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  1. #1
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Thinking of going 7.1

    I believe its about time to make the move to 7.1, but I would like to hear others that have made the move from 5.1 and the advantages if any. I have the BDP that I want and my AVR supports 7.1, so I looking to max out all of the features of my HT. I am out in the field right now so I am unable to provide a diagram of my room, but I will try to write it out to give you a mental pic.

    Room: 20wx35L, the left wall is solid with one window (near front) and fireplace, The front wall is solid, Right wall has opening from Front door entry way (near front wall) and opening from Kitchen at about the 20' mark toward rear wall. Rear wall is mainly a sliding glass door.

    Speakers: All speakers are mount approx 7' high on walls with a 30 degree down tilt except for center channel. The rear surrounds are located on rear wall approx 12' behind the listening area (will be the surround back when other speakers are added) two sub's each located on floor under fronts.

    Seating: Main couch is located approx 10' from TV Kitchen table is behind couch.

    The additional speakers will be place same height (to keep everything uniform) with the same degree tilt, but will be slightly (3-4" in front of couch, due to wall limits on right side.

    Questions:

    By placing the surrounds 3-4" in front of couch, will that give an odd effect on surround sound

    What effect can occure if I turn the speakers back toward the couch area
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  2. #2
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by recoveryone
    I believe its about time to make the move to 7.1, but I would like to hear others that have made the move from 5.1 and the advantages if any. I have the BDP that I want and my AVR supports 7.1, so I looking to max out all of the features of my HT. I am out in the field right now so I am unable to provide a diagram of my room, but I will try to write it out to give you a mental pic.
    Room: 20wx35L, the left wall is solid with one window (near front) and fireplace, The front wall is solid, Right wall has opening from Front door entry way (near front wall) and opening from Kitchen at about the 20' mark toward rear wall. Rear wall is mainly a sliding glass door.
    Speakers: All speakers are mount approx 7' high on walls with a 30 degree down tilt except for center channel. The rear surrounds are located on rear wall approx 12' behind the listening area (will be the surround back when other speakers are added) two sub's each located on floor under fronts.
    THE SURROUND backs need to go behind the listening area. Your current rear surrounds will go on the right and left walls toward the back.
    I found that my 7.1 system added a certain ambiance, and sounds traveled more smoothly, but don't expect a huge change. I DID'NT think it was worth the trouble, but you
    may decide differently.
    Also check you gear for unpleasant surprizes. On my receiver, for instance, you cant
    use the 7.1 in and go 7.1 at the same time. Since I have an older SACD player I NEED THE 7.1 IN! So thats that for me. BASICALLY, the cheaper your receiver/prepro the more
    limited your options will be.
    Finally the 7.1 is designed to be set up a certain way, and you will find that putting speakers in areas not described in the instructions unsatisfactory.
    CAN'T put the surround backs behind the listening area? Then no 7.1 for you.
    Sorry.
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  3. #3
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    If you go 7.1, the side surrounds should be close to parallel with your main seating area, then the rear surrounds go behind you and tilt inward on a 150 degree angle.


    Take a look at the dts setup. If you cannot do this setup, then it will mess with your brain.

    Having said that, i went 7.1 years back and have really enjoyed the added ambiance and effects especially from 7.1 Logic7 music mode. Plus, most HD channels are 5.1, but your AVR will add the extra 2 channels which is sweet. So, if you show is DD, then the AVR will go DD EX, etc.

    Side Note: I don't aim the rear speakers downward at all...you want the rears to be less-localized as possible.

  4. #4
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    The tilt is due to the height placement of each speaker, but thanks I will be able to adjust the aiming of the back surrounds. My main concern is the side surrounds due to the opening on the right wall will force me to place them 3-4" in front of the main seating area. I remember reading that side surrounds should be place 3-4" to the rear of the main seating area for a more diffused effect. I guess what I should be asking is how strong of presence do the back surrounds have, or will it be like having 4 surrounds with the same effects coming from the speakers.
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  5. #5
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recoveryone
    The tilt is due to the height placement of each speaker, but thanks I will be able to adjust the aiming of the back surrounds. My main concern is the side surrounds due to the opening on the right wall will force me to place them 3-4" in front of the main seating area. I remember reading that side surrounds should be place 3-4" to the rear of the main seating area for a more diffused effect. I guess what I should be asking is how strong of presence do the back surrounds have, or will it be like having 4 surrounds with the same effects coming from the speakers.
    I misread your op..it's 3-4 inches, not feet. I don't think 3-4" will make much difference if they are placed toward the front of your sofa.

    Your last question is a bit tougher...on normal 5.1 the rear 4 do sound similar, but each will have a slightly difference sound...meaning the rear surrounds add more depth and cohesion to the overall sound.
    Your room is certainly big enough to handle the extra rears, but it's up to you justifying the overall costs of adding them. My cost was $75 to add two Infinity speakers so it was a no brainer for me.

