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  1. #1
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    Subwoofers Does Size Matter & More?

    Other then cosmetic size, if everything else is equal, will a 10" subwoofer produce a better & more powerful sound then an 8" subwoofer & so on? Do the more watts a subwoofer has generally mean that its louder & more powerful then one with less watts if everything else is equal? Will putting a subwoofer on a stand such as the Auralex GRAMMA™ Isolation Riser actually improve the audio quality & cut down on floor & wall vibrations?
    http://www.truesoundcontrol.com/prod...FUuECwodF2KDuQ
    Did anyone ever hear of Acoustic Sciences subtrap,which is very expensive & what are your thoughts on that? www.asc-home-theater.com/subtrap.htm

  2. #2
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    ouput of the driver size depends on excursion and other factors. I think that increasing the driver size is more economical than increasing excursion + watts.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Not to mention that driver excursion causes bending of woofer, distortion and less controll.
    This is why most good manufactures add servo controls, but this is still a help after its too late.
    :-)
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    Other then cosmetic size, if everything else is equal, will a 10" subwoofer produce a better & more powerful sound then an 8" subwoofer & so on?
    All things equal, you'll get more swept volume, which is critical to producing low volume output.

    Do the more watts a subwoofer has generally mean that its louder & more powerful then one with less watts if everything else is equal?
    Yes, more watts means louder, all things equal. But rarely are all things equal. Cheap woofers have poor sensitivity, poor power handling, or high resonant frequencies (or all 3 if they're too cheap). Don't by a subwoofer based on watts. If you need to compare output, look at the max dB of SPL it can produce.

    Will putting a subwoofer on a stand such as the Auralex GRAMMA™ Isolation Riser actually improve the audio quality & cut down on floor & wall vibrations?
    Actually, I found it made a small 8" sub I made sound a bit better, but definitely made the 10" woofer sound worse. I have no idea why that would be. It does very little as far as lowering noise in the rooms beside or below the room with the sub, but it did seem to cut down on vibrations a bit. The vibrating was still there, just being absorbed by the pad, instead of a hard floor resisting the transfer of that energy.

    I think a good, cheap rug would probably be almost as effective. In carpeted rooms I'd consider one unecessary, unless the sub had no "feet" or spikes of its own.

  5. #5
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Not to mention that driver excursion causes bending of woofer, distortion and less controll.
    This is why most good manufactures add servo controls, but this is still a help after its too late.
    :-)
    Good points. I always bring this up, but excursion is one of those things that people today seem to be trying to get more and more of. Not me. Too much excursion ruins sound quality. Go look at car audio.

    To be fair, excursion relative to the woofers motor has to be quite high before any control (or even transient response) is lost, and most woofers won't bend unless driven too hard - the surround bears the brunt of the force, and even most cheap woofer materials are strong enough to not worry about woofer bending until driven too hard. If you buy the right sub for your purposes, you won't over work it and have to worry.

    Servo's are definitely necessary though when you cross the line and want super loud SPL's with great sound quality. Though the best subs I've heard have not been servo. I think in most homes it's overkill. Get a good woofer of good sensitivity instead.

  6. #6
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    If i want a sub just for some bass,an 8" would be ok but if i want one for LFE,then even a 10 might not be where i'd start.
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  7. #7
    Forum Regular RH Customs's Avatar
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    By far the answer to your question in my opinion is NO. I would recommend the B&W ASW 300. It is only an 8, but this thing is a beast. Super clean, deep, bass, and yes I know it is only 100 watts. This is the best sub I have heard and is perfect for music and movies. This would be my pick and for $350 it is hard to find anything that comes close at all in that prices range that actual sounds excellent and does not just rumble. Also this is the most versatile sub you can get with all the connections and outputs.

    http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/...el%20ASW%20300

    RH

  8. #8
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    All things being equal, of course a 10" will outperfrom an 8". If all things are equal with the two subs in question, the only thing NOT equal is obviously the cone area. A 10" has more cone area than an 8" therefore it can go deeper and louder with the same amount of power. Step up to a 12" and it's that much better again.

    Notice that B&W sub is -3db at 27hz..not bad for an 8". But then look at a sub like the Paradigm Servo 15..it's FLAT down to 14hz. It's all just simple physics...the more cone area and the more power you have, the more output you'll get.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    If i want a sub just for some bass,an 8" would be ok but if i want one for LFE,then even a 10 might not be where i'd start.
    Sometime when we finally get together, I'll show you how much LFE my 8" Velodyne can produce, of course, the room boundaries help alot.

