What is secret/s of Theatres

[abulgan]

i have the 6.1 definitive speaker system and Pioneer Receiver,but i wonder that why i can't hear the same or close sound as the theatres,cause when i watch my movie,basses slaps my face,not just hear them also feel them,

my system is like below


Definitive

BP7006's front
C/L/R 1000B center
BP2X surrounds
BP10B back surround
PF15TL+

[Cal Blacksmith]

Ah the downfall of a Mismatched system. To get the same sound quality of a movie theater, (my sound is much better) you need to MOVE AIR and LOTS OF IT. A powered sub in the range of 1000w or more in the average size room should start to get you feeling some of the lower registers. However, the sub needs to be matched to your speakers so there is a seamless handoff from the speakers to the sub. The best speakers in the world will sound like crap if you drive them with crap so you need to get a good pre pro to drive them with. As a start, you will be looking at a mid line or better name brand receiver. Yamaha, Onkyo, Dennon, Pioneer etc. If the MSRP of the receiver is less than $500, the unit might be suspect, then again, this is assuming that you have purchased quality speakers. A base price for speakers might start at MSRP of $700 per pair.

Don’t take the above to only say you need to spend some serious cash to get a high quality setup (though it does and you do) You need to think out the system and buy quality components. You can save lots of money by buying used, or floor demo units.

You might also want to kick up the quality of the feeling by installing “butt kickers” these are basically “speakers” that transmit the vibrations of bass to your chair, thus helping you to “feel” the sound. These will of course, require their own amps.

There is no shortcut to audio nirvana. You can settle for what you have or a HTIB setup with “cube” speakers that cost Bloes pennies to make and sell for BIG BUCKS, or you can step up to the plate and get serious. The choice is yours and you must be happy with the results, again, your choice.

Room placement has lots to do with the results also, not to mention sonic room treatments. Your equipment seems like it should be up to the task but perhaps it needs to be moved around a little to make the most of it. I have no hands on experence with your equipment but lots with other brands. I prefer to have seperate sub/speakers so I can't help you with proper placement of your units. Good luck.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Ah the downfall of a Mismatched system. To get the same sound quality of a movie theater, (my sound is much better) you need to MOVE AIR and LOTS OF IT. A powered sub in the range of 1000w or more in the average size room should start to get you feeling some of the lower registers. However, the sub needs to be matched to your speakers so there is a seamless handoff from the speakers to the sub. The best speakers in the world will sound like crap if you drive them with crap so you need to get a good pre pro to drive them with. As a start, you will be looking at a mid line or better name brand receiver. Yamaha, Onkyo, Dennon, Pioneer etc. If the MSRP of the receiver is less than $500, the unit might be suspect, then again, this is assuming that you have purchased quality speakers. A base price for speakers might start at MSRP of $700 per pair


Don’t take the above to only say you need to spend some serious cash to get a high quality setup (though it does and you do) You need to think out the system and buy quality components. You can save lots of money by buying used, or floor demo units.

You might also want to kick up the quality of the feeling by installing “butt kickers” these are basically “speakers” that transmit the vibrations of bass to your chair, thus helping you to “feel” the sound. These will of course, require their own amps.

There is no shortcut to audio nirvana. You can settle for what you have or a HTIB setup with “cube” speakers that cost Bloes pennies to make and sell for BIG BUCKS, or you can step up to the plate and get serious. The choice is yours and you must be happy with the results, again, your choice.

Room placement has lots to do with the results also, not to mention sonic room treatments. Your equipment seems like it should be up to the task but perhaps it needs to be moved around a little to make the most of it. I have no hands on experence with your equipment but lots with other brands. I prefer to have seperate sub/speakers so I can't help you with proper placement of your units. Good luck.

No disrespect to ya man, but this gentlemen does have a seperate sub in his system. His system is matched, and a 1000watt sub is an overkill of epic proportion in a average size room. Equidistant placement, calibration, and frequency correction in the sub should be his first tasks. His equipment is fully capable of giving him the "theater" sound if this is done.

