pulled the trigger on an AVR-3808CI

[L.J.]

i did notice one oddity that maybe LJ can help. i'm using my PS3 as a bluray player, and with the new firmware that dropped yesterday it doesn't let you only pick PCM, but now gives you a whole list of values. i looked through it but just picked auto, assuming the ps3 and receiver would figure it out together.

now when i played a bluray (i am legend) which has Dolby TrueHD, the receiver said just "multi ch input".

is that how it's supposed to work cause the PS3 can only output PCM and not actual TrueHD? or did i do something wrong?

Hmmm....I wonder if they finally addressed that TrueHD issue. Yeah, you should be seeing multi ch. I'll have to look at the settings to see if anything has changed. Here's something I commented on a few weeks ago that may help.

The auto sensing sets your resolution output to match your display but you have to go into the audio settings to set your PS3 to either bitstream or PCM. I leave my PS3 set to bitstream(you can leave it on PCM though) except when watching a BR with TrueHD and I'll explain why. The PS3 cannot bitstream any HD audio signals but it can bitstream standard DD & DTS signals like any DVD player can. My AVR does the decoding and I see either a "DD" or "DTS" displayed on my AVR. When watching a BR with a MC PCM track, the PS3 will automatically switch to PCM and play the uncompressed track and switch back to bitstream when your done. When watching a BR with PCM your AVR will display "MC PCM" or something similar to that.

Now when watching a BR with TrueHD, you have to go in and set audio output on the PS3 from bitstream to PCM. You can do this while the movie is playing though. Just hit triangle, go to audio settings and switch bitstream to PCM. Your AVR will display "MC PCM". Hitting display on your PS3 remote will show that the PS3 is decoding the TrueHD. This only has to be done with TrueHD. Why it doesn't switch over automatically like it does with PCM or SACD is beyond me. What was Sony thinking with that one. Word is this will be fixed with a firmware update eventually and the PS3 will switch over to PCM automatically for HD audio tracks.

There is no way to listen to DTSMA with the PS3 but that's gonna change soon. At the moment, when viewing a BR with DTSMA your only getting the "core" DTS 1.5 mbps track. Your AVR display should read "DTS".

Now that I've confused you even more, you can simply leave your PS3 set to PCM and it will decode everything and you will always see "MC PCM" displayed on your AVR.

[captjamo]

Is it some universal plot to make us all not want to buy new AV receivers. My new receiver sounds unbelievable ( favorite part-no additional tweaking after I ran the auto calibration) other than adjusting sub from music to movies). But the remote; nasty. Took me 6 hrs of learning curve.

[f0rge]

How do expensive cables that claim to have a heavy special core material to handle bass and some other genuine or special alloy metal for the outer strands for treble work? It seems to me that you still get down to a stamped/formed/plated piece of metal at the connection.

Not knowing the answer to this question, I just used 12 guage monster copper cables, stripped back and doubled over to make a good hefty contact/termination with my speaker and AV receiver posts. It sounds like the signal is thoroughly complete. Explain (anyone) how I will audibly notice a positive difference from what I am doing and, hey, I'd be interested in doing it. Kind of like, what good is shielded cable, if interference signals have unfettered entry into your system at the unshielded terminals, i.e. stripped wire, bananas, spades, etc.

As long as the cable has mass to prevent electron loss and the connection is solid and not weak: what more, hmmm?

these cables dont claim to be anything special other than braided, just standard cable in the jackets

they weren't that expensive either

[captjamo]

I was trying to be sympathetic with your having to cut off those nice terminals. And your having to do that reminded me of a question I have been wanting to ask the forum, but, I think maybe I should have posed the question in a different thread. I hope I didn't ruin the flow.

[RoadRunner6]

This old fart gets his speaker wire at Home Depot (high-end audio beautique).

I'll let Roger Russell explain why (this is a long but enlightening article when you have the time and it might just save you enough money to buy that new 1440p plasma coming out next year).

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

RR6

[f0rge]

no worries lol

if i came across as offended/defensive dont worry cause i wasn't

[captjamo]

OK good fOrge. Will read the cable article very soon RR6. Thanks.

[BadAssJazz]

nah through the ethernet jack, i just hooked it up to my router, fired up my laptop, typed in the receiver's IP into the address bar and voila! full control over the whole unit, including operation and setup (minus on/off functionality). it's really easy and faster than the GUI. plus you can save your setups onto your PC when you get everything done in case you lose your settings.

the denon-link is for other denon products, allows them to "talk" to each other i think.

