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  1. #1
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Receiver with HDMI

    Why would we need a receiver with HDMI ? Don't you run the HDMI cable, from the cable box straight to the TV, monitor or projector? Why does your receiver need to get involved with the picture? Is there some advantage to be gained?
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  2. #2
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    G,

    HDMI when it works correctly also sends multichannel audio. A receiver with multiple HDMI inputs could serve as a video switcher for a display with only a single digital video input. It could also help cut down on the amount of cable that you have to use. Any HDMI run from the receiver to the display would carry only video information, or at least need to carry only video information.

    Ed

  3. #3
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Ed,

    Is the HDMI audio any better than optical cables? Is the quality the same or better?

    Thanks
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  4. #4
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Why would we need a receiver with HDMI ? Don't you run the HDMI cable, from the cable box straight to the TV, monitor or projector? Why does your receiver need to get involved with the picture? Is there some advantage to be gained?
    My guess is to provide a central source for switching both audio and video. My NAD receiver has video connections, but I don't use them. Instead, I wire the video sources directly to the monitor and just switch both for going from DVD --> Cable or vice versa.

    rw

  5. #5
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    All future HD devices with be HDMI

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Why would we need a receiver with HDMI ? Don't you run the HDMI cable, from the cable box straight to the TV, monitor or projector? Why does your receiver need to get involved with the picture? Is there some advantage to be gained?
    HD-DVD, BlueRay, the HD output from your PS3, your HD Cable box, ect. If you want to be able to switch these them your going to need a receiver with HDMI switching.
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  6. #6
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    GM,

    HDMI has better bandwidth, but for any audio compatible with optical that it may send, the results are the same.

    Ed

  7. #7
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Ed,

    Is the HDMI audio any better than optical cables? Is the quality the same or better?

    Thanks
    HDMI cables carry all signals in the digital domain, so there's less of a chance of picking up interference in the video signal. Optical cables do the same, but they have to be converted to & from optical to electrical signal. Also optical is only for audio, while HDMI does the entire bandwith hence; Hi Def Multimedia Interface (HDMI)
    Audio;
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    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
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  8. #8
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Do you currently use multiple video sources, and route them through your receiver? It's the same reasoning with HDMI, except with digital video sources -- so that you can switch all of your digital video sources while running everything out through one video output to the TV. HDMI has become the de facto digital video connection standard, and everything from DVD, the next gen DVD formats, satellite, digital cable, and on demand services, are rapidly moving towards digital video and HDMI outputs.

    Take a look at the new HDTV models and DVD players -- nearly all of them use HDMI connections. And we already know that the upcoming Blu-ray and HD-DVD players will use HDMI exclusively for HD content (i.e. ALL analog video connections will be limited to 480p resolution, which is no different than progressive DVD).

    The other aspect of HDMI is that it can deliver video and audio signals through a single connection, and it can handle DVD-A in the digital domain. So rather than having separate video and audio cables running out from your DVD player, a single HDMI cable will carry the video signal and the DD, DTS, PCM, and DVD-A audio signals.

  9. #9
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Do you currently use multiple video sources, and route them through your receiver? It's the same reasoning with HDMI, except with digital video sources -- so that you can switch all of your digital video sources while running everything out through one video output to the TV. HDMI has become the de facto digital video connection standard, and everything from DVD, the next gen DVD formats, satellite, digital cable, and on demand services, are rapidly moving towards digital video and HDMI outputs.

    Take a look at the new HDTV models and DVD players -- nearly all of them use HDMI connections. And we already know that the upcoming Blu-ray and HD-DVD players will use HDMI exclusively for HD content (i.e. ALL analog video connections will be limited to 480p resolution, which is no different than progressive DVD).

    The other aspect of HDMI is that it can deliver video and audio signals through a single connection, and it can handle DVD-A in the digital domain. So rather than having separate video and audio cables running out from your DVD player, a single HDMI cable will carry the video signal and the DD, DTS, PCM, and DVD-A audio signals.
    I am building a new house in PA. I have been looking into projectors to replace my current TV. The builder has already agreed to run cables for me before the dry walls go in. Planning on putting an HDMI cable from the cable box to the projector. My DVD-R & receiver don't have HDMI so I'm also running component video to watch DVD's. If the receiver had HDMI I could run cables from the box and DVD to the receiver and then just run one HDMI cable from the receiver to the projector.

    GRRRRRR.... A million interuptions here. Sorry if this reads badly. Gotta run.
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  10. #10
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    I am building a new house in PA. I have been looking into projectors to replace my current TV. The builder has already agreed to run cables for me before the dry walls go in. Planning on putting an HDMI cable from the cable box to the projector. My DVD-R & receiver don't have HDMI so I'm also running component video to watch DVD's. If the receiver had HDMI I could run cables from the box and DVD to the receiver and then just run one HDMI cable from the receiver to the projector.

