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  1. #1
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    upconverting dvd problem with 5.1 audio channel

    Hi,

    So i have lg dvx492H dvd player and it is connected with my lg sl8000 TV set via HDMI cabel.
    My problem is I cant get Dolby 5.1 audio Chanel from any DVD. Only 2.1 and 2.0 channels are available.
    I tried it with bit stream as well as with PCM audio output. I have also tried changing sampling frequency from 48khz to 96khz but with no luck.

    The reason i would like to have available 5.1 audio channel is sl8000 is equipped with srs tru surround and i would like to use it.
    Please don't argue that srs truesurround is not good because that is not the point of this question.

    So is no 5.1 audio channel via HDMI normal thing, and if it is how can i get 5.1 audio channel in my TV set, or is it a malfunction?

    THX in advnced

  2. #2
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    I don't think you can pass 5.1 digital audio to or through a TV set. Try connecting the DVD player directly (via either coax or toslink) to the receiver.

  3. #3
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    thank you for the replay.
    The thing is I don't have reciver or the home cinema system, but my TV set LG sl8000 have dd decoder so I think it should accept dd 5.1 audio.
    As I mentioned I would like to have dd 5.1 audio because TV has SRS truesurround which I would like to use as a supstent for home cinema system

  4. #4
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Dolby decoding is different than multi channel. The TV is doing what it's supposed to do. It recognizes the digital input and is outputting the only way it can, in 2.0. 2 speakers on a TV...

    As far as Dolby or SRS, the TV shouldn't have any issue outputting this if it's capable.

    I'm not familiar with your TV set, but I would be surprised if it's able to decode multi channel. You need a receiver, there's no way around it.

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    Well, i am begining to understand that I have understood some specificaton wrong.
    But just for clarification If SRS truesurround is a system/algoritam that is capable of reproducing 5 audio chanels on just two speakers creating lets call it virtual 5.1 audio

    and if my TV audio specificatiion list is as follows:

    Audio Output10W + 10W Speaker System1 Way 2 Speakers
    Dolby Digital Decoder Yes
    Surround System SRS Trussurond

    should it not then recive dd 5.1 audio and use SRS to create that virtual 5.1 effect?

    Thanks for makeing me undersand

  6. #6
    Forum Regular frahengeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iiggoorr
    Well, i am begining to understand that I have understood some specificaton wrong.
    But just for clarification If SRS truesurround is a system/algoritam that is capable of reproducing 5 audio chanels on just two speakers creating lets call it virtual 5.1 audio

    and if my TV audio specificatiion list is as follows:

    Audio Output10W + 10W Speaker System1 Way 2 Speakers
    Dolby Digital Decoder Yes
    Surround System SRS Trussurond

    should it not then recive dd 5.1 audio and use SRS to create that virtual 5.1 effect?

    Thanks for makeing me undersand
    I believe that your TV is capable of sending a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal to a receiver via the TV optical output. The Dolby Digital receiver will then send power to at least 5 different speakers as well as a signal for the subwoofer. The "surround" effect will depend on the placement of those 5 speakers.

    The SRS Trusurround will take the 5.1 signal and attempt to simulate the surround effect using just two speakers. However, SRS does not come remotely close to actual 5.1 surround.

    Hope this helps
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  7. #7
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frahengeo
    I believe that your TV is capable of sending a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal to a receiver via the TV optical output. The Dolby Digital receiver will then send power to at least 5 different speakers as well as a signal for the subwoofer. The "surround" effect will depend on the placement of those 5 speakers.

    The SRS Trusurround will take the 5.1 signal and attempt to simulate the surround effect using just two speakers. However, SRS does not come remotely close to actual 5.1 surround.

    Hope this helps
    Every TV I have ever seen has a digital output for the tuner only.
    SRS works on two channels, it creates an effect that seems like suround,
    but isnt.
    I had a similar effect from a computer sound card once, kinda weird having sound come from nowhere, and Bose has beed peddeling their version for years.
    It will work, but so does a bike, dont wanna ride one to work ten miles every day.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by frahengeo
    The SRS Trusurround will take the 5.1 signal and attempt to simulate the surround effect using just two speakers. However, SRS does not come remotely close to actual 5.1 surround.
    Hope this helps
    This is helpful in a way that it confirms my theory which is that the tv should receive 5.1 audio channel and than using SRS do with it what it can. But now I am back to the my original question.