Now that is awesome. Congratz on the receiver!

[f0rge]

i think i finally got that other remote figured out, but all i have to say is thank god for harmony

i think i finally have everything calibrated as best i can, but i'm having a hell of a time with room acoustics (i just moved here) so i'm struggling with wood floors and hard walls and an odd shaped room.

oh well i'll figure it out one of these days lol

[Rich-n-Texas]

Go here:

www.atsacoustics.com for all your room treatment needs.

[f0rge]

stragely enough pointing the speakers straight, as opposed to angling them towards the listening position reduced the harshness of the highs quite a bit, go figure.

powered towers are such a pain, of course i had to get bipolar ones while i was at it...sigh...

and man those things are ugly Rich...my gf puts up with my giant speakers and TV, those things might be pushing it lol

LJ, if my PS3 is in PCM mode it wont output DD or DTS when i'm playing a regular DVD? switching back to bitstream put it in DD. this is annoying, why cant it just output straight dolby trueHD? are regular bluray players like this?

[Rich-n-Texas]

...and man those things are ugly Rich...my gf puts up with my giant speakers and TV, those things might be pushing it lol

Dig deep enough around here f0rge and you'll find that time after time people stress the importance of room treatments. The Owens Corning panels with burlap covering are easily the most cost effective method for reducing and/or eliminating many of the problems people with rooms like yours face. I guess it's just a matter of priorities for you.

[GMichael]

stragely enough pointing the speakers straight, as opposed to angling them towards the listening position reduced the harshness of the highs quite a bit, go figure.

powered towers are such a pain, of course i had to get bipolar ones while i was at it...sigh...

and man those things are ugly Rich...my gf puts up with my giant speakers and TV, those things might be pushing it lol

LJ, if my PS3 is in PCM mode it wont output DD or DTS when i'm playing a regular DVD? switching back to bitstream put it in DD. this is annoying, why cant it just output straight dolby trueHD? are regular bluray players like this?

You don't have to build traditional room acoustic panels. I found that you can by some artwork that comes in hollow frames. Some as thick as 2 inches. Get these and put the Owens insulation inside them and you have good panels with fantastic WAF.

[L.J.]

and man those things are ugly Rich...my gf puts up with my giant speakers and TV, those things might be pushing it lol

My wife doesn't mind....and I have 14 panels

LJ, if my PS3 is in PCM mode it wont output DD or DTS when i'm playing a regular DVD? switching back to bitstream put it in DD. this is annoying, why cant it just output straight dolby trueHD? are regular bluray players like this?

Well if you leave it on PCM, then the PS3 will decode everything. DD & DTS will display on the PS3 but your just gonna see "MC IN" or something on your AVR. I leave mine on bitstream and just switch over to PCM when viewing a movie with a TrueHD track. Yes, it's very annoying but at least you can switch it over while the movie is playing. This may be fixed via firmware upgrade eventually. I'm not sure about other players but my A2 will switch automatically when viewing a movie with a TrueHD track. If this continues to happen when DTSMA is added, then I'm just gonna leave my PS3 on PCM.

Due to hardware limitations the PS3 cannot bitstream.

[f0rge]

here's a (somewhat) funny article that describes exactly how i feel:

Anyway, I digress. Long story short PS3 does have TrueHD and other HD audio format abilities, its just that it cannot output them in a raw format (bitstream). So what you have to do is go into the Bluray settings in the PS3 settings menu, and select PCM. PCM is a base digital format which is lossless and all the other good stuff you simply must have these days if you are ever to have sex again (or for you audiophiles out there, for the first time). The PS3 internally transcodes the TrueHD etc to PCM. Once this setting is enabled, the OSD on the TV says TrueHD!! Yaay.

But dammit, no little light on my amp! All I get is PCM, seriously I feel like its in Windows 95 WAV format… I quickly shrivled. Hey its cold out.

As it turns out you cannot make the PS3 output the HD audio signal for decoding in your precious new amp. It must do it internally. Ah, crap… they (white coats) assure me that the PCM conversion is also lossless - big whoop. I want my bloody light. I’m over it. This sucks, and I’m severely disappointed - it would have been easier so enable the light using a soldering iron. I’m gonna watch some Spidey using crap PCM.

