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  1. #1
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    Setting Center Speaker DBs 1+1=3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Here is the paradoxical question of the day & would welcome any answers on this one for this specific situation. Whether you like Orb Audio speakers or not, I'm planning because of the way I've respaced/reheightened my 5.1 Orb Mod 1 speakers, to have the Center Speaker be an Orb Mod 2 speaker, which is basically 2 Mod 1 speakers combined that obviously produce alot more volume then just 1 Mod 1 Speaker. Assume hypothetically, the DB levels for the left front & right front speaker is 0, and for arguments sake, say they were set by an SPL reader.
    Furthermore assume the original center Mod1 Speaker was 0. If I use an SPL on this for the Mod 2 Center, I'm essentially lowering the DB's till it matches the original Mod 1 which defeats the whole purpose unless I'm totally misinterpreting something. In general, if you replace your center speaker with a more powerful one, shouldn't the DB's on this new more powerful speaker be a lot lower including a minus level? Help I admit I'm totally confused.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    I'm guessing you don't have the speaker yet and you're just racking your brain about it. Yes, you're confused about something. You're equating size/shape with volume which is not always the case. My guess is that what may be the biggest difference will be the dispersion, the fuller, wider, maybe more open sound from the speaker, and not necessarily the volume. And put this in your notebook: volume is measured by the specification called "sensitivity." If two different speakers have the same resistance (8ohms) and the same sensitivity X, then they'll likely play approximately at the same volume. If the sensitivity of the Mod 2 were to be X+1, then you'd adjust the dbs accordingly. You'll also have to correct for room interaction, acoustics, etc. But size and shape are not a strict indicator of which speaker will play louder at a set volume. Regardless, you do want to go through the test tones with the spl first and then adjust with your ears next. Did you pick up a test disc, or are you using the receivers test tone?

  3. #3
    Forum Regular anamorphic96's Avatar
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    Did you ever contact Orb about the differences in the Mod 1 and Mod 2 ?

    Sounds like Orb wires these in parallel. Which creates the 4 ohm load that Orb states. This 4 ohm load requires a bit more current. Which probably explains why the level is not the same . If anything you probably had to increase the level to match the left and right.

    Call Orb. They could explain it better. But I would imagine the scenario I stated is probably what they are going to tell you as well.

  4. #4
    AR Member JeffKnob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    Here is the paradoxical question of the day & would welcome any answers on this one for this specific situation. Whether you like Orb Audio speakers or not, I'm planning because of the way I've respaced/reheightened my 5.1 Orb Mod 1 speakers, to have the Center Speaker be an Orb Mod 2 speaker, which is basically 2 Mod 1 speakers combined that obviously produce alot more volume then just 1 Mod 1 Speaker. Assume hypothetically, the DB levels for the left front & right front speaker is 0, and for arguments sake, say they were set by an SPL reader.
    Furthermore assume the original center Mod1 Speaker was 0. If I use an SPL on this for the Mod 2 Center, I'm essentially lowering the DB's till it matches the original Mod 1 which defeats the whole purpose unless I'm totally misinterpreting something. In general, if you replace your center speaker with a more powerful one, shouldn't the DB's on this new more powerful speaker be a lot lower including a minus level? Help I admit I'm totally confused.
    You say you are my superior but for some reason the answer to this is just common sense to me.

  5. #5
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    Your A Troll Jeff Knob

    You are officially banned from reading anything I post & from posting your Troll comments on them by the Commisoner of Major League Baseball.
    Last edited by EdwardGein; 03-14-2006 at 06:51 PM.

  6. #6
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    Here is the paradoxical question of the day & would welcome any answers on this one for this specific situation. Whether you like Orb Audio speakers or not, I'm planning because of the way I've respaced/reheightened my 5.1 Orb Mod 1 speakers, to have the Center Speaker be an Orb Mod 2 speaker, which is basically 2 Mod 1 speakers combined that obviously produce alot more volume then just 1 Mod 1 Speaker. Assume hypothetically, the DB levels for the left front & right front speaker is 0, and for arguments sake, say they were set by an SPL reader.
    Furthermore assume the original center Mod1 Speaker was 0. If I use an SPL on this for the Mod 2 Center, I'm essentially lowering the DB's till it matches the original Mod 1 which defeats the whole purpose unless I'm totally misinterpreting something. In general, if you replace your center speaker with a more powerful one, shouldn't the DB's on this new more powerful speaker be a lot lower including a minus level? Help I admit I'm totally confused.
    Yeah, if the Mod 2 has a higher sensitivity, it will play louder per watt of power than a speaker with lower sensitivity. This is good...Less tax on the amplifier, and possibly more dynamic sound from the speaker.
    I'm guessing this new speaker will have a better tonal balance, frequency response, or dispersion patter, if not all 3. Probably a worthwhile upgrade for a home theater.

  7. #7
    Forum Regular anamorphic96's Avatar
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    The sensitivity is the same at 89db. The impedance is 4ohms for the Mod 2 and 8ohms for the Mod 1. I was thinking even though the sensitivity was the same the impedance change was asking for a bit more from the amp.

    I think I misread his original post. If he is lowering the center level from the original that makes sense due to the second driver. I read it as he was wondering why he was not having to lower the level.

    Oh well !!!!

    Ed, What did Orb say about the differences between Mod 1 and 2 ?

  8. #8
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    Keko But Should the DB level be set to Minuses?

    Can you give me your best guess on this. Should the DB level, assuming hypothetically the left & right front speakers are set at 0, then be set to say a minus 2 or something? This is where I'm totally confused, especially as I'd be replacing 1 speaker with essentially 2 of the same speakers? Thanks

  9. #9
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    Nobody could give you a ballpark guess because the volume you hear in the listening position is also relative to the room acoustics; it's not solely dependent on the specifications or size of the speakers in question.