[abulgan]

Ah the downfall of a Mismatched system. To get the same sound quality of a movie theater, (my sound is much better) you need to MOVE AIR and LOTS OF IT. A powered sub in the range of 1000w or more in the average size room should start to get you feeling some of the lower registers. However, the sub needs to be matched to your speakers so there is a seamless handoff from the speakers to the sub. The best speakers in the world will sound like crap if you drive them with crap so you need to get a good pre pro to drive them with. As a start, you will be looking at a mid line or better name brand receiver. Yamaha, Onkyo, Dennon, Pioneer etc. If the MSRP of the receiver is less than $500, the unit might be suspect, then again, this is assuming that you have purchased quality speakers. A base price for speakers might start at MSRP of $700 per pair.

Don’t take the above to only say you need to spend some serious cash to get a high quality setup (though it does and you do) You need to think out the system and buy quality components. You can save lots of money by buying used, or floor demo units.

You might also want to kick up the quality of the feeling by installing “butt kickers” these are basically “speakers” that transmit the vibrations of bass to your chair, thus helping you to “feel” the sound. These will of course, require their own amps.

There is no shortcut to audio nirvana. You can settle for what you have or a HTIB setup with “cube” speakers that cost Bloes pennies to make and sell for BIG BUCKS, or you can step up to the plate and get serious. The choice is yours and you must be happy with the results, again, your choice.

Room placement has lots to do with the results also, not to mention sonic room treatments. Your equipment seems like it should be up to the task but perhaps it needs to be moved around a little to make the most of it. I have no hands on experence with your equipment but lots with other brands. I prefer to have seperate sub/speakers so I can't help you with proper placement of your units. Good luck.

mismatched system?what do u mean?

my Receiver costs $1500

what is your system then?

[emorphien]

Ah the downfall of a Mismatched system. To get the same sound quality of a movie theater, (my sound is much better) you need to MOVE AIR and LOTS OF IT. A powered sub in the range of 1000w or more in the average size room should start to get you feeling some of the lower registers. However, the sub needs to be matched to your speakers so there is a seamless handoff from the speakers to the sub. The best speakers in the world will sound like crap if you drive them with crap so you need to get a good pre pro to drive them with. As a start, you will be looking at a mid line or better name brand receiver. Yamaha, Onkyo, Dennon, Pioneer etc. If the MSRP of the receiver is less than $500, the unit might be suspect, then again, this is assuming that you have purchased quality speakers. A base price for speakers might start at MSRP of $700 per pair.

well that gave me the giggles!

[bfalls]

Is it only the bass you feel isn't like a theater? I would think with the BP7006's bipolar design you would have possible imaging problems. Bipolars are OK for the rear, except maybe for DVD-Audio or SACD, but in front I'd think they would confuse the directional cues of the source material. I know for two-channel they're supposed to provide "air" or other ambience, but do you really want that in the front?

[Cal Blacksmith]

A note in my defense, I was giving a MINIMUM starting point, by no means an end all, be all system. I noted room placement was important as well as room treatments. I also pointed out that his equipment should have been able to get the sound he was asking for. The comment about the sub came from a mistake I made on the definitive website and looked at the construction of thehttp://www.definitivetech.com/images...-Breakthru.jpg
insted of his bp7006.

Too many people try to get high quality sound from bottom line equipment and wonder why it isn't working for them. All I was trying to do was get people to set their sights a bit higher. If that brought amusement to some of you, well I am glad I was able to brighten your day.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

A note in my defense, I was giving a MINIMUM starting point, by no means an end all, be all system. I noted room placement was important as well as room treatments. I also pointed out that his equipment should have been able to get the sound he was asking for. The comment about the sub came from a mistake I made on the definitive website and looked at the construction of thehttp://www.definitivetech.com/images...-Breakthru.jpg
insted of his bp7006.

Well, room treatments and bipolar speakers do not make good bedfellows. The bipolar design interacts with the walls of the room to create a larger image than what is possible with a monopolar speakers. If room treatments are put in the wrong place, it defeats the purpose of the design, and can change its frequency response as well.

Too many people try to get high quality sound from bottom line equipment and wonder why it isn't working for them. All I was trying to do was get people to set their sights a bit higher. If that brought amusement to some of you, well I am glad I was able to brighten your day.