I sit down with a coke and some popcorn in my disgustingly small living room with my equally disgustingly overpowered home theatre system. Man I’m pissed, maybe a little too much so. As the thoughts of my little TrueHD light’s impotence slowly leave my tired mind, the sand man starts doing some really cool stuff and i soon realise -

OMG - WOW it sounds good…

F@&^ the light.

basically couldn't any receiver that accepts PCM via HDMI get Dolby TrueHD then? somehow this upsets me, and i dont know why. i may have to check out the standalone players in the fall. glad i opted for the 4 HDMI inputs in the end

[L.J.]

here's a (somewhat) funny article that describes exactly how i feel:



basically couldn't any receiver that accepts PCM via HDMI get Dolby TrueHD then? somehow this upsets me, and i dont know why. i may have to check out the standalone players in the fall. glad i opted for the 4 HDMI inputs in the end

Basically yes, as long as the player can decode it. I'm enjoying HD audio just fine on my 2700. Picked it up on clearance when the 3800 came out and saved about $700 or something like that (although the deal Rich got put my deal to almost nothing). Alot of people don't understand that you don't need HDMI 1.3 to enjoy these new audio formats. Alot of people dumped off their perfectly good gear for fancy new units with a TrueHD & DTSMA logo on it. Should've heard them crying when they realized that little TrueHD wouldn't display on their unit.

I wouldn't waste money on a player just because it can bitstream. In the end, it's all lossless audio that has to be converted to PCM. Will we really hear a difference if it's done in the AVR vs being done in the player. And remember, the extra content has to be mixed in the player and cannot be bitstreamed. The player would have to the decoding if you wanted to view that mat'l anyways.

[pixelthis]

How do expensive cables that claim to have a heavy special core material to handle bass and some other genuine or special alloy metal for the outer strands for treble work? It seems to me that you still get down to a stamped/formed/plated piece of metal at the connection.

Not knowing the answer to this question, I just used 12 guage monster copper cables, stripped back and doubled over to make a good hefty contact/termination with my speaker and AV receiver posts. It sounds like the signal is thoroughly complete. Explain (anyone) how I will audibly notice a positive difference from what I am doing and, hey, I'd be interested in doing it. Kind of like, what good is shielded cable, if interference signals have unfettered entry into your system at the unshielded terminals, i.e. stripped wire, bananas, spades, etc.

As long as the cable has mass to prevent electron loss and the connection is solid and not weak: what more, hmmm?

Sheilding is mainly to prevent interferrence from induction when in contact with other wires,
although they are also there to provide some sheilding from RF.
The area at the connector is quite small.
I use monster also, cut off the lugs so I could put bananas on, and they sound great.
Super expensive cables are marketing voodoo, basically, like a lot of crap that is marketed to the audio world, what I call "white van" stuff.
And its a free market, if you want to waste your money on such fine, but that is just more that you cant spend on better gear.
I have probably spent a grand on cables, not that much really, and they are quality,
and the sound is great, which is really all that matters.
People might talk themselves into thinking that a certain cable sounds "different" than
another, but they have never convinced me.
IMHO the entire area of high priced cables falls under the PT BARNUM area,
you know, the old saying of his about one born every minute

[f0rge]

more time with the unit, more observations and oddities.

first of all i gotta say i'm loving the thing, sounds great, bluray is simply amazing both sonically and visually

but there's a couple of quirks...

things that used to be in DD on my old receiver are only in PL2 on this receiver. wierd things like my xbox, which outputs DD 5.1 for everything, all the time, no matter what, even when playing mp3s. so i cant understand why i cant select DD from the sound options. possibly something to do with switching from optical to HDMI? i'm just not quite sure, the xbox itself is set to DD 5.1. getting the same problem with my cable box, the HD broadcasts wont go into DD, and i'm using optical for that.

using a dvi-hdmi converter on with my PVR and i'm getting noise in the line, most notable on black screens. at first i thought it was the scaler chip (converting 1080i to 1080p) but i turned that off it does it either way. i'm thinking my PVR may be on the fritz, it's doing other odd things right now. next step will be to connect the PVR directly to the tv and see if i still have the noise.

[jrhymeammo]

www.engrish.com)

Enjoy!
RR6

That is one of my favorite websites. I'm sure your AVR is cool, but not as cool as you tell your wife that, your Unko was bigger than your Chinko again, when you come out of bathroom. She'll love it.

