Survey: Best CD Audio Sound for DVD Player

[EdwardGein]

Open to anyones opinions on this based upon their actual listening experience. For pure CD sound, we're not talking about DVD sound or speakers or receivers, what brand DVD player & model for you has produced the best CD sound? Was this connected to your receiver by optic cable or by analogue cables (please include the brand name & model too)? You can include Universal players in this but for this particular thread we're only talking regular CD's not DVD-A's or SACD's?

[audiomadness]

Open to anyones opinions on this based upon their actual listening experience. For pure CD sound, we're not talking about DVD sound or speakers or receivers, what brand DVD player & model for you has produced the best CD sound? Was this connected to your receiver by optic cable or by analogue cables (please include the brand name & model too)? You can include Universal players in this but for this particular thread we're only talking regular CD's not DVD-A's or SACD's?

I've been using my Pioneer Elite DV-45A Universal Player as my work horse source unit for some time now and have been immensely satisfied with the quality of it's 2channel presentation. I generally use the digital coax outs mainly for DD/DTS movies and use the 2channel analog outs for my 2channel pure CD music listening as well as the high rez formats. I've actually compared the sound through both connections on my NAD T752 with CDs. Through my ears, I couldn't go wrong with either of the connections because both sounded very good, but the DAC's on the Pioneer Elite had somewhat of an edge towards warmth on my CDs. The Burr-Brown's on the Pioneer Elite probably had something to do with that.

[RJW1138]

There's a thread on AudioAsylum regarding a CD player shootout, where an $85 Panasonic DVD-S35 comes in 3rd, in a field of $85 to $10,000 players. VERY impressive if it's true. Here's the link:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...ut&r=&session=

From loser to winner, here's how it went:

Pioneer Elite DV-09 ($2200 new)
47 Labs Flatfish with battery power supply and Progression DAC ($10,000)
Classe (can't remember the model, but older model) $3,000 or so
Audio Research CD-3 $5,000 or so
Sony DVP9000ES playing as redbook CD player $1,500
Meridian 588 (don't know the price)
Panasonic (can't remember the model number) $85
Sony DVP9000ES playing as an SACD player $1,500
Cary 306/200 $5,000

I know if I was buying, I'd be checking this baby out!

[RJW1138]

I've been using my Pioneer Elite DV-45A Universal Player as my work horse source unit for some time now and have been immensely satisfied with the quality of it's 2channel presentation. I generally use the digital coax outs mainly for DD/DTS movies and use the 2channel analog outs for my 2channel pure CD music listening as well as the high rez formats. I've actually compared the sound through both connections on my NAD T752 with CDs. Through my ears, I couldn't go wrong with either of the connections because both sounded very good, but the DAC's on the Pioneer Elite had somewhat of an edge towards warmth on my CDs. The Burr-Brown's on the Pioneer Elite probably had something to do with that.

Hmm, I've got a T742 and I'm pretty sure it's got the same DACs as the T752. I was using an old CD changer hooked up digitally to my receiver for my source. I ended up having to buy a dedicated CD player once it was pointed out to me just how poor the DACs in the receiver were for neutral, 2-channel rendering (I borrowed an $1800 universal player for a day, and hooked up "analogly", it smoked the setup I had, so I knew there were problems). I now use a Cambridge 640C, and it's pretty darn good. If I hook it up digitally too and switch back and forth between analog and digital, it's extremely apparent just how bad the DACs in the NAD receiver are.

Just thought you might want to know this. There's another several levels of fidelity above what you're experiencing, if you find your Pioneer to only be marginally better than your NAD...

[topspeed]

At only ~$600, the Denon 2910 is a top contender. Very good picture combined with excellent audio in all formats. Faroudja chipset and top of the line BB DAC's. It's connected via Harmonic Tech ic's for analog and a Monster optic cable. My avr has the exact same BB DAC's as the 2910 and when switching between digital and analog inputs, the only difference I can discern is more bass when using the digital input, but that's a product of the bass management. Naturally, this is for rbcd only, not hi-rez.

I previously had a Sony DVD, along with a few Sony CDP's, and none of them reproduced rbcd to my liking. The DAC's are the key. I'm partial to BB and Wolfson, but always audition everything yourself and see what works for you.

[EdwardGein]

I should have added my choice right now Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player when connected by optics cable to my Denon 3801 receiver. Doesn't sound as good when connected by analogue cables. I may try to sample in stores though the brands/models listed on this thread. Particularly curious about the Denon 2910 DVD player as I was under the perhaps wrong impression they weren't as good as their receivers. I at one time got & returned one of Denon's most lower end DVD players & wasn't impressed with the sound at all- again this was a $250 or less model (don't remember which).

[N. Abstentia]

If your H/K sounds bad when connected with analog cables that means it has crappy DAC's and poor audio stages. Using the digital cable bypasses all that and uses the DAC's in your receiver. This also means that as long as you're using that digital cable there won't be any differences in sound between players, it does not matter what you get. Using the analog outputs is the only way you can test the sound quality.

