Panasonic BTW

Let's see, Panasonic HDTVs built in the last three years rank at the top of the industry for reliability, using a survey sample of 75,000 responses, and your only retort is a broken VCR from more than 20 years ago?!

I don't smoke, but your fleeting grasp of reality says otherwise for you.

YOU OUGHT to stick to cooking the books for the govt because you
know nothing about modern production methods.
A shiny new MERCEDES factory sits about twenty miles away from me.
This company has been around a century.
Who designed and built their factory?
MITSHUBISHI.

Let's see, who owns the factory? Mercedes
Who operates the factory? Mercedes
Who does the R&D on the vehicle? Mercedes
Who designs the major components? Mercedes
Who builds the major components? Mercedes
Who trains the workers? Mercedes
Who handles the customer support for vehicles built at that factory? Mercedes

This is the SAME business model used by Panasonic and Samsung, who are the global leaders in the plasma and LCD markets, and produce HDTVs ranked near the top for both reliability and performance.

Ask these same questions of Vizio, and the response to every question is "SOMEONE ELSE"! Vizio owns nothing, Vizio builds nothing, Vizio does R&D on nothing, and Vizio does none of their own customer support. Their 100 or so employees are nearly all assigned to marketing and financing.

YOU have no idea as to where Matshuhita (parent of Panasonic)
designed their latest set, you do know a good deal of engineering
and tech support for Japan comes from Tawain, dont you?
Or do you know anything
Not that where its built has anything to do with the quality of a product
in a global economy

Has nothing to do with geography. Has everything to do with the degree of control over the design and manufacturing process. Vizio signs outsourcing contracts and cedes control over the design and manufacturing process to whatever partner they're using this time around. Panasonic owns its own facilities, and they design their own sets from the ground up. They do outsource manufacturing for other companies like Denon and Yamaha, because they have the manufacturing and R&D capacity. Doesn't matter if the engineers are in Japan or Taiwan -- they work for Panasonic.

Oh and BTW, the parent company has been officially called Panasonic for more than a year. As usual, your information's half-baked and about a decade old.

WHAT do you know about "reality"?
Back in the day if you wanted "reliability" you went with a Panasonic,
and they are still known for that.
But if you wanted performance you went with Sony.
BUT THINGS have changed, and a lot of "economy" TV's and monitors
are built from the same parts, and sometimes from the same factory,
as the "majors".

BS. There's a whole network of fabrication facilities throughout Asia that primarily supply the low end vendors. Panasonic, Samsung, and LG might sell display panels to other manufacturers, but they don't spec the rest of the TV or do the final fabrication on low end sets.

My point is that you basically paid for a "name" , truth is, except for that name there isnt much diff between a Panny and a Vizio.
You prove my point when you state that the panel from the new Vizio is from panasonic(Matshuhita).

Actually, I paid for a TV that was designed and built by the company whose name is on the faceplate. You're the one that actually paid for the name, since nothing underneath that fascia was actually designed and built by Vizio. And in the differences that count, the Pannys have consistently outperformed the Vizios, no matter who has been producing the current models.

That new Vizio XVT might use a Panasonic panel, but the rest of the TV was designed and built by somebody else. And until those sets are out in the open, nobody has any idea of how reliable those sets will be. Consumer Reports specifically indicated in one of their issues that Vizio has had big variations in their TV reliability between different models. Some models were reliable, while others had big problems. That pretty much sums up the downside of the virtual company model.

Makes you feel better to have a "name" like some magical talisman
on the front of your set, fine, but that is all it is.
In todays hypercompetitive market TVs' are becoming increasingly
harder to tell apart.
I like to go to the store and try to figure out which different brands came from which single factory.
Fact is most of your "panny" came from teh same place as most any other TV

[pixelthis]

Never implied or stated otherwise. I am stating that outsourcing the manufacturing means you get zero continuity from one model to another. If you like what Vizio delivered with one particular model, you won't necessarily get the same performance and/or reliability with the successor model because you don't know who Vizio will contract with to design and build it.

