Receivers vs. separates?

[L.J.]

Wow. Talking about reading my mind. I was going to post the same thread with similar questions. I have been following the recv dilemma thread closely. I will follow this just as close. If I could be so rude and just throw one more question in there, I was wondering would amping your mains off balance your HT setup? Since more power would be going to the mains than the rest of your speakers. Just curious. Sorry for butting in....

[GMichael]

Wow. Talking about reading my mind. I was going to post the same thread with similar questions. I have been following the recv dilemma thread closely. I will follow this just as close. If I could be so rude and just throw one more question in there, I was wondering would amping your mains off balance your HT setup? Since more power would be going to the mains than the rest of your speakers. Just curious. Sorry for butting in....

No problem. Add all the questions you can think of.

My Yammie's auto set up would measure the total volume level coming out of each speaker including the mains with or without an additional amp's help. So I think that would not matter. But they may end up being turned down.
I already have my system set up 2 ways. One for HT and another for 2 channel listening. I can switch back and forth with a touch of a button thanks to it's 6 memory settings. So I would set up the 2 channel as to not turn the mains down.

Good question. Add that to my list of "will a separate do this for me?"

[N. Abstentia]

The Outlaw 950 7.1 preamp comes with a microphone. You plug it in to the front and sit the mic where your head would be and the levels, distance, and I think even crossover points (it has independant crossovers for EACH channel!) are all done for you. It don't get no easier than that.

The 'memory settings' are pretty much a standard feature of any good AV receiver or preamp so that's not a problem. And if I'm not mistaken the Outlaw allows you to have custom settings for each source. So instead of having a blanket 'ht' setup and a blanket 'music' setup, you can set it up for each individual source.

[GMichael]

The Outlaw 950 7.1 preamp comes with a microphone. You plug it in to the front and sit the mic where your head would be and the levels, distance, and I think even crossover points (it has independant crossovers for EACH channel!) are all done for you. It don't get no easier than that.

The 'memory settings' are pretty much a standard feature of any good AV receiver or preamp so that's not a problem. And if I'm not mistaken the Outlaw allows you to have custom settings for each source. So instead of having a blanket 'ht' setup and a blanket 'music' setup, you can set it up for each individual source.

I knew I could count on you Nab. Thanks a bunch!

By the way, sorry I left you off of the most helpful link. My poor a.s oversight.

[nick4433]

The Outlaw 950 7.1 preamp comes with a microphone. You plug it in to the front and sit the mic where your head would be and the levels, distance, and I think even crossover points (it has independant crossovers for EACH channel!) are all done for you. It don't get no easier than that.

The 'memory settings' are pretty much a standard feature of any good AV receiver or preamp so that's not a problem. And if I'm not mistaken the Outlaw allows you to have custom settings for each source. So instead of having a blanket 'ht' setup and a blanket 'music' setup, you can set it up for each individual source.

NaB, do you mean the Outlaw 990?

[N. Abstentia]

NaB, do you mean the Outlaw 990?

Yes I do mean the 990..sorry about that

[swgiust]

You have a nice system put together. The first question is are you unhappy with the
way it sounds now? It doesn't sound like you are.

Second, is what level of performance can you expect from what you have?

Good quality receiver,
Good quality speakers.

Nice balance.

Adding separate amps and pre/pro's would be to your advantage IF you are going
to upgrade you Primus speakers. If not, you would NEVER hear the difference in
the system you have.

Take the time, set it up right, and enjoy.

[GMichael]

You have a nice system put together. The first question is are you unhappy with the
way it sounds now? It doesn't sound like you are.

Second, is what level of performance can you expect from what you have?

Good quality receiver,
Good quality speakers.

Nice balance.

Adding separate amps and pre/pro's would be to your advantage IF you are going
to upgrade you Primus speakers. If not, you would NEVER hear the difference in
the system you have.

Take the time, set it up right, and enjoy.

hahahaha, You are so riiiight. I do love my system. Thank you for saying it's nice.
But I made a HUGE mistake a few months back. I walked into a high end stereo store. They had a pair of maggies on the wall. Couldn't believe my ears. They sounded like the band was in the room with me.
Eventually my current system will end up in my new basement (after that's built) and a new system will be needed for upstairs. No budget at this point but it never hurts to think ahead. If I build a system from scratch it will end up with Maggies. I saw the new RX-V4600 came out and has the amps to drive maggies. Would still add an extra amp for the mains. But if a sepperate "sounds" better, then I want to at least consider it.

[mazdamanic]

hahahaha, You are so riiiight. I do love my system. Thank you for saying it's nice.
But I made a HUGE mistake a few months back. I walked into a high end stereo store. They had a pair of maggies on the wall. Couldn't believe my ears. They sounded like the band was in the room with me.
Eventually my current system will end up in my new basement (after that's built) and a new system will be needed for upstairs. No budget at this point but it never hurts to think ahead. If I build a system from scratch it will end up with Maggies. I saw the new RX-V4600 came out and has the amps to drive maggies. Would still add an extra amp for the mains. But if a sepperate "sounds" better, then I want to at least consider it.

