Ultra Clarifier "Dual Beam" does this device improved CD sound?

[hershon]

Does this device or any device that you know of actually improve CD sound quality or is this another suckers game. Please go to this link on this device and let me know what you think. http://www.bedini.com/clarifier.htm Actually, right after I posted this I came upon a great site for a company called Music Direct which sells this product and alot of high end audio stuff at greatly reduced prices and offers a 30 day return policy. http://www.amusicdirect.com/default.asp

The owner seems to be very knowledgeable and he actually said this product does work and produces noticeable results and uses one himself. He also mentioned additional ways to improve sound quality of CDs are from something called vibration control & power conditioning
& also recommended some liquid solution which I purchased called Walker Audio Vivid CD & DVD Enhancer that you put on a CD just once that will permanently improve the CD's sound and something called a sound improvement disc that you place over the CD when playing. Any thoughts? You guys know way more about this stuff than I do.

[Richard Greene]

I can't comment on the specific Bedini device because I have not used it.

However when the Bedini Clarifier was originally introduced in the US, I led a blind audition comparing its effects with an "unclarified" CD.

In fact I did not "clarify" any CD's, but listeners often thought I did -- that was caused by their overactive audiophile imaginations. Read that sentence again and think about how it could affect audiophile recommendations.

Many A-B differences "heard" in audio are only imagined -- our "audio memory" is a very short term memory ... and audiophiles are pressured into believing differences among components are almost always audible. That belief is a very important part of the audio "religion" -- however under blind conditions audiophiles often can't hear differences that they had claimed to hear minutes earlier in a "warm-up" audition ... before the identities of the components were hidden (blind audition). I've done this myself and witnessed it many times during double-blind auditions.

No materials used in the CD (polycarbonate and aluminum), except for possibly some inks that could be used for some labels, can be magnetized. Therefore, demagnetizing a CD is not feasible.

In my opinion the product is likely to be a complete waste of money.
I've been an audiophile since 1966 and have built speakers & subwoofers as a hobby
since 1971.

[Feanor]

...
However when the Bedini Clarifier was originally introduced in the US, I led a blind audition comparing its effects with an "unclarified" CD.

In fact I did not "clarify" any CD's, but listeners often thought I did -- that was caused by their overactive audiophile imaginations. Read that sentence again and think about how it could affect audiophile recommendations.
...
In my opinion the product is likely to be a complete waste of money.
I've been an audiophile since 1966 and have built speakers & subwoofers as a hobby
since 1971.

In the case of the Clarifier, the statement is made, "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability to retrieve stored data." How do you polarize a polymer? Maybe someone can explain, but from my limited knowledge, a polymer is a quite complex molecule that doesn't have a pole to align. OK, maybe the Clarifier does polarized the polymer: so how does that make the CD sound better?

These devices abound with such psuedo-scientific claims. In some cases no explanation at all is offer to explain why the device might work, just send us your money! My advice: DON'T.

[hershon]

First off, I'm as skeptical as you but I really can't see it hurting me or anyone else, to take a chance on this product, if we can get our money back if we're not satisfied (other than the return shipping cost). According to Music Direct, who's salespeople I respect, a bunch of them own the product and they would not carry a product that didn't work, as it wouldn't sell and/or be constantly returned & damage the stores reputation. As Music Direct sells very high end stuff and they didn't push this or any other product on me (in fact I actually came to them about the product as they carry it for 50% less than other online stores), I consider them credible. Again, I should stress, if they didn't have a 30 day return policy, I never would have bought or taken a chance on this product. I just look at it like I have everything to win if somehow it miraculously does improve CD sound noticeably and have nothing other than a small return shipping charge to lose.

What I intend to do is play 2 different Beatles CD's that I'm not wild about the sound on, first without clarification, then with. I'll either notice an apparent difference or not as I have excellent ears and to be honest have no desire to shell out $200 for a product that won't produce significant improvement. Then just to double check myself, I'm going to make before I clarify anything, 2 CDR's of each disc, clarifying one & leaving the other in its original state, and play thenm back to back. While I agree psychologically I may be predisposed into noticing a difference, unless the difference was significant I wouldn't want to buy the product, so I don't think my bias will be much of a factor. As for another example, I bought and returned last week a Marantz 5400 CD player and an Onkyo 390 CD player as neither of them improved the sound quality of my CD sound as much as I would have liked them to. In any case I will report the results of my experiment on this board.