I didnt get the same, I got EVEN BETTER

I know that Panasonic owns and operates their plants, does the R&D work on their panels, and that this year's plasma models are built in the same facilities that produced the reliable models from last year and the year before. Can't say the same thing about Vizio, now can you?

no, YOU THINK THAT.
You really have no clue as to where the sets are built, or where the actual parts are fabricated.
Panasonic has an exelent record for reliability, true, which doesnt say anything about how they build their sets

Let's see, Panasonic HDTVs built in the last three years rank at the top of the industry for reliability, using a survey sample of 75,000 responses, and your only retort is a broken VCR from more than 20 years ago?!

just pointing out that evereybody has a bad day.
For instance, MATSHUHITA made a major goof a few years ago, went heavy into plasma panels, in other words they guessed wrong.
Now they are trying to make up for that mistake by pushing plasma
with a fierice effort and an AD campaing that amounts to propaganda, mostly.
Should get a job with them, you're good at spinning the truth

I don't smoke, but your fleeting grasp of reality says otherwise for you.

AT least I have some grasp of reality.
HERES "reality" for you, some great show or once in a lifetime event you're missing out on because you guessed wrong on the type display you would get

Let's see, who owns the factory? Mercedes

mostly

Who operates the factory? Mercedes

got that one right

Who does the R&D on the vehicle? Mercedes

All German car companies share R&D

Who designs the major components? Mercedes

NOT EVEN CLOSE

Who builds the major components? Mercedes

wHO BUILDS em? A LOT OF COMPANIES scattered throughout the Alabama countryside.
The plant is mostly final assembly

Who trains the workers? Mercedes

EHHHH! Alabama job corp, the U OF A, and a whole plethoria of various trade schools

Who handles the customer support for vehicles built at that factory? Mercedes

The paperwork mostly

This is the SAME business model used by Panasonic and Samsung, who are the global leaders in the plasma and LCD markets, and produce HDTVs ranked near the top for both reliability and performance.

Samsung is a kOREAN company, and quite often shares product with
both LG and SANYO.
A lot of "badge" engineering going on in south Korea

Ask these same questions of Vizio, and the response to every question is "SOMEONE ELSE"! Vizio owns nothing, Vizio builds nothing, Vizio does R&D on nothing, and Vizio does none of their own customer support. Their 100 or so employees are nearly all assigned to marketing and financing.

AND this is the case for a lot of modern companies.
YOU STILL HAVENT EXPLAINED why its a bad thing

Has nothing to do with geography. Has everything to do with the degree of control over the design and manufacturing process. Vizio signs outsourcing contracts and cedes control over the design and manufacturing process to whatever partner they're using this time around. Panasonic owns its own facilities, and they design their own sets from the ground up. They do outsource manufacturing for other companies like Denon and Yamaha, because they have the manufacturing and R&D capacity. Doesn't matter if the engineers are in Japan or Taiwan -- they work for Panasonic.

AND VIZIOS engineers , etc work for THEM.
And turn out some really nice sets, BTW

Oh and BTW, the parent company has been officially called Panasonic for more than a year. As usual, your information's half-baked and about a decade old.

WHO cares what they call it? Just trading on the Panny name is all

BS. There's a whole network of fabrication facilities throughout Asia that primarily supply the low end vendors. Panasonic, Samsung, and LG might sell display panels to other manufacturers, but they don't spec the rest of the TV or do the final fabrication on low end sets.

you have no idea.
I used to work in a videotape plant, made video tape for everybody
all was the same, just put in different boxes.
Same with a lot of products these days, truth is you dont know.

Actually, I paid for a TV that was designed and built by the company whose name is on the faceplate. You're the one that actually paid for the name, since nothing underneath that fascia was actually designed and built by Vizio. And in the differences that count, the Pannys have consistently outperformed the Vizios, no matter who has been producing the current models.

Still doesnt explain where it was designed or built.
The label might say Japan but that is probably final assembly.
Truth is you will never know

That new Vizio XVT might use a Panasonic panel, but the rest of the TV was designed and built by somebody else. And until those sets are out in the open, nobody has any idea of how reliable those sets will be. Consumer Reports specifically indicated in one of their issues that Vizio has had big variations in their TV reliability between different models. Some models were reliable, while others had big problems. That pretty much sums up the downside of the virtual company model.

Designed and built by Vizio using accepted business practices.
Go back to cooking books for the govt, help create more of the current mess we're in.

[RoadRunner6]

It gets even worse. As stated by RoadRunner in his excellent thread titled "LCD is Dead" he states from a report:

".....It was futha noted that LCD's from the Vizio LCD manufacturing company had several times stronger concentration of the nitrogen trifluoride cleaning fluid due to the fact that Vizio contracts their parts from a supplier in Detroit....."