    GRRRRRR.... A million interuptions here. Sorry if this reads badly. Gotta run.
    When N. Abstentia was chronicling his home theater construction, he noted that he installed, and recommended to install, wiring or routing for wiring you may not be using at the moment, but may or will use in the future. Consider HDMI switching through a receiver to be a future reality that you can construct for now.

  11. #11
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_pci
    When N. Abstentia was chronicling his home theater construction, he noted that he installed, and recommended to install, wiring or routing for wiring you may not be using at the moment, but may or will use in the future. Consider HDMI switching through a receiver to be a future reality that you can construct for now.
    Yeah he did. That was the main reason I have started taking a closer look at the cables I will, or may need. If I run an HDMI and a good set of components I should be ready for whatever comes along. Well, at least for now. Who knows what will come out a few years from now. Maybe I should have the builder install a tube I can pull future cables through if needed. Hmmm....
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  12. #12
    nightflier
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    Component Video will be limited?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    And we already know that the upcoming Blu-ray and HD-DVD players will use HDMI exclusively for HD content (i.e. ALL analog video connections will be limited to 480p resolution, which is no different than progressive DVD).
    So this begs the question: if the Component Video standard is capable of 720p and 1080i resolutions when used with an HDTV cable box, why will it be limitted to 480p? Wouldn't it be conceivable that when high res movie formats become available, that Component Video ports will be useable up to 1080i (albeit not up to 1080p)?

  13. #13
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Nightflier, forgive me if I'm missing your point, but component will be stuck at 480p because analog cannot carry the intricate copy protection that is planned for the new DVD hi def formats, which will hit the market at 1080i and/or 720p. In other words, the reason why component won't be able to use its hi def capability is completely extrinsic to it--its inability to satisfactorily protect studio content.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Yeah he did. That was the main reason I have started taking a closer look at the cables I will, or may need. If I run an HDMI and a good set of components I should be ready for whatever comes along. Well, at least for now. Who knows what will come out a few years from now. Maybe I should have the builder install a tube I can pull future cables through if needed. Hmmm....
    you're absolutely right in your consideration for running a conduit. When we pre-wire new construction with a dedicated theater room, we'll run Carlon flexible raceway from projector to source location; This ensures furture upgrades for our customers. For whole-house wiring I'll use bundled cable and mini RGB practically everywhere. Just out of curiousity-
    why are you having the builder run cabling?

  15. #15
    nightflier
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    Well, I don't agree

    Quote Originally Posted by edtyct
    Nightflier, forgive me if I'm missing your point, but component will be stuck at 480p because analog cannot carry the intricate copy protection that is planned for the new DVD hi def formats, which will hit the market at 1080i and/or 720p. In other words, the reason why component won't be able to use its hi def capability is completely extrinsic to it--its inability to satisfactorily protect studio content.
    Currently, my HDTV reception box is connected to my receiver with component video cables. They transmit 720p and 1080i signals just fine. So if component video devices are already doing this w/o copy protection (although I don't have a component video recorder to test this), isn't it conceivable that future HD-DVD/BlueRay players will have 720p & 1080i output via component video? Actually, as long as there are no component video recorders, the copy protection argument is completely moot. The real impetus of this industry is with players, not recorders.

    In any case, the cat's already out of the bag. I doubt that all those manufacturers so eager to sell their new fandangled HD-DVD/BlueRay players are going to shut themselves out from the vast majority of consumers who have only component video connectors? I would actually argue that very few consumers, manufacturers, and cable providers will make use of 1080p because there will be little reason to justify the additional costs involved. We may very well find that 1080p will be a niche technology that will go the way of Betamax/SACD/DVD-A because downloaded content will overtake all other in-home technologies.

    This is a speculation on my part, of course, but it's also a very real possibility, no?

  16. #16
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVMASTER
    you're absolutely right in your consideration for running a conduit. When we pre-wire new construction with a dedicated theater room, we'll run Carlon flexible raceway from projector to source location; This ensures furture upgrades for our customers. For whole-house wiring I'll use bundled cable and mini RGB practically everywhere. Just out of curiousity-
    why are you having the builder run cabling?
    Thanks,
    Why not the builder? I am supplying the cables & plug plates, and he is putting them in at no cost. Seems like a good deal to me.
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  17. #17
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    My Cable DVR also outputs 1080i via Component outputs

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Currently, my HDTV reception box is connected to my receiver with component video cables. They transmit 720p and 1080i signals just fine. So if component video devices are already doing this w/o copy protection (although I don't have a component video recorder to test this), isn't it conceivable that future HD-DVD/BlueRay players will have 720p & 1080i output via component video? Actually, as long as there are no component video recorders, the copy protection argument is completely moot. The real impetus of this industry is with players, not recorders.

