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  1. #1
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    pioneer vsx1014txk vs yamaha rxv650, which do I buy?

    I was looking to buy one of these and I can't decide. Which one is better and why is it better? Are there any other better ones in this price range? thank you.
    Last edited by mr. budget; 03-19-2005 at 08:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    I don't know much about the Pioneer, but I have the Yamaha 5760 (equivalent to the 650) and love it! It has all the power I need and more than enought input/outputs. It both units have everything you need, I would go with the more inexpensive one. Also, remember the 650/5760 go pretty cheap now- MSRP is $499, but I've seen it as cheap as $289 at an authorized dealer- you can always get it online for a good price, but you have to be careful for obvious reasons. One more thing, the YPAO with the Yamaha is also a great option. I'm sure some experienced person with an SPL meter can set-up a HT pretty quickly, but I'm not into that part. It literally takes 4-5 minutes to set-up your speakers (and most of that time is plugging in the microphone and setting it atop a flat surface). I don't know if the Pioneer has that option.

    Good luck and enjoy!
    Eric

  3. #3
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    I was thinking that yamaha is the smarter buy mostly for it's clean power and technical soundness. I can't find one here for less than $650 cdn (the rxv 650 model), maybe the dealer can chop that price down a bit.

  4. #4
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    Try and have them chop the price down a bit- you can also look online, however, I know how that can be taking a bit of a chance depending on the online retailer you go through. A lot of people on this board have purchased online and have no problem with it at all. Maybe some people can give you advice of what sites they used.

  5. #5
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    Mr. Budget...you'd be further ahead to order an HTR-5760 from JandR.com or somewhere in the US at about $350 US (or less), and import it...even with customs fees you'd be up at least $100. The only downside is, if for whatever reason you needed warranty work in the first 2 years, you'd have to ship it to the USA instead of to Canada...this would probably cost you an additional $20 - $40 canadian if that happens.
    You could always look at ebay...warranty might be trickier going that route.

  6. #6
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    I saw the 650 for $500 cdn at future shop but it was too late I missed the yam by a day. I guess it's good knoledge as to how low they can go pricewise. Anyways, seeing as how there'e enough power there I'm definately going to get it for a good price, just a bit of time now and I'll end this quest for the yam. later, thanks for replies, it tells me this yam is a good unit and more than adept to do what I need it to.
    Last edited by mr. budget; 03-21-2005 at 12:19 PM.

  7. #7
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    Mr. Budget....arrghhh...I hate doing this, and I wasn't going to, but I got guilted into it...if you're so interested, I can mediate a deal between you and my brother on a perfect shape, 1 year old HTR-5760, we live in NB, Canada now so your shipping would be cheap, less than what you saw at Future Shop, and no taxes to boot. He wants my RX-V1400. PM me if you're interested....

    Sorry for the shill...I told him I would

    (I'm going to crawl under my rock now)

    (he owes me a beer for this).



    ...(I feel so dirty)

  8. #8
    AR "Wisdom of Yoda"Member LEAFS264's Avatar
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    My man, listen and listen good. When ever you see somthing on sale at future shop. That price is always going to made available to you. You just have to push for the sale price. Just because their ADVERTISED price ends on such and such a day doesn't mean that they won't give it to you later down the road for the same price.....trust me. Tell him the guy at 2001 audio video is going to sell it to you for 499.00 and he'll be happy to sell it to you for that price. These guys at Future Shop are all on Commission and would love to sell it as high as possible. But they still would rather sell it at a discounted rate than to see you walk down the road to someone else.


    Jay

  9. #9
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    Kex, thanks a lot for the offer but I'm just going to run out and get one of em on full warranty and **** just so if I blow that **** up I could take it back easier, hey if you were my neibour and the unit worked I'd say sure. Thanks though maybe some future reference is good. I'm under that same rock, I fing hate it, so I drink beer and entertain the town, or at least lately that's my trend to stay bent as much as I can, actually my mom was born in nb st.andrews. I like your style Kex, and thanks for replies it helps. I order everybody to have a beer(S) and crank music or good movies!!! Mr. Leafs thanks for your recommendation it's always better to have money for beer and honeys than to give it to the store owner for his stock market bs. later.
    Last edited by mr. budget; 03-22-2005 at 03:12 AM.

  10. #10
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    St. Andrews...I've been there...nice town...too many f'n tourists though.