DETROIT!, oh my God! No wonder they fall apart so quickly.

RR6

[Woochifer]

I didnt get the same, I got EVEN BETTER

Better, as in better luck that the model you bought had a better reliability record than the other model that had a worse record?

no, YOU THINK THAT.
You really have no clue as to where the sets are built, or where the actual parts are fabricated.
Panasonic has an exelent record for reliability, true, which doesnt say anything about how they build their sets

Oh puhleez. The only person who doesn't have a clue as to who builds their TV is someone who buys from a virtual company whose primary function is marketing and outsourcing.

Panasonic has a global network of fabrication, R&D, and distribution facilities. They do their own panel manufacturing, R&D, and fabrication.

just pointing out that evereybody has a bad day.
For instance, MATSHUHITA made a major goof a few years ago, went heavy into plasma panels, in other words they guessed wrong.
Now they are trying to make up for that mistake by pushing plasma
with a fierice effort and an AD campaing that amounts to propaganda, mostly.
Should get a job with them, you're good at spinning the truth

Right, a bad product made over 20 years ago?

Panasonic's plasma division is profitable and growing. And it's not truth spinning if their sets consistently rank among the top of the industry in both reliability and performance. Some wrong guess. Oh and BTW, Panasonic also makes LCD TVs in case you didn't know.

Vizio should be paying you for all the shilling you do on their behalf, but if anything, I doubt that Vizio would want their products associated with the cluelessness and outright lies that you push.

[QUOTE=pixelthis]AT least I have some grasp of reality.[/QUOTE[

HERES "reality" for you, some great show or once in a lifetime event you're missing out on because you guessed wrong on the type display you would get

mostly


got that one right


All German car companies share R&D



NOT EVEN CLOSE



wHO BUILDS em? A LOT OF COMPANIES scattered throughout the Alabama countryside.
The plant is mostly final assembly


EHHHH! Alabama job corp, the U OF A, and a whole plethoria of various trade schools



The paperwork mostly

And how many of these functions are handled by Vizio thru their business model? NONE!

Samsung is a kOREAN company, and quite often shares product with
both LG and SANYO.
A lot of "badge" engineering going on in south Korea

Oh really? Which products are Samsung and LG cross-badging? Those companies are fierce competitors, with huge work forces and manufacturing capacity. Both of them are OEM suppliers to other companies, but not to each other.

AND this is the case for a lot of modern companies.
YOU STILL HAVENT EXPLAINED why its a bad thing

Already explained plenty of times why an outsource model creates inconsistent reliability and product performance. As usual, your reading comprehension eludes you.

AND VIZIOS engineers , etc work for THEM.
And turn out some really nice sets, BTW

How many engineers out of their 100 or so employees?

WHO cares what they call it? Just trading on the Panny name is all

You apparently do because you keep referring to Matsush*ta as Panasonic's parent company, as if that somehow lends credibility to your otherwise fraudulent rants.

you have no idea.
I used to work in a videotape plant, made video tape for everybody
all was the same, just put in different boxes.
Same with a lot of products these days, truth is you dont know.

Videotape? VIDEOTAPE?! We're talking about how HDTVs are manufactured, not your days scrubbing toilets in some plant cafeteria!

Truth is that working in a videotape plant has zero relevance to what you know (or more appropriately, don't know) about how HDTVs are CURRENTLY made.

Still doesnt explain where it was designed or built.
The label might say Japan but that is probably final assembly.
Truth is you will never know

Panasonic's business practices and plant operations are public record because they are a publicly traded company, and they issue press releases whenever they open a new plant or otherwise expand capacity. They make their own panels, that's a fact. They own and operate the fabrication facilities, that's also fact. They employ over 300,000 workers, and operate R&D facilities all over the world -- that's fact.

Fact is that Vizio operates none of its own manufacturing lines, and does none of its own R&D, which makes your grasping at straws in the next line all the more laughable!

Designed and built by Vizio using accepted business practices.

[pixelthis]

Oh puhleez. The only person who doesn't have a clue as to who builds their TV is someone who buys from a virtual company whose primary function is marketing and outsourcing.

Keep on sleeping, clueless

Panasonic has a global network of fabrication, R&D, and distribution facilities. They do their own panel manufacturing, R&D, and fabrication.

