Subwoofer Should Be Higher in dB's Than Other Channels?

[Lexmark3200]

In steering away from the "Twister" thread a bit, can someone please lead me in the right direction with regard to subwoofer settings in a surround system? Right now, my sub is sitting at the SAME dB as the main and surround channels in my system, but I have read that some HT enthusiasts believe a sub should be 2 to 3 dB or so higher than all speakers in a system....problem is, in my system, when I had the sub 2 or 3 decibels higher than the rest of the other speakers, I was getting a very nasty "snapping" pop from the sub when loud DVDs were played with aggressive soundtracks -- such as the senator's ship exploding in "Attack of the Clones" (Dolby Digital EX) or the chariots hitting the wall in "Gladiator" (DTS ES). So I lowered the calibration of the sub two decibels and now it seems I dont get that snapping from the sub when playing these DVDs at higher volumes....

If you can follow me so far, based on my information, should a sub be 2 or so decibels higher than the other speakers, as a rule, or can they sit at the same level as the others?

Kelsci suggested this remedy: that when watching films with not so strong bass response, I can bring the level of the sub up in the calibration menu....then when watching strong DVDs with a ton of bass, I can lower the sub back to where it was.

[Bryan]

I run mine 3dbs higher than my mains. It is possible you may not have enough sub for your room, which is why it was bottoming out. However, if you are happy with its performance than kick back, relax, and enjoy!

[wasch_24]

Lex,
I run my LFE at considerably less dB than all of my other speakers. I sometimes adjust my LFE output but usually leave it at +1.5 when all other channels are at about +4 or +5. Also the knob on the sub is at about the nine o'clock position, which I gues is about 1/4 of the way up. These settings will not transfer directly to your system because your equipment and especially your room are different than mine. I would just take some time and experimant. You probably won't even have one setting that satifies your needs for every movie but once you find a good starting point you will know which way to adjust for each movie in the future.

P.S.
Because of your Twister thread I went out and bought it. The bass is present, but not like U571. I think the thing is that tere is no requirement for specific levels or frequencies of bass for soundtracks. Every movie is different.

[Lexmark3200]

I run mine 3dbs higher than my mains. It is possible you may not have enough sub for your room, which is why it was bottoming out. However, if you are happy with its performance than kick back, relax, and enjoy!

Bryan,

Thank you.....yes, I have been considering the possibility that my sub is not enough to feed my room, which I didnt think, originally, was going to be a problem because I am in a studio apartment, and my sub is a 10"....

How does your sub perform overall 3 dBs higher than your mains? Is this a rule of thumb in HT, or just how it sounds best in our individual systems?

[cam]

Bryan,

Thank you.....yes, I have been considering the possibility that my sub is not enough to feed my room, which I didnt think, originally, was going to be a problem because I am in a studio apartment, and my sub is a 10"....

How does your sub perform overall 3 dBs higher than your mains? Is this a rule of thumb in HT, or just how it sounds best in our individual systems?

Hey Lex, I run my sub 4db higher then my mains and my mains will crap out before my sub, with my crossover set at 80 hz where it sounds best. I can relieve my mains a bit with a setting of 100 or 120hz but the overall sound is not as good as a setting of 80. The higher the setting the more your sub will have to work and your mains will get an easier load.

[stuartlittle]

Sounds like you are pushing your sub past it's limits. Don't worry about what you "should" do in terms of the sub being a few db higher, go with what sounds right. With that in mind, if you need louder, that snapping is almost definitely the sub telling you that she's giving ya all she's got, captain.

[Lexmark3200]

Sounds like you are pushing your sub past it's limits. Don't worry about what you "should" do in terms of the sub being a few db higher, go with what sounds right. With that in mind, if you need louder, that snapping is almost definitely the sub telling you that she's giving ya all she's got, captain.

Thanks Stuart; thats what I think Im going to do....just keep it where it sounds right....although for the time being I have been doing what Kelsci has suggested to me, and that is manually raising the subwoofer dB calibration level two notches when playing any DVD other than the ones I know give me trouble, including "Attack of the Clones," "Gladiator" and "U571".....this has seemed to give me more LFE on DVDs which are a bit weaker on the low end, and the best part is that my system does not do what Kelsci suggested would become a pain in the ass ---- that is, needing to switch back to the original sub calibration level after watching DVDs in which I needed to raise the LFE level....on my Onkyo, all I need to do is turn the receiver off at the end of watching a DVD and then the next time I switch the receiver on, the subwoofer level is back at the original sub dB level----the new level setting does not get saved when changing the levels through the remote control. So all I need to do is turn the unit off and on and the original sub settings are still there.