    Why can't I select 5.1 audio channel in audio setup of the DVD... For some reason only available audio channels are 2.0 and 2.1. I am sure that at least some of the DVDs I tried have dd 5.1 audio channel since it is written so on the boxes

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Every TV I have ever seen has a digital output for the tuner only.
    SRS works on two channels, it creates an effect that seems like suround,
    but isnt.
    according to the definition of SRS your definition is not right...

    here is the definition from http://hometheater.about.com/od/home...urrounddef.htm

    Tru-Surround XT is a sound-scheme that has the ability to take multi-channel encoded sources, such as Dolby Digital, and reproduce the multi-channel surround effect by just using two-speakers. The result is not as impressive as true Dolby Digital 5.1 (the front and side surround effects are impressive, but the rear surround effects fall a little short, with the sense they are coming from just to rear of your head rather than from the back of the room).


    So in a way it is opposite from what you are describing.

    System that creates 5 channels out of two is for instance Dolby pro logic.
    SRS is trying to reproduce 5 channels with only two speakers...

    But that is not the point.

    My original question was why can't I choose 5.1 audio channel in audio setup of DVDs that do have dd 5.1... I have only 2.0 and 2.1 channels available for choosing from

  10. #10
    Forum Regular BadAssJazz's Avatar
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    Did you turn off Clear Voice II? SRS Trussurround XT won't work, if you have Voice activated... according to the manual.
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  11. #11
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frahengeo
    I believe that your TV is capable of sending a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal to a receiver via the TV optical output. The Dolby Digital receiver will then send power to at least 5 different speakers as well as a signal for the subwoofer. The "surround" effect will depend on the placement of those 5 speakers.

    The SRS Trusurround will take the 5.1 signal and attempt to simulate the surround effect using just two speakers. However, SRS does not come remotely close to actual 5.1 surround.

    Hope this helps
    Actually, the digital audio output from a TV is often transcoded to PCM and output as a two-channel signal. I believe this is a licensing issue, as the Dolby Digital signal is allowed to be either transcoded or otherwise decoded for output through the TV speakers. But, most TVs are not licensed to retransmit the Dolby Digital signal through the digital audio output, so they will output a two-channel PCM signal instead.
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  12. #12
    Forum Regular frahengeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Actually, the digital audio output from a TV is often transcoded to PCM and output as a two-channel signal. I believe this is a licensing issue, as the Dolby Digital signal is allowed to be either transcoded or otherwise decoded for output through the TV speakers. But, most TVs are not licensed to retransmit the Dolby Digital signal through the digital audio output, so they will output a two-channel PCM signal instead.
    Besides being able to use better speakers for the 2-channel output, what would be the point for the optical out then? A marketing ploy? Are there any other algorithms of 5.1 sound besides Dolby or DTS?
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  13. #13
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    If the TV is to process the signal you want "bitstream". SRS does lead you to believe they will accept a 5.1 signal http://www.srslabs.com/content.aspx?id=162 unfortunately I don't have the answer.
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  14. #14
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iiggoorr
    according to the definition of SRS your definition is not right...

    here is the definition from http://hometheater.about.com/od/home...urrounddef.htm

    Tru-Surround XT is a sound-scheme that has the ability to take multi-channel encoded sources, such as Dolby Digital, and reproduce the multi-channel surround effect by just using two-speakers. The result is not as impressive as true Dolby Digital 5.1 (the front and side surround effects are impressive, but the rear surround effects fall a little short, with the sense they are coming from just to rear of your head rather than from the back of the room).


    So in a way it is opposite from what you are describing.

    System that creates 5 channels out of two is for instance Dolby pro logic.
    SRS is trying to reproduce 5 channels with only two speakers...

    But that is not the point.

    My original question was why can't I choose 5.1 audio channel in audio setup of DVDs that do have dd 5.1... I have only 2.0 and 2.1 channels available for choosing from
    Its not that different.
    WHEATHER a synthisized surround channel or a real channel processed for fake surround, the effect usually is the same.
    AS FOR YOUR DVD player, its either the output you choose, the format of the output
    (bitstream, pcm) thats mesing you up
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  15. #15
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Another possibility is that if you're passing it through your TV, you might not be able
    to get a sound without it being downconverted to either 2.0 or 2.1, either by the TV or
    player.
    Maybe your player is talking to your TV and automatically downconverting.
    When I GOT MY NEW RECEIVER I ran everything through it, to get video switching.
    But it wouldnt output anthing but 2.0, 44.1 kz.
    Turns out it was set to "tv" sound, so that the output would only play 2.0 at the HDMI out,
    assuming it was hooked up to a TV!
    It took 130 pages to find this little "feature" and disable it.
    Sometimes theres nothing for it but to read the manuel.
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    Pix, you have a point about reading the manual. I suspect it's something like Badass was talking about. Some little quirk. I have that SRS or something similar on my Sony TV and know it don't work when certain other features are selected. That's the wife/kids TV so I don't remember the particulars.
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    Thanks for the advices. I did read the manual, more than once , but it is possible that I have missed something... So i will look it once again.