Kind Regards,
JRA

[pixelthis]

more time with the unit, more observations and oddities.

first of all i gotta say i'm loving the thing, sounds great, bluray is simply amazing both sonically and visually

but there's a couple of quirks...

things that used to be in DD on my old receiver are only in PL2 on this receiver. wierd things like my xbox, which outputs DD 5.1 for everything, all the time, no matter what, even when playing mp3s. so i cant understand why i cant select DD from the sound options. possibly something to do with switching from optical to HDMI? i'm just not quite sure, the xbox itself is set to DD 5.1. getting the same problem with my cable box, the HD broadcasts wont go into DD, and i'm using optical for that.

using a dvi-hdmi converter on with my PVR and i'm getting noise in the line, most notable on black screens. at first i thought it was the scaler chip (converting 1080i to 1080p) but i turned that off it does it either way. i'm thinking my PVR may be on the fritz, it's doing other odd things right now. next step will be to connect the PVR directly to the tv and see if i still have the noise.

Sounds like you old receiver was messed up and your new one is fine.
You shouldnt be geting a DD signal when playing an MP3, DONT KNOW WHAT thats
ABOUT.
And some HD isnt in DD 5.1, just DD 2 channel(or supposed to be).
I can use pro II on some HD channels.
You say you're getting "noise", is that video or audio "noise"?

[f0rge]

it's video noise, but i'm starting to think my PVR is screwed, it just randomly stops working, makes it really hard to watch what little TV i even do. i'm going to have to call them and get it replaced.

and no pix, my old receiver wasnt screwed up, xbox 360s output a DD signal all the time, no matter what you're doing, unless of course you're playing a DTS track in a movie (or you set the xbox to stereo).

and i think it was just the game (Devil May Cry 4), i popped in rock band and got DD. which is weird cause the box for DMC specifically says in-game DD

[pixelthis]

it's video noise, but i'm starting to think my PVR is screwed, it just randomly stops working, makes it really hard to watch what little TV i even do. i'm going to have to call them and get it replaced.

and no pix, my old receiver wasnt screwed up, xbox 360s output a DD signal all the time, no matter what you're doing, unless of course you're playing a DTS track in a movie (or you set the xbox to stereo).

and i think it was just the game (Devil May Cry 4), i popped in rock band and got DD. which is weird cause the box for DMC specifically says in-game DD

Well, it must be using some kind of proprietary program like pro II, to convert it before its sent, only way you can get DD (or something resembling it) out of a 2 channel source

[f0rge]

halo 3 coming out in stereo...what's going on?

i think i need to hit up an xbox forum

[aeh10]

i did notice one oddity that maybe LJ can help. i'm using my PS3 as a bluray player, and with the new firmware that dropped yesterday it doesn't let you only pick PCM, but now gives you a whole list of values. i looked through it but just picked auto, assuming the ps3 and receiver would figure it out together.

now when i played a bluray (i am legend) which has Dolby TrueHD, the receiver said just "multi ch input".

is that how it's supposed to work cause the PS3 can only output PCM and not actual TrueHD? or did i do something wrong?

Sorry to bust in on the thread but I just wanted to know if you ever got this resolved as I have had a similar problem with my 2807 and wanted to upgrade to the 3808CI to gain HD sound formats. Thanks in advance and I would love to know how it sounds. I am currently comparing RX-V3800, 3808CI, and VSX-94TXH receivers. 2807 just doesn't have enough power and no upscaling capabilities.

[f0rge]

Sorry to bust in on the thread but I just wanted to know if you ever got this resolved as I have had a similar problem with my 2807 and wanted to upgrade to the 3808CI to gain HD sound formats. Thanks in advance and I would love to know how it sounds. I am currently comparing RX-V3800, 3808CI, and VSX-94TXH receivers. 2807 just doesn't have enough power and no upscaling capabilities.

well in the end this wasnt a problem with the receiver, but rather with the PS3. it also wasnt really a problem either.

most bluray players should be able to output bitstream trueHD and DTSMA, but the playstation can only output trueHD in PCM, which the receiver sees as a multi channel input, even though it's all going through the HDMI cable.

so i still get trueHD, but i the receiver doesn't acknowledge it as trueHD since the playstation is doing the processing.

it you had a bluray player that did bitstream, the receiver would recognize it as trueHD or DTSMA

i think that's right, LJ will correct me if i'm wrong i'm sure.

and so far i think it sounds great, if you go this route i'm sure you'll love it.