In the case of the Clarifier, the statement is made, "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability to retrieve stored data." How do you polarize a polymer? Maybe someone can explain, but from my limited knowledge, a polymer is a quite complex molecule that doesn't have a pole to align. OK, maybe the Clarifier does polarized the polymer: so how does that make the CD sound better?

These devices abound with such psuedo-scientific claims. In some cases no explanation at all is offer to explain why the device might work, just send us your money! My advice: DON'T.

[topspeed]

Rich is one of the smartest engineers on this board and has forgotten more about acoustic properties than you or I will ever know. His headline is so concise it needs to be repeated: Don't take audio advice from people who benefit financially from that advice

If you really want to see if this crap makes a difference, do your experiment blind. Have a friend come over and switch the discs while you are out of the room. Make sure you don't know the order or even whether they're switching the disc or not. Oh yeah, do this a bunch of times, not just once. Now see if you can hear a difference.

Let me give you an example of the power of predispositions: In college, we did an experiment in Organizational Behavior where we asked 10-15 fellow students to identify the difference between Coke and Pepsi (this was during their advertising wars). The students were in another room when the cups were poured and then came out and tried to ID each one. To make it interesting, on the second trial we poured Coke in every cup. To a man, they all said there was a difference between the two samples, simply because they were predisposed to recognize differences when in reality there were none. The power of suggestions and presuppositions cannot be underestimated my friend.

Hershon, the only way you're going to get those Beatles albums to sound better is to 1) get better remastered recordings, 2) Find the LP's and buy a TT, or 3) find the masters and do it yourself.

[hershon]

While I respect your opinion and my result will probably be as you predicted, I think I'd notice if the sound quality difference was a night and day difference in the sound, regardless of my bias. As I said, I have no desire to lay out $200 for a product if it doesn't make the sound quality significantly better, as opposed to subjectively better. If we're talking minor differences in sound quality, I agree your method is preferable. But if we're talking apparent differences that anyone could automatically tell, then my method at least for me, is the best way to judge. Again, to be redundent, if you have a 30 day return policy on this product, what do you really have to lose. In regards to salesmen, again the best argument these guys made me is, if a product doesn't work, why would they stock it and ruin their stores reputation? If it doesn't work, to be honest, I won't consider myself to have learned anything from the process, as I didn't expect it to work in the first place, but as there is a full money back guarantee, the risk, which is no risk, is worth taking if somehow it miraculously works. To me its like, if you see the most beautiful, hottest looking woman around- someone everyone wants, while the chances are she won't be available & you won't score, what do you have to lose by asking her out?

Rich is one of the smartest engineers on this board and has forgotten more about acoustic properties than you or I will ever know. His headline is so concise it needs to be repeated: Don't take audio advice from people who benefit financially from that advice

If you really want to see if this crap makes a difference, do your experiment blind. Have a friend come over and switch the discs while you are out of the room. Make sure you don't know the order or even whether they're switching the disc or not. Oh yeah, do this a bunch of times, not just once. Now see if you can hear a difference.

Let me give you an example of the power of predispositions: In college, we did an experiment in Organizational Behavior where we asked 10-15 fellow students to identify the difference between Coke and Pepsi (this was during their advertising wars). The students were in another room when the cups were poured and then came out and tried to ID each one. To make it interesting, on the second trial we poured Coke in every cup. To a man, they all said there was a difference between the two samples, simply because they were predisposed to recognize differences when in reality there were none. The power of suggestions and presuppositions cannot be underestimated my friend.

Hershon, the only way you're going to get those Beatles albums to sound better is to 1) get better remastered recordings, 2) Find the LP's and buy a TT, or 3) find the masters and do it yourself.

[dean_martin]

Hershon, the only way you're going to get those Beatles albums to sound better is to 1) get better remastered recordings, 2) Find the LP's and buy a TT, or 3) find the masters and do it yourself.

Hershon, I thought you had accmulated enough anecdotal testimony to conclude that those dangblasted Beatles cds were screwed up in the mastering/transfer process. But I understand your pursuit. I hope you make it through this experimentation phase and get back to enjoying the music before you go broke.

Speaking of experimenting, try taking home a 2-channel amp for the weekend to drive your front L & R speakers using your JVC receiver as a preamp (assuming it has preamp outs). Listen to the music and see if it makes a difference to you. Your speakers may thank you.

Oh...and please post a full report on your snake oil!