Thoughts on my 805 situation

[L.J.]

Well if you've read my small review on the new Onkyo 805 you'd know that it's a very solid unit but has a few minor "issues". The 805 does everything it promises, but these hiccups are kinda annoying.

I'm on my 2nd unit and both have had these same issues:
Runs very hot, but it's never gone into protect mode or anything
Slight popping or thud sound coming from various speakers during HDMI handshake with PS3
Slight audio sync issue - hard to say if it's the 805 or if certain cable channels are just off a bit.
3 to 4 second delay when processing audio signals

The biggest headache for me is the speaker thud/popping sound that comes from my speakers during the handshake. I just keep it on pause until the movie has started to deal with it.

I got this unit for only $700. Anything else coming close is gonna be a huge jump in price and a bunch of features I don't care about. I'm more concerned about SQ than anything else and I'd be willing to spend the extra $$$ if I could find a huge improvement there.

So here's my question. If you were in a similar situation, would you keep the unit you got for an excellent price and performed well, even though you had to live with it's flaws?

Or would you demand flawless performance and pay the extra $$$ to have it?

[kexodusc]

[QUOTE=L.J.]Well if you've read my small review on the new Onkyo 805 you'd know that it's a very solid unit but has a few minor "issues". The 805 does everything it promises, but these hiccups are kinda annoying.

I'm on my 2nd unit and both have had these same issues:
Runs very hot, but it's never gone into protect mode or anything
Slight popping or thud sound coming from various speakers during HDMI handshake with PS3
Slight audio sync issue - hard to say if it's the 805 or if certain cable channels are just off a bit.
3 to 4 second delay when processing audio signals

The biggest headache for me is the speaker thud/popping sound that comes from my speakers during the handshake. I just keep it on pause until the movie has started to deal with it.

I got this unit for only $700. Anything else coming close is gonna be a huge jump in price and a bunch of features I don't care about. I'm more concerned about SQ than anything else and I'd be willing to spend the extra $$$ if I could find a huge improvement there.

If sound quality is your first priority, you know what I'm going to say - I'd sooner downgrade the receiver to the minimum connections/features you need and spend the difference in some quality amplification, if that's possible.

So here's my question. If you were in a similar situation, would you keep the unit you got for an excellent price and performed well, even though you had to live with it's flaws?

Or would you demand flawless performance and pay the extra $$$ to have it?

I dunno L.J. One thing I'll say - if you aren't 100% convinced that this unit is the right one for you by now, and the thought of any other model doesn't just seem silly to you, maybe it's not such a bad idea to take a pass. Maybe in a few months the competition will have some better prices on their comparable models? You're going to spend a lot of time with whatever you end up with.

I can't speak for anyone else, but when it comes to audio/HT gear, there's always a piece or two that really jump out at me and feel right. It usually doesn't take very long either. If your'e looking for a reason to dump this thing and can't talk yourself into getting rid of it, then it's probably the right model for you.

[Rich-n-Texas]

You're five weeks into this audition now right? How much time do you have left on the return? You could hold out with it then see what else is available.

If you had the volume set high, and forgot to pause the PS3, what are the chances that the thud could damage the sub? I don't know how many times I've forgotten to turn it down before switching input sources and I always fear that I've damaged a speaker.

But I agree with Kex... if you're not 100% happy with it, keep shopping. Besides, you're loaded!

[kelsci]

Hi L.J.; the big unknown at this moment is whether other brands of receivers in the league with your Onkyo will or will not display the same problems at any price.

[L.J.]

You're five weeks into this audition now right? How much time do you have left on the return? You could hold out with it then see what else is available.

If you had the volume set high, and forgot to pause the PS3, what are the chances that the thud could damage the sub? I don't know how many times I've forgotten to turn it down before switching input sources and I always fear that I've damaged a speaker.

But I agree with Kex... if you're not 100% happy with it, keep shopping. Besides, you're loaded!

I have about 10 days left. Yes I have forgot to turn the volume down a couple of times and have had a pretty loud sound come from the speakers. Kinda scary but I've been careful since then. I plan on exchanging this unit for a third to buy myself a little more time. Perhaps I'll end up with one that has no popping going on.

My problem is amount you pay for no real improvements in sound quality. Take the 805/875. They both share the same manual and are pretty much the same unit, except the 875 has better video processing. Not worth the $500-$600 difference in price if you ask me.

[L.J.]

Hi L.J.; the big unknown at this moment is whether other brands of receivers in the league with your Onkyo will or will not display the same problems at any price.

This HDMI crap is really pissing me off. Perhaps Onkyo just rushed there units out so they could be the first ones with 1.3. I will have to audition a few other, but not the 875, it has the same issues as the 805.

[L.J.]

If sound quality is your first priority, you know what I'm going to say - I'd sooner downgrade the receiver to the minimum connections/features you need and spend the difference in some quality amplification, if that's possible.

