to upscale or not to upscale ?

[edtyct]

CRTs and LCoS are the only technologies that belong in a pro context. Do you guys use the Sony PVM-20L5 monitors in the studio? You really should have an open house so that people can see how good TV can look when attention is paid to the right details. Once people actually see HD, they have trouble resisting it. When enough people see how good HD, or anything else, can look with a properly driven monitor, maybe we can actually raise the bar.

[edtyct]

In rely to Supamike, it's not a huge deal, but the simplest signal path is generally the best one. Going directly to the monitor eliminates a certain potential for signal degradation or failure, though, unless an intermediary stage is really faulty, a digital connection isn't in as much jeopardy as an analog one. Receivers are relatively new to the HDMI game; TVs and DVD players beat them to the punch. The main point of HDMI is HDCP copy protection, but a happy by-product is that digital video can measure and look sharper than analog component. But sending HDMI audio to a TV makes little sense in the long run, since TVs don't do audio. The earliest version of HDMI managed only two channels, anyway, meaning that most people treated HDMI like DVI, running separate coaxial or optical cables to their sound systems from the source. Receivers and pre/pros with HDMI capability can make the connection a lot more valuable by cutting out the need for a separate audio cable, although sometimes HDMI still sends two-channel audio in multichannel contexts through a switcher connected to certain displays. If the handshake sends the wrong info, HDMI can fail to deliver what's expected (kind of like freemasons shaking hands the wrong way).

[Supamike]

Thanks... that helps. I'm not trying to hijack this post, it's just that I'm saving for a receiver and speakers right now (since folks here talked me out of the HTIB), and I'm just trying to get my arms around it all before I make a purchase. I've been told "HDMI is a must have", "HDMI is immature and isn't worth it", "you won't notice the difference between DVI and HDMI", "THX says a lot about receiver quality", "THX is a marketing gimmick"... and so on. Right now, HDMI means nothing to me since my TV doesn't have an HDMI port. However, I plan to purchase an HDTV set within the next 1-2 years, so I don't know whether to plan for the future, build for the present, wait another year, or what. lol! I think buying a car is easier...

[GMichael]

So, um, was upconverting good or no? I think I missed the answer.

[edtyct]

So, um, was upconverting good or no? I think I missed the answer.

GM, you got me as the booby prize again. The answer flew by you because it's yet another of those pesky contingencies. Most of us agree that an HDMI video connection stands a good chance to be the sharpest and least noisy option, especially for microdisplays. The caveat is that HDMI audio doesn't always cooperate or have an outlet, requiring a separate audio connection for HDMI sources--that is, unless the component in question doesn't allow one (a rarity)--and every so often the video handshake has been known to fail out of the box between a source and its target. I've experienced firsthand lots of HDMI and DVI connections, and never had a video problem. All in all, I wouldn't let the possible glitches deter me from an HDMI DVD player right now if, like wordsmith, I wanted to make sure that I left no stone unturned for PQ. I might think twice about an HDMI receiver or pre/pro because of problems like those documented in another thread, unless I were satisfied with an analog workaround if the video switching failed for some reason or if I didn't mind using analog connections for audio that HDMI can't pick up in its current version. By the time HDMI 1.3 arrives, we'll all have HDMIdentities, at least until the next connection supervenes.

[GMichael]

GM, you got me as the booby prize again. The answer flew by you because it's yet another of those pesky contingencies. Most of us agree that an HDMI video connection stands a good chance to be the sharpest and least noisy option, especially for microdisplays. The caveat is that HDMI audio doesn't always cooperate or have an outlet, requiring a separate audio connection for HDMI sources--that is, unless the component in question doesn't allow one (a rarity)--and every so often the video handshake has been known to fail out of the box between a source and its target. I've experienced firsthand lots of HDMI and DVI connections, and never had a video problem. All in all, I wouldn't let the possible glitches deter me from an HDMI DVD player right now if, like wordsmith, I wanted to make sure that I left no stone unturned for PQ. I might think twice about an HDMI receiver or pre/pro because of problems like those documented in another thread, unless I were satisfied with an analog workaround if the video switching failed for some reason or if I didn't mind using analog connections for audio that HDMI can't pick up in its current version. By the time HDMI 1.3 arrives, we'll all have HDMIdentities, at least until the next connection supervenes.