I agree with your point here, but quality equipment does not necessarily have to carry a high price.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

i have the 6.1 definitive speaker system and Pioneer Receiver,but i wonder that why i can't hear the same or close sound as the theatres,cause when i watch my movie,basses slaps my face,not just hear them also feel them,

my system is like below


Definitive

BP7006's front
C/L/R 1000B center
BP2X surrounds
BP10B back surround
PF15TL+

My first suggestion to you is to check the placement of your speakers. Each speaker should be equal distance from the listening position, or electronically corrected for equi-distant placment using delay. Your surrounds should be directly to the sides of the listening position. Sub should be located in the corners, and adjusted in or out to get a correct balance. Secondly the whole system should be correctly calibrated using a SPL meter, and your receiver internal test tones. Your sub should be frequency corrected (no sub will have a smooth response in any room) using test tones, aquiring a parametric EQ, and dialing in filters for correction. Once you do these things, you will be surprised at the "theater" like quality you can attain from your system.

[topspeed]

I agree with SirT.

Your rig is fine, it just needs to be tuned to your room. Your mains are bipolar which mean:
1) You have to be very careful with where you place them if you want their full measure
2) That placement is going to likely be fairly out into the room.

Pay attention to how the rig is interacting with the room. That's sub should be plenty unless you're a bassaholic, so try moving it into the corners to get some reinforcement. This may not give you the most accurate bass, but it will likely feel a lot more powerful. Like T said, you can also get an EQ such as a Behringer Feedback Destroyer ($100) to help even things out.

After all that, if you were really looking for dynamics that will trigger an involuntary bowel movement, you should have bought some Altec Voice of the Theaters and been done with it.

[Woochifer]

As Terrence said, rounding up the equipment is only the starting point. Just as important is getting everything setup correctly. That entails speaker placement, proper level matching, getting the processor/receiver settings right, and optimizing the low frequencies around issues with the room dimensions/acoustical properties.

In actuality, a home theater should be able to produce much higher sound quality than at a typical movie theater because 1) you can optimize the speaker alignment to your listening position; 2) the surround effect on 5.1 DVDs is often remixed to create a more immersive and directional sound effect than the more diffused effect that theatrical surround arrays create; 3) with a smaller room, you can go with speakers that have more even and balanced tonal characteristics than typical theatrical screen speakers, which have to be designed to deliver a higher maximum output; 4) a smaller room can create much stronger bass reinforcement, if the room acoustics allow.

The speaker placement that you should try to start with is shown below. That's the ITU reference speaker alignment, and because it's commonly used in studio settings, you run a pretty good chance of this alignment producing an optimal surround effect.



Dolby's guidelines suggest that if you use your surrounds for both music and movies, you should elevate the surround speakers about 2' above ear level and pointed directly at one another. This gives you a pretty good diffusion for older movie soundtracks that primarily use the surround tracks for ambient and environmental sounds, while preserving the deliberate imaging cues in the surrounds that get mixed into newer movie soundtracks and multichannel music. In my tweaking, I've found that going about 1' above ear level works fine.

In your system, you might have a problem with the back surrounds blending in with the other surround speakers because it looks like you're using bipolar tower speakers.

Getting the bass right is difficult in a small to medium sized room because the longer wave lengths on low frequencies will create interactions that will alternately boost and cancel out the bass at different frequencies, AND these effects will vary by location within the room. For your system, you have powered subs on your front tower speakers PLUS a 15" powered sub. There's no reason whatsoever that you shouldn't be able to create enough bass to blow your hair back.

I strongly suggest that you go to Radio Shack and buy a SPL meter. You need to calibrate all of the speaker levels on your system, and calibrate the subwoofer at least +4 db above the levels for the other speakers. You can also use the SPL meter to measure how much the bass response varies on your system. Peaks and valleys in the lower frequency response curve are typically created by the room acoustics. The only ways around this are to reposition the subwoofer, install room treatments such as corner bass traps, and/or parametric equalization.

With a 15" sub, you should be able to create very deep bass in a typical room. Keep in mind also that a lot of movie theaters pump the subwoofer levels way above where they should be. This might sound impressive because of how much it shakes you in your seat, but it's far from accurate, and is often done to mask inadequacies in the subwoofer array for a room of that size. As with the imaging coherency and tonal balance, you can obtain higher quality bass at home than all but the best showcase movie theater sound systems. Ideally, you want bass that's extended, full, and even. You don't want boomy "one note" bass.