I knew you were gonna say that

[Woochifer]

Tough dilemma you got there!

Some of these issues you noted, like a delay before the receiver picks up the audio track, also accompanied some of the early digital 5.1 receivers.

For the popping, I would check and see if any sources other than your PS3 create this (that is, if you have other sources that can be output in multichannel PCM audio). If so, then it's obviously an issue with your receiver. If not, then it might be a problem particular to the PS3. In that case, you should let Sony know so that they might find a workaround, since Sony has more firmware updates coming for the PS3.

Apple recently patched OS X to fix a similar audio problem, and my receiver similarly produces a popping sound whenever I play a DTS music CD (these are the discs not burned onto DVD discs).

I wouldn't be too concerned about the receiver running hot -- a lot of other receivers do the same thing.

In the end, I guess my question would be, do you still have your old receiver?

[L.J.]

Tough dilemma you got there!

Some of these issues you noted, like a delay before the receiver picks up the audio track, also accompanied some of the early digital 5.1 receivers.

For the popping, I would check and see if any sources other than your PS3 create this (that is, if you have other sources that can be output in multichannel PCM audio). If so, then it's obviously an issue with your receiver. If not, then it might be a problem particular to the PS3. In that case, you should let Sony know so that they might find a workaround, since Sony has more firmware updates coming for the PS3.

Apple recently patched OS X to fix a similar audio problem, and my receiver similarly produces a popping sound whenever I play a DTS music CD (these are the discs not burned onto DVD discs).

I wouldn't be too concerned about the receiver running hot -- a lot of other receivers do the same thing.

In the end, I guess my question would be, do you still have your old receiver?

People over at AVS are having this issue with other sources besides the PS3. I read something about a Toshiba HD player, don't remember which model. But if it is the PS3 wouldn't it happen with every HDMI AVR? Some have noted that this only happened with the new Onkyo's and not their previous HDMI 1.1/1.2 AVRs.

[Woochifer]

People over at AVS are having this issue with other sources besides the PS3. I read something about a Toshiba HD player, don't remember which model. But if it is the PS3 wouldn't it happen with every HDMI AVR? Some have noted that this only happened with the new Onkyo's and not their previous HDMI 1.1/1.2 AVRs.

Hmmm!

Sounds like a design related problem. Have you written to Onkyo about this? I know that they've made some flash-upgradeable receivers in the past, and if a fix is needed for the 805 (or already available for that matter) maybe they can find a remedy for you. Otherwise, it might be wise to return the receiver and wait until they get the bugs out, or check into other models without these problems.

As for the PS3, does this popping happen with every audio format, or just with uncompressed PCM, or just with other formats? If it happens on all formats, then I would guess that it's a design flaw with the Onkyo. Wouldn't be the first time that a receiver manufacturer has had issues with an early production model.

Tough to figure out whether this problem affects other HDMI receivers, given that the Onkyos were the first out the gate with TrueHD, DTS-HD, and DD Plus decoding. But, if other HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 receivers can decode multichannel PCM tracks output from a PS3 without the popping, and your receiver cannot, then it's obviously a problem specific to your model.

[L.J.]

Sounds like a design related problem. Have you written to Onkyo about this? I know that they've made some flash-upgradeable receivers in the past, and if a fix is needed for the 805 (or already available for that matter) maybe they can find a remedy for you. Otherwise, it might be wise to return the receiver and wait until they get the bugs out, or check into other models without these problems.

I have not talked to them personally but Onkyo is aware of the problem. If I'm not mistaken, they blamed the PS3. Funny thing is the AVR comes with a little piece of paper that clearly states a sound may be heard from the speakers while playing BR or HD disc and it says this is normal and not a malfunction.

Some are reporting no popping sounds at all, so who knows

As for the PS3, does this popping happen with every audio format, or just with uncompressed PCM, or just with other formats? If it happens on all formats, then I would guess that it's a design flaw with the Onkyo. Wouldn't be the first time that a receiver manufacturer has had issues with an early production model.

It onlt happens with uncompressed PCM, during the initial handshake. Once the signall is locked in, everything is OK. This becomes annoying with BR discs since there are multiple handshakes before the movie starts.

[brulaha]

I know these issues are preventing me from buying one. On paper, this piece of equipment can't be beat for the price/feature set. However, in practice, there are too many reports of nagging problems (albeit small) for me to pick one up.

I know I want to be 100% happy with any purchase I make, and these issues would not make me happy, especially the thumping/popping noises that could potentially damage expensive speakers.

I would return it and wait. Perhaps Denon's offerings will be better, or perhaps Onkyo can iron these issues out in next years line up. Until then, I know I'll be in a holding pattern.

[bobsticks]

Hey L.J.

Early on I read something to the effect of "make each purchase a definable step up in quality" which I take as a cautionary tale against buying something just 'cause you can. You know I'm in the same boat as you are regarding processing needsand I'm choosing to wait for the real deal. If you're already nitpicking about the bride's feet and the honeymoon aint even over....