Of course they do.
AND VIZIO, which has none of this overhead, is one of their biggest competitors

Panasonic's plasma division is profitable and growing. And it's not truth spinning if their sets consistently rank among the top of the industry in both reliability and performance. Some wrong guess. Oh and BTW, Panasonic also makes LCD TVs in case you didn't know.

Panasonic sets are good, but that doesnt change the fact that they made a huge error investing so heavily in plasma, something you will find out the hard way

Vizio should be paying you for all the shilling you do on their behalf, but if anything, I doubt that Vizio would want their products associated with the cluelessness and outright lies that you push.

Just your opinion and slander, doesnt mean anything, like everything else you say

And how many of these functions are handled by Vizio thru their business model? NONE!

All of them are, the sets are in the stores, are they not?

Oh really? Which products are Samsung and LG cross-badging? Those companies are fierce competitors, with huge work forces and manufacturing capacity. Both of them are OEM suppliers to other companies, but not to each other.

A "one post wonder" posted awhile back, couldnt decide between an LG or SAMSUNG HTIB, which he was getting in a package deal with his new TV.
When I POINTED OUT that they were the same he didnt beleive me(same wattage, speakers, features, price).
Basically the same item , with different names on them.
The South Korean industry is too young not to work together to harness resources more efficently.
Like the Japanese. Or the Tawainese. Or HONG KONG.
OR JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE

Already explained plenty of times why an outsource model creates inconsistent reliability and product performance. As usual, your reading comprehension eludes you.

again THAT IS JUST YOUR OPINION.
And opinions are like a**holes, everynodies got one and most stink,
incl yours.
EVERYBODY , from Outlaw to Vizio to Sony to Panasonic "outsources"
Outlaw doesnt build a damn thing either.
Plenty of parts on your "panny" came from somewhere else, the fact that PANASONIC IS SO BIG increases the probability that outsourceing occured

You apparently do because you keep referring to Matsush*ta as Panasonic's parent company, as if that somehow lends credibility to your otherwise fraudulent rants.

It is a parent company, they may call it panasonic, doesnt make a bit of difference

Videotape? VIDEOTAPE?! We're talking about how HDTVs are manufactured, not your days scrubbing toilets in some plant cafeteria!

In other words I am right, you know I am right, and cant think of anything to counter except an insult.
This is common pratice in modern industry, and I would say you know it except that you apparently dont, like you dont know much of anything

Truth is that working in a videotape plant has zero relevance to what you know (or more appropriately, don't know) about how HDTVs are CURRENTLY made.

Which is more than you know.
Which aint saying much, a Hamster knows more than you

Panasonic's business practices and plant operations are public record because they are a publicly traded company, and they issue press releases whenever they open a new plant or otherwise expand capacity. They make their own panels, that's a fact. They own and operate the fabrication facilities, that's also fact. They employ over 300,000 workers, and operate R&D facilities all over the world -- that's fact.

And has no relevance whatsoever

Fact is that Vizio operates none of its own manufacturing lines, and does none of its own R&D, which makes your grasping at straws in the next line all the more laughable!

AND the fact that a lot of companies operate this way continues to elude YOU


kEEP PRATTLING, you've wasted enough of my time.
I will have the last laugh a few years down the road (or even sooner)
when that new toy of yours turns into a paperweight.
Panny makes good stuff, but not even they can get a flawed tech to work properly

[Woochifer]

Keep on sleeping, clueless

Clueless? You don't even know the first thing about this company, yet you invest your entire fanboy portfolio into their Ponzi scheme!

Of course they do.
AND VIZIO, which has none of this overhead, is one of their biggest competitors

Vizio also does not reap the rewards from having more of the value added revenue flowing into its coffers. Hard to be a high margin company when most of their employees work in marketing and accounting, and most of the high value-added activity is done by others.

Panasonic gets its revenue from multiple sources, and having their own manufacturing capacity also means that they are the ones that perform outsource manufacturing for others, not the other way around. Either way, they've invested more and if those investments pay off, they get more in return.

Panasonic sets are good, but that doesnt change the fact that they made a huge error investing so heavily in plasma, something you will find out the hard way

Just your opinion and slander, doesnt mean anything, like everything else you say

Nope, just the simple truth. Your uninformed fanboy rants certainly aren't doing your precious Vizio any favors.