Hey GMichael, if you are considering Maggies in the future forget about receivers and consider some serious and clean amplification like Rotel, Parasound, B&K etc but above all you have got to have a top notch line stage to realize the full potential of maggies.

[L.J.]

So the benefits to amping the mains would be for musical purposes since HT requires a calibration of the speaker levels?

Would lets say 200 watts at the same level of 100 watts make a huge difference than overall sound?

I was also wondering whats the difference in using a pre/pro+amp combo vs. using a avr with preouts+amps?


Please understand the I come from a world of BB,CC and Gguys and all this is extremely new to me.

[kexodusc]

So the benefits to amping the mains would be for musical purposes since HT requires a calibration of the speaker levels?

Not exactly...more amplification adds more headroom and better sound and control over the speakers for any purpose, music or home theater. At lower volumes the differences will be very small, maybe not noticeable. But as you start to go louder you can hear notice improvements rather quickly.

Would lets say 200 watts at the same level of 100 watts make a huge difference than overall sound?

No. IMO, double the power isn't really enough of an improvement. IF a 100 watt amp is at its limits where sound quality starts to deteriorate, a 200 watt amp isn't really that far away. It's more of a small difference. For some speakers though, 200 watts will be enough where 100 watts might not be. Usually people are advised to at least double power when upgrading amps (all other things equal), but a factor of 2 X isn't that much when it comes to power.

I was also wondering whats the difference in using a pre/pro+amp combo vs. using a avr with preouts+amps?

Pre-pros generally should have a better pre-amp stage, especially for analog sources. Just a bit finer musical quality. Amps amplify signals they receive from the pre-amps, so if the pre-amp signal is better, the output from the amp should be better. For digital sources, the differences are much smaller usually. For analog they can be significant, especially if you're connecting a turntable with phono inputs in my experience. Huge difference.

[GMichael]

Thanks Kex,

A very thorough explanation. I think I have most of it now.

Pre-pro = better for music (especially analog) (5 to 10%, maybe a little more)?
Pre-pro = a little better for HT & digital. (less than 5%)?
AVR = better for your wallet, most of the time.
Variables = brand & model of pre-pro, speakers, amp(s) & receiver.
Budget & personal preferances = biggest difference.
Your experience & assistance = invaluable!

By the way, I do like the system I have now very much. I'm still amazed at how good it sounds each time I turn it on. But if better is available? Sure would like to have it. (if it doesn't bust my budget)
Time will tell on the budget. System number 3 will be based on that when the time comes.

[kexodusc]

GMichael: Don't put too much stock into the exact % figures I use...Just trying to make a point it's not a 2 X or 1.5 X difference....Still well worth it in many cases to many people...

[GMichael]

No problem. Somewhat better for somewhat more depending on a lot of variables.

Thank Kex

[L.J.]

Not exactly...more amplification adds more headroom and better sound and control over the speakers for any purpose, music or home theater. At lower volumes the differences will be very small, maybe not noticeable. But as you start to go louder you can hear notice improvements rather quickly.


No. IMO, double the power isn't really enough of an improvement. IF a 100 watt amp is at its limits where sound quality starts to deteriorate, a 200 watt amp isn't really that far away. It's more of a small difference. For some speakers though, 200 watts will be enough where 100 watts might not be. Usually people are advised to at least double power when upgrading amps (all other things equal), but a factor of 2 X isn't that much when it comes to power.


Pre-pros generally should have a better pre-amp stage, especially for analog sources. Just a bit finer musical quality. Amps amplify signals they receive from the pre-amps, so if the pre-amp signal is better, the output from the amp should be better. For digital sources, the differences are much smaller usually. For analog they can be significant, especially if you're connecting a turntable with phono inputs in my experience. Huge difference.

Thanks for the reply Kex. It all makes perfect sense.

[paul_pci]

Any adjustment to one's set up, including adding a 2-channel amp, repositioning, changing furniture arrangement necessitates a recalibration of the speaker level. Even fits of boredom call for recalibrating your system.

[shokhead]

Any adjustment to one's set up, including adding a 2-channel amp, repositioning, changing furniture arrangement necessitates a recalibration of the speaker level. Even fits of boredom call for recalibrating your system.

Its just not that hard to do. I think there's to much todo about auto setup. I wouldnt let that be a selling point,at least not for me.

[kexodusc]

Its just not that hard to do. I think there's to much todo about auto setup. I wouldnt let that be a selling point,at least not for me.

For the most part I agree...Except in the case of onboard Parametric Eq's included in Auto-Setup....they sometimes can make a reasonable improvement in system performance. Especially systems that don't have all identical speakers.
In my situation, there's some moderate EQ'ing to compensate for each speaker's environment, though I can't tell by listening to it. I can hear the adjustments made to perfectly blend my matching center channel to my mains though. Not a night day difference for me, but I can see where it could be useful for some.
They are fairly accurate and do save quite a bit of time...nice feature that simply shoudl be standard on all receivers at this point.