Peace

[L.J.]

Well I'm officially done with the 805. I picked up a 3rd......that's right 3rd unit and not only does this one have all the same issues as the first 2 but the video signal on this one has dropped a couple a times. Very, very nice unit, but plagued with too many issues.

I found a Denon 987/2807 on clearance at Frys for $563 I'll give this unit a try and hopefully all will go well. I can still listen to uncompressed PCM and TrueHD tracks with my PS3 so 1.1 will work out fine right now.

[kelsci]

Hi L.J.; I think you made a great choice. I read the review on C-NET. Guttenburg and Falcone are excellent and experienced audio people. I listened to Denon's in surround sound last December in some stores and found their performance to be superb. It might have to do with that Sharc 32 bit processor that they deploy in their receivers. The good thing that I have noticed with Blue Ray is that many discs come with the uncompressed PCM channels. I personally am not sure how this audio is outputted to a receiver; meaning whether it can travel through the standard toslink/coaxial cables we generally use for listening to multi-channel sound from regular dvd players, or whether that audio can only be reproduce from an hdmi cable from the BD player to the receiver. The price is great I believe for this well rated unit. Good luck. Let us know how it works and sounds once you have analyzed its performance.

[L.J.]

Hi L.J.; I think you made a great choice. I read the review on C-NET. Guttenburg and Falcone are excellent and experienced audio people. I listened to Denon's in surround sound last December in some stores and found their performance to be superb. It might have to do with that Sharc 32 bit processor that they deploy in their receivers. The good thing that I have noticed with Blue Ray is that many discs come with the uncompressed PCM channels. I personally am not sure how this audio is outputted to a receiver; meaning whether it can travel through the standard toslink/coaxial cables we generally use for listening to multi-channel sound from regular dvd players, or whether that audio can only be reproduce from an hdmi cable from the BD player to the receiver. The price is great I believe for this well rated unit. Good luck. Let us know how it works and sounds once you have analyzed its performance.

With the PS3 (no analog outs), HDMI 1.1 AVR or up is the only way to listen to the uncompressed pcm tracks. If the BR/HD player has analog outs and can handle all the decoding, there is really no need to go with HDMI and current AVRs with MC inputs is all that's needed. Standard toslink/coaxial can only handle 2 channel PCM.

[GMichael]

With the PS3 (no analog outs), HDMI 1.1 AVR or up is the only way to listen to the uncompressed pcm tracks. If the BR/HD player has analog outs and can handle all the decoding, there is really no need to go with HDMI and current AVRs with MC inputs is all that's needed. Standard toslink/coaxial can only handle 2 channel PCM.

You've had better luck with Denon anyhow. Let us know how it works out.
Be sure to get something that will drive those new Mini's you plan on buying.

[L.J.]

You've had better luck with Denon anyhow. Let us know how it works out.
Be sure to get something that will drive those new Mini's you plan on buying.

Toying with the idea of a used 5 channel amp actually.

[GMichael]

Toying with the idea of a used 5 channel amp actually.

I'm thinking, a 2 channel amp for just the mains with music. The 5 channel comes later.
Which ones are on the chopping block for you?

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'll buy your 5 channel tomorrow GM. Tomorrow's payday!

[L.J.]

Got the 987 hooked up but not calibrated yet. So far so good.

No speaker pops at all. Something else that's interesting is my 2910 no longer skips while using the HDMI video output. If anyone remembers this thread, I had to turn the video on my 2910 off to stop CD's from skipping while hooked to the 805. Strange, it all works just fine with the Denon. Not a bad buy for $563. It seems like a toy compared to the Onkyo though. The 805 is a freakin' beast. Too bad it has all those issues.

GM, not sure about the amp yet. May go with a 2 chan. but not sure. Been hearing alot about Emotiva though.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I think I'm going to take Kex's advice and stick with an up-to-date Yamaha with pre-outs.

L.J., did you take any hits $$$ wise while going back & forth with CC and these Onkyo's? (i.e. restocking fees?) That would suck.

[L.J.]

I think I'm going to take Kex's advice and stick with an up-to-date Yamaha with pre-outs.

L.J., did you take any hits $$$ wise while going back & forth with CC and these Onkyo's? (i.e. restocking fees?) That would suck.

No restocking fee

I agree with Kex's advice as well. The 987 for the price I got is everything I need and leaves a little room for a used external amp.

[Rich-n-Texas]

That's good. I was going to say I'd take up a collection for your expert reviews (i.e. consulting fee) to offset the store fees.

Well, maybe not but we do appreciate your efforts just the same.

[bobsticks]

So what's next L.J.? With the Denon and mid-level Onkyos out where do ya go from here? I have been trying to convince myself into looking at some of the hi-level Onks but it just seem likes a waste to spend that much extra for wattage I'll never use, especially with no guarantee of improved processing. That constant law of trade-offs...