  10. #10
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Size always matters.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  11. #11
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    All things being equal, of course a 10" will outperfrom an 8". If all things are equal with the two subs in question, the only thing NOT equal is obviously the cone area. A 10" has more cone area than an 8" therefore it can go deeper and louder with the same amount of power. Step up to a 12" and it's that much better again.

    Notice that B&W sub is -3db at 27hz..not bad for an 8". But then look at a sub like the Paradigm Servo 15..it's FLAT down to 14hz. It's all just simple physics...the more cone area and the more power you have, the more output you'll get.
    Just like sex,area,power,output.
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  12. #12
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    Ed
    I have my sub lifted off the floor about 15 inches and it made my bass tighter and deeper.I have an eleven inch sealed box sub.Bass is very room dependant and proper placement is critical for best performance.I recently set up a system for a buddy of mine and his room had vast differences in bass response in as little as 3-4 feet of floor space.

    bill

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    Is your room an open spaced room? With the open spaced rooms I don't have any problem. It's the closed in bedroom type rooms that gives my sub acoustical nightmares, particularly living in an apartment.

  14. #14
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    No my room about 12 by 20 opened a bit at one end.It just sounds like you need to find the proper position for the sub.Put your sub in the listening position play some strong bass,turn off all other speakers and walk around the room you will see how different bass response is.Where ever it sounds best thats where it goes.


    bill

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    Unfortunately the length of my bedroom, isn't close to 20' & logistically the only place I can put it in that room is in the top right hand corner of the room. To the left is my stereo rack & to the left of that is my dresser with TV on top & speakers & to the left of that is the door. Hopefully this new sub & isolation playform will help. By Acoustic Research 108 sub is OK but no fantastic for Cds

  16. #16
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    If the location is set then you may have a problem that a new sub wont fix.If it is sitting in a room node thats sucking out your bass then you may be stuck.Did you try your living room sub?Not familiar with that sub,is it very big,try it as a table,that may give more placement options.

    bill

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    The living room sub is great I tried it in the bedroom though & that was the problem, it was too loud acousticly & there really wasn't anything I could do but try it with lower volume which made it ineffective That sub was around 450 watts 8" So I went back to use my 8: 125 watts Acoustic Research Sub whose sound blends in the room & is fine for DVDs & TV but just so so for CDs. I'll see what happens with the M&K K-9 sub I'm getting- the price was right, it was $185 or so with shipping & sells new for $500 & is also 8" 125 watts & the aurelex carpeted isolation riser for a sub. I'll also probably try my living room sub on the isolation riser in the bedroom & see if it makes it any better.

  18. #18
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Also with the orbs i guess the sub would be doing ALL the bass and maybe some mids to?
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  19. #19
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Also with the orbs i guess the sub would be doing ALL the bass and maybe some mids to?
    You know what: we could do a frequency sweep with my DVE, unplug the sub and find out how much of the entire frequency those Orbs really account for.

  20. #20
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    That might be eye opening. Whats your guess?
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  21. #21
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    Orbaudio.com might have that info I'm pretty sure most of the bass goes to the sub not the speakers

  22. #22
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    I'm more concerned about the mids.
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  23. #23
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    That might be eye opening. Whats your guess?
    It wouldn't surprise me if there was a vacancy in the speakers around 120hz, but you never know until you check.

  24. #24
    cam
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    I just helped a friend install a Mirage Nano-stat 5.1 speaker package, I crossed them over at 120hz with the sub (mirage claims they go down to 110hz) and I could hear a definite hole in the sound. Luckily my buddy knows dick about HT SQ. I would imagine those orbs would be about the same. A crossover at around 150hz would be more like it for those little pip-squeek speakers.

  25. #25
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam
    I just helped a friend install a Mirage Nano-stat 5.1 speaker package, I crossed them over at 120hz with the sub (mirage claims they go down to 110hz) and I could hear a definite hole in the sound. Luckily my buddy knows dick about HT SQ. I would imagine those orbs would be about the same. A crossover at around 150hz would be more like it for those little pip-squeek speakers.
    There is no way with a crossover that high can you keep the mids out of the sub, or place the sub in a place that optimizes its LF output. It would have to sit right in between the speakers, or the whole soundstage would tilt to whatever speaker it sat close to. Also the sub will sonically visible with a crossover that high. Sub/sats this size have far too many compromises for me.
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