    In a mean while other suggestions are welcome

  18. #18
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    What you might try is submitting your question to the manufacturer website to see how they respond. This has worked out on occasion but others you wonder why they bothered responding
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  19. #19
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Pix, you have a point about reading the manual. I suspect it's something like Badass was talking about. Some little quirk. I have that SRS or something similar on my Sony TV and know it don't work when certain other features are selected. That's the wife/kids TV so I don't remember the particulars.
    Yea, its funny how sometimes the "simple" setup gives the most problem.
    Maybe I AM MISSING SOMETHING...
    but so what if hes only getting 2.0 or 2.1?
    Not going to make much difference, not really.
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  20. #20
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    IIGGOORR, do you know any one else with a BD player you can try or you can take yours to hook up to another unit to see if it outputs 5.1 to their unit?
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Yea, its funny how sometimes the "simple" setup gives the most problem.
    Maybe I AM MISSING SOMETHING...
    but so what if hes only getting 2.0 or 2.1?
    Not going to make much difference, not really.
    No, unfortunately I didn't miss anything .
    And I guess you are right I don't believe that 5.1 channel would be a great improvement over two channels.

    The thing is when there is a "problem" with electronic appliances I want to solve it, or at least I won't to know that the problem is actually not a problem, because everything is working as it should.

    Someone suggested that I contact manufacturer, which I did before writing here, but I didn't get any answer from them. I tried LG UK and LG Croatia .

    Now I am thinking that DVD player wasn't meant to send multichannel audio over HDMI... after all why should it do so...
    What I mean is DVD doesn't support Dolby true HD and other HD audio formats which actually require HDMI connection, so digital coaxial or optical audio connection is actually enough.
    The problem is I have only something called RGB/DVI and SCART audio inputs, so I guess there is no way to have 5.1 audio in my TV set...

    Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

    Feel free to comment on my theory .

    BTW what the hack is RGB/DVI audio input, and as silly as it may sound to you, is it maybe compatible with digital coaxial audio in some way?

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    Yeah, manufacturers vary in customer service. I never get a response from Samsung. They do alright if you call them but they don't answer email apparently.

    HDMI does send 5.1 bitstream from DVD or Blu-ray. If anything maybe we are misunderstanding how SRS works and the TV only accepts the 2.0. There could be a technical problem but unless you can try your player with another unit that accepts HDMI or try another unit with your TV we may not know.

    I fully understand you wanting to figure out the mystery. Issues like what you have drive me crazy too.
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  23. #23
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    There could potentially be a handshake problem between HDMI connections if they are different versions.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    There could potentially be a handshake problem between HDMI connections if they are different versions.
    Well this might be it. The DVD have HDMI 1.0 and the TV set have HDMI 1.3.

    If there is a handshake problem is it solvable, is there a way to upgrade DVD to HDMI 1.3 maybe with firmware update?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by iiggoorr
    No, unfortunately I didn't miss anything .
    And I guess you are right I don't believe that 5.1 channel would be a great improvement over two channels.

    The thing is when there is a "problem" with electronic appliances I want to solve it, or at least I won't to know that the problem is actually not a problem, because everything is working as it should.

    Someone suggested that I contact manufacturer, which I did before writing here, but I didn't get any answer from them. I tried LG UK and LG Croatia .

    Now I am thinking that DVD player wasn't meant to send multichannel audio over HDMI... after all why should it do so...
    What I mean is DVD doesn't support Dolby true HD and other HD audio formats which actually require HDMI connection, so digital coaxial or optical audio connection is actually enough.
    The problem is I have only something called RGB/DVI and SCART audio inputs, so I guess there is no way to have 5.1 audio in my TV set...

    Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

    Feel free to comment on my theory .

    BTW what the hack is RGB/DVI audio input, and as silly as it may sound to you, is it maybe compatible with digital coaxial audio in some way?
    Your like the guy, kept messing with his car.
    It was a Dodge, a lost cause and a waste of time, basically.
    Even if you do solve the "problem" what are you left with?
    Some stuff is made "broken", the only tool that will "fix" it is the nearest dumpster.
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