  6. #6
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Cost is a non factor, I already have the extra speakers that are the other set of X77's that I replaced with LX 5's upstairs, just need to buy some wire. Thanks for your input and I will be posting my findings over the weekend.
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    Years back, Lexicon during the Dolby Pro-Logic age made a processor(could have been the CP-1,CP-2 or CP-3) that had side speakers. I was able to get a demo of this in a store that had a set-up very close to the DTS set-up shown above. The side surrounds on this processor sounded nothing short of fabulous.

    I know that even in movie theaters way back in the early 60s there were speakers along the sides and most definetely in the THX theaters of the later 1980s. I remember seeing THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS in one of those THX theaters. There was a scene where a cable car on its tracks passes you buy and you could hear it go from side speaker to side speaker down the theater rows. It was a feeling of side sound nirvana. Not long after that I perfected a five channel Dynaquad system and played the same scene from a laserdisc. The rear surround speakers of this circuit which faced me like the side surrounds pictured in the above diagram. I did hear the same effect but it was only a one speaker effect which did not compare to the movie theater affect with its multiple speakers. A set-up like the DTS diagram would IMHO reproduce something close to the THX theater's results.

  8. #8
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    Over the years after moving to 7.1, i've tried various setups with the rear surrounds. I've had them within a feet of one another facing forward in the center of the rear wall. I then moved them further apart..again facing forward on the rear wall. And finally, i moved them according to the above diagram.
    Based on all three setups, i prefer the DTS diagram above. The speaker seems to mesh better and present a more seamless sound during movie playback as well as sports.

    Nothing better than a good hockey game in HD while pumping sound through a 7.1 setup! Dang, i need a cold beer. Go Canes!!

  9. #9
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelsci
    Years back, Lexicon during the Dolby Pro-Logic age made a processor(could have been the CP-1,CP-2 or CP-3) that had side speakers. I was able to get a demo of this in a store that had a set-up very close to the DTS set-up shown above. The side surrounds on this processor sounded nothing short of fabulous.

    I know that even in movie theaters way back in the early 60s there were speakers along the sides and most definetely in the THX theaters of the later 1980s. I remember seeing THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS in one of those THX theaters. There was a scene where a cable car on its tracks passes you buy and you could hear it go from side speaker to side speaker down the theater rows. It was a feeling of side sound nirvana. Not long after that I perfected a five channel Dynaquad system and played the same scene from a laserdisc. The rear surround speakers of this circuit which faced me like the side surrounds pictured in the above diagram. I did hear the same effect but it was only a one speaker effect which did not compare to the movie theater affect with its multiple speakers. A set-up like the DTS diagram would IMHO reproduce something close to the THX theater's results.
    A LOT of those theater setups were just left/right speakers wired together in parellel.
    Before Pro-logic most theater speaker systems were not very advanced.
    One of the best presentations I ever heard was TERMINATOR THREE.
    I heard part of it, and waited until that theater was starting again, because my theater didn't have DTS. iT WAS SPECTACULAR So of course the BLU disc was a must buy
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  10. #10
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    I love my 7.1 setup.

    I agree with Tarheel on the speaker place and it's pretty much what I have. The only difference is that I use di-poles for my sides (Paradigm reference). When I play anything in DTS 7.1, it's jaw-dropping, pure and simple.

    My HT room isn't set up right now since we moved, but I'm in the process of getting it ready to roll again. I now have Paradigm Studio 100s for the fronts so I'm not sure if I'm going to need my sub any longer, but I will probably test it with and without, changing the front setting from 'small' to 'large' of course.
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  11. #11
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Just finish putting up the additional speakers and redoing my MCACC setup. I first I was a bit confused cause the back surrounds were not working. I spent the next hour redoing all of my speaker connections. And as usual it was something very simple, I to go into the setup and turn the surround back speakers on. I was not impressed until I did the MCACC again and Tarheel was right on the money. The additional spaciousness is very evident (tested with Blu Ray Serenity). The biggest improvement was just redoing my MCACC again and how it reset all of the speakers. Its been over 5 years since the last time I used it and the improvement in LFE and Center channel was huge. At what I used to listen at around -15, I now only need to go to -25. I played some music in 7 ch mode and the sound was seamless as if the front L/R extended all the way to the rear of the room.


    View of Front from rear



    View of rear from front
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  12. #12
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    glad to hear it worked out. I just grabbed The Expendables Friday and it's a true 7.1 DTS mix and it pounds....great demo disc to spin.

  13. #13
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Interesting pick, as I was not even thinking about that flick, but now I have a reason to pick it up. I notice that my AVR shows DD+PLIIx+MV now to help create a 7.1 sound field on any non DTS-HD Master disk.
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  14. #14
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    I agree with Tarheel on the speaker place and it's pretty much what I have. The only difference is that I use di-poles for my sides (Paradigm reference). When I play anything in DTS 7.1, it's jaw-dropping, pure and simple.

    My HT room isn't set up right now since we moved, but I'm in the process of getting it ready to roll again. I now have Paradigm Studio 100s for the fronts so I'm not sure if I'm going to need my sub any longer, but I will probably test it with and without, changing the front setting from 'small' to 'large' of course.
    Depends on how low your sub can go. It can at least augment your other speakers.
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