    In any case, the cat's already out of the bag. I doubt that all those manufacturers so eager to sell their new fandangled HD-DVD/BlueRay players are going to shut themselves out from the vast majority of consumers who have only component video connectors? I would actually argue that very few consumers, manufacturers, and cable providers will make use of 1080p because there will be little reason to justify the additional costs involved. We may very well find that 1080p will be a niche technology that will go the way of Betamax/SACD/DVD-A because downloaded content will overtake all other in-home technologies.

    This is a speculation on my part, of course, but it's also a very real possibility, no?
    And there IS an HD capable VCR that can record it. This is EXACTLY why you'll never see any HD components that play digital media output an HD signal through a component jack. Copyright protection via HDMI with HDCP (high definition copyright protocol) is the new industry standard, and will be the only way you will see HD via any digital media.

    My guess is that most HD players will also include a component output, but it will ABSOLUTELY be restricted to a 480p signal.
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  18. #18
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    And there IS an HD capable VCR that can record it. This is EXACTLY why you'll never see any HD components that play digital media output an HD signal through a component jack. Copyright protection via HDMI with HDCP (high definition copyright protocol) is the new industry standard, and will be the only way you will see HD via any digital media.

    My guess is that most HD players will also include a component output, but it will ABSOLUTELY be restricted to a 480p signal.
    My DVR unit has a hard drive in it. The hard drive will record in HD but it doesn't have an HDMI. Does this mean that I'm wasting my time recording in this mode?
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  19. #19
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    My DVR unit has a hard drive in it. The hard drive will record in HD but it doesn't have an HDMI. Does this mean that I'm wasting my time recording in this mode?
    My Cable box/ HD DVR records in HD. This is the ONLY way to record HD besides a Digital VCR. The movie industry wants to keep it that way. They can't stop you recording off cable onto your DVR, but they will never allow you to copy digital HD media. Unless of course someone figures out a way to get around HDCP....
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  20. #20
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    My Cable box/ HD DVR records in HD. This is the ONLY way to record HD besides a Digital VCR. The movie industry wants to keep it that way. They can't stop you recording off cable onto your DVR, but they will never allow you to copy digital HD media. Unless of course someone figures out a way to get around HDCP....
    So when I record in HD it only playing back in std D? That's a rip.
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  21. #21
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    No, you CAN playback in HD

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    So when I record in HD it only playing back in std D? That's a rip.
    Only you can't save it to removable digital media.
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  22. #22
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Only you can't save it to removable digital media.
    But It doesn't have an HDMI port. Only component. Maybe I missed something but I thought someone said that component cables won't transmit more than 480.
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  23. #23
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    No, your just misunderstanding it

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    But It doesn't have an HDMI port. Only component. Maybe I missed something but I thought someone said that component cables won't transmit more than 480.
    It's not that they cant transmit HD signal, it's that they will not be permitted to from any device that uses removable digital media. Your HD-DVR is not a removable media. I suppose you could record something, then unhook the box and give it to a buddy, but it's not the same as buring a HD-DVD and giving several copies to all of your friends.
    Audio;
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    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
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  24. #24
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    It's not that they cant transmit HD signal, it's that they will not be permitted to from any device that uses removable digital media. Your HD-DVR is not a removable media. I suppose you could record something, then unhook the box and give it to a buddy, but it's not the same as buring a HD-DVD and giving several copies to all of your friends.
    Cool, thanks. The only job it will have is to play back shows that are on at a bad time for me to view. And to play std DVD's.
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  25. #25
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Hey, Nightflier, you still out there? The viability of 1080p is a tough one to call. I don't see it as a niche format--and not just because resolutions are universals, not particulars. However, I don't see its arrival in earnest as just around the corner. The apparent launch of hi def DVD in 1080i will certainly help to keep it under wraps, since actual 1080p content will be necessary to take it out of the fantasy realm. But the number of sets with 1080p scaling capability is surely the writing on the wall, and a wobulating 1080p is on the market for PC use as we speak. When 1080p falls under the copy-protection umbrella, sets with true video 1080p input capacity will surely follow, allowing people to use advanced video processors that include it in their deinterlacing arsenal. Owners of large screens and high-end projectors will definitely be grateful. Thenceforth, it will only be a matter of time before technological trickle down begins, and 1080p content shows up. How much time? Who knows, but for now, few people are going to desert their relatively new 720p and 1080i TVs for a good long while, even if 1080p becomes standard issue in new displays over the next few years. If Blu-ray wins the format war, or some sort of compromise featuring it saves hi def DVD, it remains to be seen whether the second wave of hi def DVD will go to 1080p (unlike Blu-ray, HD DVD has no such plan).

    Ed

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