All of them are, the sets are in the stores, are they not?

Designed by somebody else, built by somebody else, distributed by somebody else, supported by somebody else. Yet, you claim that Vizio does ALL of that? Your lies are getting shallower than the yellow water in the kiddie pool!

"one post wonder" posted awhile back, couldnt decide between an LG or SAMSUNG HTIB, which he was getting in a package deal with his new TV.
When I POINTED OUT that they were the same he didnt beleive me(same wattage, speakers, features, price).
Basically the same item , with different names on them.

And what does a HTIB have to do with cross badging on a HDTV (or lack thereof)? Like the dangers of mixing meds with alcohol, you shouldn't mix your metaphors either.

The South Korean industry is too young not to work together to harness resources more efficently.

With HDTVs, LG and Samsung don't need to collaborate, and they don't, except on global standards bodies that all of the CE giants participate in. They are the top two OEM vendors in the world for LCD screens. These are formidable global competitors, yet you still have this perception that they're still in some embryonic stage. I suppose now you're going to tell your Goldstar VCR story for umpteenth time?

Samsung went into that joint venture with Sony primarily because Sony was falling behind technologically and could no longer keep up with LCD technology. Samsung is the senior partner in that collaboration, and without them, Sony would be dead in the water in the flat panel market.

again THAT IS JUST YOUR OPINION.
And opinions are like a**holes, everynodies got one and most stink,
incl yours.

Thanks for sharing your butt sniffing fetish with us. So, what does this have to do with HDTVs?

EVERYBODY , from Outlaw to Vizio to Sony to Panasonic "outsources"
Outlaw doesnt build a damn thing either.

But, Outlaw maintains a much greater degree of control over the design process than Vizio does. Vizio has primarily used off-the-shelf designs sold by outsource manufacturers. The XVT series at least shows some degree of customization that they're incorporating into an otherwise generic design.

Plenty of parts on your "panny" came from somewhere else, the fact that PANASONIC IS SO BIG increases the probability that outsourceing occured

Yes, but the design is done in-house by Panasonic's engineering team, which is the key difference with Vizio. The major component, the panel, is built by Panasonic, and the final fabrication, distribution, and customer support, are all handled by subsidiaries owned by Panasonic. More control over the design and manufacturing process means more consistency and product continuity. The bane of the virtual business model is the inconsistency from one product to another. Consumer Reports reliability survey found these inconsistencies with the Vizios, and that's a direct outcome of how they design, procure, and build their TVs -- one good product run does not equate to a good product run the next time around.

In other words I am right, you know I am right, and cant think of anything to counter except an insult.

This is common pratice in modern industry, and I would say you know it except that you apparently dont, like you dont know much of anything

Blah blah blah. I see that you're still under the delusion that you're always right about everything!

And has no relevance whatsoever

Only a blindly delusional Vizio fanboy would believe something this ... oh that's right, I'm talking with one!

AND the fact that a lot of companies operate this way continues to elude YOU

And yet, the most reliable HDTVs on the market are built by companies that do not outsource the major components and do the final fabrication themselves.

kEEP PRATTLING, you've wasted enough of my time.
I will have the last laugh a few years down the road (or even sooner)
when that new toy of yours turns into a paperweight.

Actually, the odds on your Vizio turning into a paperweight are about 3X greater than with a Panny. Also, the new Panny, Samsung, and LG plasmas are all rated for 100,000 hours. Talk to me in about 30 years.

Panny makes good stuff, but not even they can get a flawed tech to work properly

Flawed tech? Yeah, I guess that's why plasmas consistently score the highest on picture quality evaluations.

Hell, even William Wang (the founder of Vizio) had this to say about plasma in a magazine interview last year: We sell both plasma and LCD screens. I personally think plasma is better technology and picture quality

D'OH! The drama builds ... will pix now be forced to willfully disown his spiritual leader? For all the time he has spent bending over in front of his homemade Vizio shrine, can he possibly keep those fanboy lenses polished knowing that his LCD partner swings both ways (and even prefers plasma)? Should be fun to see you climb out of this hole -- here's a shovel!

[GMichael]

You guys are killing me. This is some funny chit. Like Abbott and Costello all over again.

Wooch, he won't use that shovel. A 3rd generation, pretzel logic, word twister is his tool of choice.