Is upscaling tied to HDMI?

The reason for me being interested is that I am looking at the Sanyo Z4 projectors (if I don't change my mind by summer). The main knock they seem to have is that they don't upscale very well and most suggest another unit to upscale and then send 720p to it.

First, is upscaling any good at all.
Second, do you need HDMI cables to send 720p?

[edtyct]

Yeah, DVD upscaling is tied to HDMI or DVI. It can be just what the doctor ordered in cases like yours, when the projector or display can't meets its own scaling requirements adequately. A player (or any other device) that upscales to the precise resolution of the display--say, 720 or 1080--is in the best position. Scaling to 720 for a display at 768 still leaves work for the display to do, but still may be worthwhile. External upscaling should be regarded as only an option, not a necessity, but it is often the better option, even if the DVD player isn't particularly expensive. It isn't foolproof (nothing is), but it usually comes out ahead, even if the difference in many cases isn't earthshattering. You'll need an HDMI cable. If you keep it as short as possible, you may not have to spend much more than $20 on it. Incidentally, the only reason why players don't upscale through component is because of an agreement with source providers that it only be done through digital copy protection.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

CRTs and LCoS are the only technologies that belong in a pro context. Do you guys use the Sony PVM-20L5 monitors in the studio? You really should have an open house so that people can see how good TV can look when attention is paid to the right details. Once people actually see HD, they have trouble resisting it. When enough people see how good HD, or anything else, can look with a properly driven monitor, maybe we can actually raise the bar.

Ed,
I might in the future do an open house for HDTV demonstrations, however the station is undergoing major infrastucture upgrading to HD and HD audio formats, displays and fiber optics that it is probably too dangerous to have one now.

We primarly use the Sony LMD 210S which is the upgraded model to the PVM-20L5 monitor. We are pretty much going flat panel these days, and the LMD can do everything the PVM can do, and takes up less space.

[wordsmith]

Just to add my experience.
I am using a Denon 1920 upconverting to 720p on an Epson TW600 - using the HDMI connection of course.
And it blows the component input clean out of the water!
This is a really involving image, with the amazing contrast of 5000:1 delivered by the Epson.
I upgraded from an Epson TW200 - and when I did I had to get a bigger screen. (My projection distance is about 7 metres onto a screen 2.8m wide). No real apparent difference between the 720p and the 1080i (except the image has to be even bigger).
Until HD really gets sorted out - and the discs come down to a reasonable price - this seems about as good as it'll get for some time without having a lot of hassle and costing very serious money.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Just to add my experience.
I am using a Denon 1920 upconverting to 720p on an Epson TW600 - using the HDMI connection of course.
And it blows the component input clean out of the water!
This is a really involving image, with the amazing contrast of 5000:1 delivered by the Epson.
I.

That contrast ratio is more like 1000:1 not 5000:1. I know of no LCD based panel or projectors that come anywhere near 5000:1. Not even the Sony Qualia does.

[GMichael]

That contrast ratio is more like 1000:1 not 5000:1. I know of no LCD based panel or projectors that come anywhere near 5000:1. Not even the Sony Qualia does.

Do any of these count?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/part...xp=1&x=22&y=14

[edtyct]

Those high contrast numbers, you'll notice, are "full on/full off," which is the mfgr-friendly way to measure them. It means the difference between an all-dark screen and a peak-white screen. But that kind of measurement has little real-world value. Most dark images have to share space with a little light. With LCDs, a little illumination goes a long way. The bright part of the picture infects the darker part, bringing up its black level, often considerably. When contrast is measured on test screens that take this important phenomenon into account, the ratio goes WAY down.

[GMichael]

So how do we find out the real numbers outside of a testing studio?