And my choice is the Marantz DV-6400. I tried many, and still have this one

[EdwardGein]

I know we've had this recurring argument but there really was a big difference between the optic on the Harmon Kardon & hearing the optic on several other DVD players with the same receiver. Also the optic on the Harmon Kardon also sounded better then the analogue as well as these DVD players. None of the other DVD players I tried were over $300 so maybe that's why.

[topspeed]

By using digital ic's, every cdp/dvd player you hook up is a glorified transport. Nothing more, nothing less. If you feel you can hear a difference between transports (and you certainly wouldn't be alone), then that's fine. Just know what you're listening to, because it isn't the player per se. The transport and tray on the 2910 are rock solid, a fact illustrated in this Audioholics review that plainly demonstrates the difference between entry level players and the 2910.

Hope this helps.

[Woochifer]

At only ~$600, the Denon 2910 is a top contender. Very good picture combined with excellent audio in all formats. Faroudja chipset and top of the line BB DAC's. It's connected via Harmonic Tech ic's for analog and a Monster optic cable. My avr has the exact same BB DAC's as the 2910 and when switching between digital and analog inputs, the only difference I can discern is more bass when using the digital input, but that's a product of the bass management. Naturally, this is for rbcd only, not hi-rez.

I previously had a Sony DVD, along with a few Sony CDP's, and none of them reproduced rbcd to my liking. The DAC's are the key. I'm partial to BB and Wolfson, but always audition everything yourself and see what works for you.

Actually, the Sony SCD-CE595 (their entry level SACD player) and the ES model that I bought both use the Burr-Brown 179x series DACs that the 2910 and Denon's current batch of receivers use. The improved performance that I got with CD audio was a pleasant surprise when I switched to that CD/SACD changer.

This same DAC was also used in the Arcam CD72 CD player (the successor to that model changed to the same Wolfson DACs that Arcam's more expensive CD players use). Believe it or not, that Burr-Brown DAC has also shown up in the entry level Toshiba SD-4960 and Pioneer DV-563A universal players, both of which sold for under $200 and are very popular with modders who claim that with analog section upgrades, those players can approach the performance of far more expensive high end CD players. Pioneer went to a different (and cheaper in all likelihood) DAC when the successor model was introduced; not sure what Toshiba did with their newer model.

[musicman1999]

my current dvd player is a cambridge audio 540d and when connected by analog cables it is not a bad cd player,i would estimate it to be as good as a cheaper dedicated cd player,such as cambridges 340c or perhaps 540c.it does not however hold a candle to my arcam cd73t cd player in any way.the highs are rolled off,midrange lacks body and the lows lack body.soundstage is also not as wide or deep.to be fair however i did not expect it to be,it costs half as much.
thanks
bill

[EdwardGein]

Anyone know of any links that rank DVD/Universal Players or CD players?

[RJW1138]

Anyone know of any links that rank DVD/Universal Players or CD players?

Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity has the most comprehensive ranking of DVD players based on highly extensive video testing that I've ever seen. It's awe-inspiring, really. However, it's video only. They do not test the audio performance. If you're interested, though, it's totally worth checking out.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi

As for a review site that does the same for the audio performance of Universal and CD players, I'm not aware of any such thing. I'd kill for there to be one! User review sites where any shmuck can chime in with their often unprofessional, limited, and ignorant opinion (like AudioReview et al.) have incredibly limited usefulness - they're mostly useful to satiate curiosity and for a bit of fun, and that's about it. With professional review sites, you're limited by the selection of products they choose to review, and often the impracticality of their price ranges and pretentiousness of their reviewers. But the crux is that I've never seen a site like this actually have the guts to RANK anything. Rather, they just assign grades, often but not always taking price into consideration, and leave it at that. It's up to you to determine what ranks better than what else, taking price and performance into consideration and determining for yourself what sits at the best price/performance ratio for your budget. Then again, I completely admit the difficulties in ranking audio performance anyways, where subjectivity can be a significant factor. It's not like there's a suite of audio tests that can obtain the same objective results analogous to the video tests that Secrets uses. Oh well, I'm afraid this is how it will probably always be.

However, if I didn't need to work for a living, I just might try to make such a site....

Ryan

[HT BUFF]

I would like to add my opinion here, so many times I have heard dealers say "CD players have better sound with CD'S than DVD players do" I could never understand that comment as DVD 5.1 sound is by far much superior than CD sound, so in otherwords if a DVD player can decode sound so well from DVD's it should do an equally good job with CD's as well.
In answer to your question I have a Denon 1910 DVD player and it is great for both using Digital output.

[L.J.]

I agree with Topspeep. I upgraded to my 2910 before getting new speakers so I was able to note the improvement in sound. Upgrading my speakers has made the biggest improvement by far.