With your setup, you got a lot of steps that you need to go through. First and foremost, you need to level match your speakers and subwoofer. Next, you need to decide how you want the bass management on your receiver to operate -- do you want to send a full range signal to the mains and surrounds, while using the subwoofer only for the LFE track? Or do you want to crossover the bass away from the speakers and direct all of it into the subwoofer? I would guess that you will get more bass by setting the speakers to small and sending all of the bass+LFE thru the subwoofer.

Another thing you should try is turning off the powered subs on your tower speakers (or just setting the main speakers to SMALL). It's possible that the low frequency waves emanating from the towers' subwoofers are cancelling out the 15" subwoofer at specific frequencies, which can make the overall bass sound weak.

A lot of things to look out for, but I'm pretty sure that any deficiencies in your bass have more to do with the setup than the equipment itself.

[EdwardGein]

You could have everything exactly the same in your home as a theaters, same sound system & accoustics, but psychologically it still probably wouldn't sound the same. Haven't you ever heard a song at a party or when watching a game (IE I'm So Excited) that doesn't sound the same when you're at home listening by yourself. Sounds totally different because you have a different mindset.

[Woochifer]

You could have everything exactly the same in your home as a theaters, same sound system & accoustics, but psychologically it still probably wouldn't sound the same. Haven't you ever heard a song at a party or when watching a game (IE I'm So Excited) that doesn't sound the same when you're at home listening by yourself. Sounds totally different because you have a different mindset.

All psychological? Nope.

Example makes no sense given that a home cannot possibly have identical acoustical conditions to a movie theater unless your home has a room as large as a typical theater auditorium and uses the same amount of acoustical controls. And even then, the acoustical conditions can NEVER be identical for the scenarios that you portray because 1) a crowded movie theater will sound different from an empty one with one person -- humans have different absorptive/reflective properties than empty seats; and 2) the soundtracks purposed for theatrical exhibition and for home use might sound very different.

Sure, we will hear things differently under different conditions. But, the reality is that home theater systems are designed differently from theatrical systems, the alignments (and therefore the imaging) differ, the room dimensions and acoustical properties differ, and the soundtracks differ. With all of these uncontrolled variables and clearly measurable variations in the acoustical properties of large rooms versus small-to-medium sized rooms and crowded rooms versus empty rooms, it's impossible for perceived audible differences to be completely "psychological" and "all in your head."

[dav305z]

I'm new to all this, but there is something to be said about the acoustics of the threatre itself. You can have the exact same equipment, but you don't have a room designed with optimal sound in mind.

[emorphien]

I imagine with the prices of modern home audio components at the lower/entry level end (which by no means means "bad" components) you could get an experience as fulfilling as most theaters (and better than many) for less than $3000 these days that would satisfy most people but perhaps not audiophiles.

[kexodusc]

I imagine with the prices of modern home audio components at the lower/entry level end (which by no means means "bad" components) you could get an experience as fulfilling as most theaters (and better than many) for less than $3000 these days that would satisfy most people but perhaps not audiophiles.

I'd agree with this. I've heard systems that outperform many modern theaters put together for under $2000. I think most decent brand names entry level offerings are on par with a lot of theaters. I've heard some HTIB's in smaller rooms that were convincing enough as well.
I'm sure if you hit the used market you could do much better than that. One of the nice things about home theater is the advantages reasonably sized rooms present. Below 225 sq ft, which is mid-sized by most standards, and you don't need huge speakers and big wattage.

[Eric Z]

abulgan, as others have said, nothing is wrong with your receiver and speakers- i actually really enjoy definitive speakers and your set-up can definitely sound amazing! as the other posters said, try adjusting the set-up of your system- be sure the speakers are all set to a similar level with a SPL meter and play around with your sub so you get it just right- i had to adjust my sub a few times before the crossover at the level i liked it.

fyi, i have some older mirage speakers (frx series) and spent less that $600 on the fronts, center, and surrounds- i enjoy it much more than the theater! aside from the sound, i enjoy not dealing with other people talking or getting up in front of me or not being able to find a seat

[abulgan]

thanks guys

i've just ordered a SPL meter from RadioShack,but analog one is better than Digital?whatever,i adjust everything again,also disable all EQ and Tone setting on receiver to get natural sound the real sound
but is there software or something like that,ex.connect a mic(my receiver has one )to your pc or laptop to measure room's acoustic,size vs. like an Analyzer

[paul_pci]

With the analog spl meter you can see the levels peak, whereas with the digital you can't really see that. Given that the meter is designed to measure volume, so that you can level match all speakers at the same volume (75db), then you should run the test tones with the attenidng eq and tone controls that you'd normally listen to. Do you have a test disk? A receivers internal test tones aren't ideal for this purpose.