    If you like the new center, you should consider going Mod2 all around for a balance and coherent soundfield.

  10. #10
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    Can you give me your best guess on this. Should the DB level, assuming hypothetically the left & right front speakers are set at 0, then be set to say a minus 2 or something? This is where I'm totally confused, especially as I'd be replacing 1 speaker with essentially 2 of the same speakers? Thanks
    Ed,

    For the purposes of helping you understand what's going on I'll try to answer this.

    Assuming your left & right speakers are set at 0, and assuming the new Mod 2 is more efficient (has higher sensitivity, plays louder per watt of power), then yes, your center channel would probably be set to a minus.

    But that's a very simple explanation. Depending how far away from the speaker you are, and how close to the walls your left, right, and center channels are (proximity to walls can reinforce sound as reflections increase the loudness), your new, louder center channel might still need to be set at 0, or possibly higher.

    Ed, your speaker system was designed to work best when all the channels were level matched. The designers assume you would be properly balancing your channels to maximize their performance. You should consider buying an SPL meter, maybe a used one on ebay. The radio shack SPL meters typically go for $25-$30 or so plus shipping, so it might be easier to buy it new in store. But a lot of people also use the Extech SPL meters. They go for $15-$20 usually, and are 98% as good for balancing speaker levels. Most humans can't get all 5 speakers withing 3 dB of each other. My best guess was waaaaayyy off, I won't even post it here. For the benefit it would provide, it's well worth the money...time to take back some bottles.

  11. #11
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    I'll probably go the SPL route again & then fine tune based on my actual hearing but what I'm still confused is, if hypothetically the Mod 2 Center Speaker is twice the volume of the Mod 1 Speaker & the rest of my speakers are Mod 1's, won't the DBs per the SPL's in effect for the Mod 2, reduce it back to the level of the Mod 1 & if so then I don't need the Mod 2!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    I'll probably go the SPL route again & then fine tune based on my actual hearing but what I'm still confused is, if hypothetically the Mod 2 Center Speaker is twice the volume of the Mod 1 Speaker & the rest of my speakers are Mod 1's, won't the DBs per the SPL's in effect for the Mod 2, reduce it back to the level of the Mod 1 & if so then I don't need the Mod 2!
    Well, yes. If you were to introduce any center channel speaker ever made into your system to replace the Mod 1, the level would have to be set so that the output is the same as what the Mod 1 should be.

    But that doesn't matter. Just because you reduce the volume, doesn't mean that the sound quality and dispersion pattern of that speaker won't be better.
    Think of it like this. You could listen to your TV's built-in speakers at 70 dB loudness, and your Orbs at 70 dB loudness. But I assume the Orbs will sound better, fill the room more, and not sound crappy the further off-axis you go. The Mod 2, if it is a better speaker should be an improvement over the Mod 1. It should sound better at the same volume. If it isn't better, why do they even make it?

  13. #13
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    Ed,I was using the Energy C-C1 center on my main system and upgraded to the C-C3. There was an instant improvement. Just as Kex was saying, the better speaker is gonna be just that, at any volume.

  14. #14
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    I think a SPL Meter will take the guessing out of it,thats why most have and use them. I go back to mine all the time. +/- on the speaker setup means nothing as long as they are reaching you at the same DB,70,75 or what ever you want to set them at.
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  15. #15
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffKnob
    You say you are my superior but for some reason the answer to this is just common sense to me.
    So use your common sense and just give a answer or is it just to tough to do? Your the only one to not be able to handle it. I'd ban you to.
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  16. #16
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Did I miss something here? Anamorphic states that the sensitivity is 89dB's, whether mod1 or mod2, therefore all things created equal, the setting should be same across the front stage. Yes, yes, I know all about room reinforcement, but for the sake of simplicity let's just take that out of it. If the sensitivity is the same, theoretically Hershon should be getting the same volume output with the mod2. It will likely sound better with more clarity and better dispersion, but for the most part the spl's should be the same.

    If I'm understanding this right, Hershon believes that because the mod2 has more drivers, it will be louder. This is incorrect. More drivers do not equal more volume. More range and/or dispersion perhaps, but not more spl's per watt.

  17. #17
    AR Member JeffKnob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    So use your common sense and just give a answer or is it just to tough to do? Your the only one to not be able to handle it. I'd ban you to.
    That is fine with me. Ban me. No lose here. Some people, including myself, are just tired of the questions and then arguing about the answers. If he doesn't know the answer (which would be the point in the question) then he shouldn't have grounds to argue about the answer. I made the comment based on some things that were said on another thread.

  18. #18
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    Board Monitor: Kick Jeff Knob Off the Internet

    Kindly look at this thread by me Is there any arguments or nasty things said to anyone with the exception of Jeff Knob for trolling. This Knob creature is obsessed with me- sorry, I'm heterosexual & his posts are clearly done strictly for the purpose of trolling. Kindly suspend him.

  19. #19
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffKnob
    That is fine with me. Ban me. No lose here. Some people, including myself, are just tired of the questions and then arguing about the answers. If he doesn't know the answer (which would be the point in the question) then he shouldn't have grounds to argue about the answer. I made the comment based on some things that were said on another thread.
    I'm not going to ban you,i love you.
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  20. #20
    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    Kindly look at this thread by me Is there any arguments or nasty things said to anyone with the exception of Jeff Knob for trolling. This Knob creature is obsessed with me- sorry, I'm heterosexual & his posts are clearly done strictly for the purpose of trolling. Kindly suspend him.
    You have a "Fan Club" Jeff Knob leave EdwardGein alone .Found you perfect match MR Knob right here .
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  21. #21
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Is that a right brain/left brain thing?
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