[shokhead]

I would like to add my opinion here, so many times I have heard dealers say "CD players have better sound with CD'S than DVD players do" I could never understand that comment as DVD 5.1 sound is by far much superior than CD sound, so in otherwords if a DVD player can decode sound so well from DVD's it should do an equally good job with CD's as well.
In answer to your question I have a Denon 1910 DVD player and it is great for both using Digital output.

The player isnt decoding anything through the digital connection.

[HT BUFF]

Not sure what you mean there, it is the only connection I have, do not use analog cables??
Are you talking that the receiver does the ALL the decoding?

[shokhead]

Dig and the receiver decodes and analogs the player does.

[nightflier]

Not sure what you mean there, it is the only connection I have, do not use analog cables??
Are you talking that the receiver does the ALL the decoding?

No the DAC does.

[nightflier]

This may have been overkill, but I placed an Aragon DAC under my DVD player and the sound from the optical output to the DAC & then RCA to the receiver is a substantial improvement (perhaps 30%?) over connecting the RCA cables straight between the DVD player & the receiver.

My setup (nothing special, but functional):

Source: Sony DVP-NS775V DVD/SACD player
Receiver: HK DVP1001 digital receiver
DAC: Aragon D2A2
RCA Cables: Heartland Cables (Canare L-5CFB & Canare RCAP connectors)
Coax Cable: Audioquest VDM-3

I don't think the Sony's internal DAC is one of the better ones out there but the D2A2 made a substantial improvement. If you want to make a $150 player (CD or DVD) sound like a $2500 one, a second-hand DAC (I believe I paid $180 for the D2A2 on eBay) is the best solution. Better priced second-hand DACs can be found in brands like California Audio Labs & others. Just make sure you start with a well-built player like Marantz, Cambridge, etc, and stay away from ones with too many plastic parts.

[EdwardGein]

I'm not that swift in technical matters so can you please explain this. How does one place an (Argon) DAC under your DVD player. I don't understand. Do you mean you opened yours up and replaced the DAC with this? How does a person without technical knowledge do this or do they not & just take it to an electrician or someone to install? Thanks

This may have been overkill, but I placed an Aragon DAC under my DVD player and the sound from the optical output to the DAC & then RCA to the receiver is a substantial improvement (perhaps 30%?) over connecting the RCA cables straight between the DVD player & the receiver.

My setup (nothing special, but functional):

Source: Sony DVP-NS775V DVD/SACD player
Receiver: HK DVP1001 digital receiver
DAC: Aragon D2A2
RCA Cables: Heartland Cables (Canare L-5CFB & Canare RCAP connectors)
Coax Cable: Audioquest VDM-3

I don't think the Sony's internal DAC is one of the better ones out there but the D2A2 made a substantial improvement. If you want to make a $150 player (CD or DVD) sound like a $2500 one, a second-hand DAC (I believe I paid $180 for the D2A2 on eBay) is the best solution. Better priced second-hand DACs can be found in brands like California Audio Labs & others. Just make sure you start with a well-built player like Marantz, Cambridge, etc, and stay away from ones with too many plastic parts.

[nightflier]

I'm not that swift in technical matters so can you please explain this. How does one place an (Argon) DAC under your DVD player. I don't understand. Do you mean you opened yours up and replaced the DAC with this? How does a person without technical knowledge do this or do they not & just take it to an electrician or someone to install? Thanks

Sorry, I should have clarified that the DAC is a seperate component. BTW, the Aragon is a bit wide and would not fit on everyone's audio rack, but if you're looking for something small and very high quality, the Classe DAC1 is awesome and only about the size of a large brick - it can fit behind things if you want. It's running about $500 used right now so if that's too expensive try a used CAL, Audio Alchemy, or even a Theta unit. DAC's really have no moving parts and so they tend to last a long time w/o needing service (unlike a CD/DVD player).

[jamison]

well my best sounding cd audio is still my CD player... I have a Pioneer DV-45A, dvd and the pioneer 301 disc dvd changer F727? My Cd player is a pioneer PDR-839 compact disc recorder with a 3 disc changer on the left and a burner on the right.. the changer is clunky and takes a while to load cds but it does give a a heckofalot better sound than either of my DVD players.. I use the DV-45 A for SACD and DVD AUDIO mostly I have tried it for CD audio and it just doesnt impress me a lot.. it also says it plays MP3s but It wont recognize all the tracks on my mp3 cds so i skip it.
I have the Cd player connected with analog connections and I also have a Coax digital connection going into My Alesis DEQ230D EQ. from there it goes to my preamp. the analog sounds great but so does the digital....I use to eq to tweak the bass either up or down very slightly and sometimes i cut the highs on some of the heavy metal stuff i listen to.. no upside down xmas treees on my eq thank you

[jamison]

BTW i did some checking on that Panny dvd player... seems its reliability is an issue... not getting very good reviews on amazon.com

[shokhead]

BTW i did some checking on that Panny dvd player... seems its reliability is an issue... not getting very good reviews on amazon.com

Which one would that be?