[SlumpBuster]

I have the digital RS SPL meter. I actually perfer it. Its display is easier to read and it responds to level shifts and peaks quick enough for me.

www.rivesaudio.com has a test CD specifically designed for the RadioShack meter. The website also provides nice instructions. Also, lots of good how-to and calibration articles on www.audioholics.com

Take the time and have fun with it, because as the others have suggested, when your done, your system should easily better any movie theater.

[abulgan]

yes i have two Test discs,one AIVA(or somethıng like that)and other one is DVE
but when adjustin' or leveling DB s of Speakers,the receivers volume should be at ???what???
mine has volume -80 to +20db i think

also i disable Tone and EQ to natural sound(flat sound)

[paul_pci]

yes i have two Test discs,one AIVA(or someth?ng like that)and other one is DVE
but when adjustin' or leveling DB s of Speakers,the receivers volume should be at ???what???
mine has volume -80 to +20db i think

also i disable Tone and EQ to natural sound(flat sound)

the specific volume # will vary from receiver to receiver, but you want to get a 75db reading on the speakers. Usually, you use the main L/R speakers as the reference point. That is, crank up the volume to the test tones from DVE register 75db on the L/R and then get the readings from the remaining speakers and adjust each channel's volume until they all register 75db. Then you put the receiver's volume back to typical listening position.

[abulgan]

guy i sold my SW and using now 2 Built-in subs,each has 8" woofer and pair of radiator with 300 Class D amp,so total 600watts,hope this is enough

and i've just received the SPL meter and adjusted all channel levels by that,80 db speakers and 85 db for SW,bass is not enough 4 me now,or gott used much more Bass when making levels by Ear,cause SW's r now at mininum according Meter which was near Max.

[Woochifer]

Keep in mind that the bass response from where your tower speakers are located will likely have an entirely different response curve from the bass that emanated from your sub. This is a byproduct of the room acoustics and the boundary reinforcement. A corner placement (where subwoofers are likely located) will have a far more reinforced bass than something located along the middle of the front wall (where the imaging is typically optimal, but bass reinforcement is minimized). In most typical rooms, these two locations will also produce very different sounding bass.

If you feel that having your subwoofer output set to +4 db is not enough, then you need to check and make sure that you don't have a boomy peak somewhere in the bass response. With a wideband test tone, a large peak somewhere in that response curve will drive up the overall level reading that you get from the SPL meter. This means that for most of the bass range, the level will be too low, but for those problem frequencies, the levels will be way too high. These peaks are caused by the room acoustics, and will vary depending on where your seating position is located relative to the speaker location.

The only solution to this problem is to move the speakers, change your seating position, or use a combination of room treatments and equalization.

Another issue that you need to double check is to make sure that everything is setup and connected properly, and that the measurement was done correctly. With your speakers, do they have separate subwoofer inputs, or do they only have the speaker wire connections? Is the test tone from a CD or from the receiver's tone generator? Do you have your speakers set to large or small? Those all factor into whether you have other adjustments that you need to make before ascertaining whether your bass is actually at the correct level.

[Woochifer]

Since your speakers have a separate LFE input for the built-in subwoofers, you should set all of the speakers on your receiver's bass management settings to SMALL and have the bass output from both the L/C/R/LS/RS speakers and the LFE track directed into the receiver's subwoofer output. This will direct all of the lower frequencies into your tower speakers' subwoofers.

Once you've done this, then use either a calibration DVD or your receiver's tone generator with a SPL meter to set the levels. If you feel that the bass output is too small with the subwoofer set to +4, then you can simply raise it. If there are still issues with how full or even the bass sounds, then you will need to use that Rives disc and measure your lower frequency response. Any peaks and dips that you see are room related, and will keep you from obtaining an accurate SPL reading with a wideband test tone like the one that your receiver puts out.

Like I said earlier, you might need to consider moving the speakers around, changing your seating location, using bass traps in the corners, or equalizing the sub.