[Bryan]

That's just how I like it. A punch more bass. However, later in the evenings, past 10, I tend to turn it way down out of respect for the neighbors. Still, though, it is rather enjoyable and brings me great satisfaction to play Attack of the Clones or The Two Towers at reference levels and see their reactions as they walk by. (Have a VMPS Large Subwoofer - basically an older version of the New Original Subwoofer - and SVS 20-39CSi both powered by a Samson S700 in a roughly 3k cubic feet place.)

The 3 dbs higher tends to be more of a guideline than anything else but make sure you use a SPL meter rather than your ears.

Perhaps you could look around for a good, used sub, such as one from SVS, HSU, Adire Audio, or VMPS.

[Lexmark3200]

That's just how I like it. A punch more bass. However, later in the evenings, past 10, I tend to turn it way down out of respect for the neighbors. Still, though, it is rather enjoyable and brings me great satisfaction to play Attack of the Clones or The Two Towers at reference levels and see their reactions as they walk by. (Have a VMPS Large Subwoofer - basically an older version of the New Original Subwoofer - and SVS 20-39CSi both powered by a Samson S700 in a roughly 3k cubic feet place.)

The 3 dbs higher tends to be more of a guideline than anything else but make sure you use a SPL meter rather than your ears.

Perhaps you could look around for a good, used sub, such as one from SVS, HSU, Adire Audio, or VMPS.

Thanks.

[axelsrd]

Thanks.

I just bought paradigm mini monitors for front and paradigm titans for rear. The sales person told me to use the setup menu from my denon 2803. He told me to set speakers to small and in the speaker level option set fronts, center, and rears to 0.0 and then set the sub to + 2/3 db. I did that and everything seems to be fine. What I haven't done yet and don't understand is the use of a db meter for calibration. How and why should this concern me???

[Lexmark3200]

I just bought paradigm mini monitors for front and paradigm titans for rear. The sales person told me to use the setup menu from my denon 2803. He told me to set speakers to small and in the speaker level option set fronts, center, and rears to 0.0 and then set the sub to + 2/3 db. I did that and everything seems to be fine. What I haven't done yet and don't understand is the use of a db meter for calibration. How and why should this concern me???

Yeah, I also heard that "0" was the reference point on speaker calibration; however, on MY specific receiver, setting all channels to zero allows no real power to "develop" when playing DVDs or even music---the receiver would need to be turned up to almost "80" on the volume display if the calibration levels were on 0 to get any reasonable sound from it....and so my system was set up by a fellow HT enthusiast who felt that "+6" on all channels except the center, which was set at "+8", was a good level to develop power from this receiver.

[topspeed]

I just bought paradigm mini monitors for front and paradigm titans for rear. The sales person told me to use the setup menu from my denon 2803. He told me to set speakers to small and in the speaker level option set fronts, center, and rears to 0.0 and then set the sub to + 2/3 db. I did that and everything seems to be fine. What I haven't done yet and don't understand is the use of a db meter for calibration. How and why should this concern me???

Congrats on your new rig. The salesman sounds like he couldn't hit a lake if he was standing on the bottom. A sound pressure level (SPL) meter can be purchased from your local Radio Shack (or online) for $25-35 dollars and is well worth the investment. Get an analog instead of digital one, it's more accurate apparently. It is essentially a mic with a meter that tells you what the volume, for lack of a more technical term, is from each speaker at your listening position. This is important because each speaker will NOT be putting out the same spl's to your listening position due to distance, room interaction, etc. regardless of whether your Denon is set to "0" across the board. It's very easy to use and just takes few minutes to do, especially with the system set-up OSD of the 2803. The difference is profound so run, don't walk, and get one. You'll be far more satisfied with your system.

Good luck

[Lexmark3200]

Lex,
I run my LFE at considerably less dB than all of my other speakers. I sometimes adjust my LFE output but usually leave it at +1.5 when all other channels are at about +4 or +5. Also the knob on the sub is at about the nine o'clock position, which I gues is about 1/4 of the way up. These settings will not transfer directly to your system because your equipment and especially your room are different than mine. I would just take some time and experimant. You probably won't even have one setting that satifies your needs for every movie but once you find a good starting point you will know which way to adjust for each movie in the future.

P.S.
Because of your Twister thread I went out and bought it. The bass is present, but not like U571. I think the thing is that tere is no requirement for specific levels or frequencies of bass for soundtracks. Every movie is different.

Wasch,

Sorry for the delay in writing back to you.....glad you liked the Twister review! Yes, I realize that not every DVD is going to have the same impact as others; and lets not even compare any DVD to U571....man, that is a demo masterpiece that DTS soundtrack.