    I wouldn't trust my brother either, so good for you...(I know he's reading this)...
    Just curious, if you're lookin for something you can crank the bejeezus out of why by a new unit? I'd be getting an older Yamaha or Harman Kardon or something, 2 or 3 years old, still has everything you need, less than $250...so no big loss if you do destroy it. Denon or Onkyo too...they're pretty tough, though for loud music, lots of power, and reliablility, Yamaha and H/K would be my first 2 choices.
    If you look on ebay, there's been a Canadian company selling them brand for around $400 plus shipping (doubtful if there's warranty though)...what speakers are you driving with this thing? If you don't have 5 speakers, or don't care about home theater, you can buy a much better piece of gear for good ol' 2-channel stereo...

  11. #11
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    Kex, I don't know why they edited my last message and I just tried to fix it. I have 4 cerwin vega 12in' 3 ways, the vega v5c ctr and 2 wharfdale 8in' 2ways. I used to use them loud, I keep it down now, or reasonable. Anyways,I just made a deal over the phone and went and got the yam htr 5760 for a good price. But the ht is excellent, I'm going from an old sony strd 590 without even a ctr channel to the yamaha with stuff like dts, pl2 etc, so the difference is much. I know you guys have some stuff that coul acitize this thing but for the money this thing is adept like I don't have so much money and even worse no car and no brain, I'm lost, but I do have a mid fi rcvr! Kex I've kind of wanted a 2 channel that could really kick but I'm not even allowed to play it loud anymore so for now this thing will do, and I didn't realize the movies could be so much better with 5 or 9 or 40 speakers and a lot of cinema modes and adjusting capabilities. thanks.
    Last edited by mr. budget; 03-23-2005 at 01:17 AM.

  12. #12
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    No shame in your purchase, the HTR-5760/RX-V650 was my nominee for "best-value" receiver...It does a helluva job.
    Just be careful with the volume, especially as you run a more than 2 speakers.
    If you want to beef up your system a bit, the great thing about the Yamaha is it has pre-outs so you can connect external power amps if you want...Adcom, NAD, Rotel, etc...helps having a bit more power, takes some of the strain of the receiver, and makes everything sound a bit better. Tons of good used stuff on ebay and audiogon.
    Enjoy your receiver.

  13. #13
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    A couple days I've had this and when I first got it it seemed like I was going to have to learn to fly a fighter jet, but it just seemed that way, now it's almost simple to use, just like math I don't understand seemed so headachish at first but after learned I wonder why it seemed so complex. Just an hour or so on the manual and it cleared up the confusion of looking on the control panel wondering what those things were and how to get them off the screen and pressing buttons not understanding what they were doing or why they weren't doing anything, or trying to set things up you need to have the on screen display on without using the on screen display, etc. Now a few cables, a couple spkr stands, some movies, and I'm okay.

  14. #14
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    I'm worried now that I've made a mistake...that the pioneer is superior it weighs more and has 20 20000 rating of 110x7 0.09thd and has all this jazz about a powerhouse amp that can take on any speakers and drive them to max or whatever...this amp (the yammie) is 95x7 0.06thd weighs 27.4 etc. It's older bro the 750 is rated at 100x7, and maybe, actually I've read that size isn't always an important factor? Should I do a return and switch em up? Maybe I'll ask you guys straight...Which one would you get/which one do you think or know is better and for what reason? (vsxd1014txk or rxv650)

  15. #15
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    Don't worry about the power ratings, weight etc...The pioneer has a bit bigger power supply, but it's also a less efficient unit...the extra wattage won't make much real world difference, it's not enough extra to be substantial. Truth is, receivers in this price range are all limited in their power outputs, but for most people it's enough...
    If you had that Pioneer receiver, I'd be telling you the exact same thing about getting an external power amp for cheap or going easy on the volume knob.

    As a complete A/V package, the two receivers are quite comparable...If it makes you feel any better, nobody touches Yamaha in the quality department for receivers under $1500...Pioneer (not their Elite line) has had too much of a hit and miss record in recent years, not sure driving it hard would be adviseable.

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    Kexodusc, thanks for your invaluable help, I think that's why I went with the yam because I followed a post of best reciever and so many people voted for yamaha, they said pioneer had dropped in their parts quality and cust service dept over the years and I'm not sure those power ratings have as significant meaning as some would place on them (I think they get more accurate when it comes to 2chnl amps)...and I got this one for a clear at least a 100 dollars less than I'd have to pay for the pioneer, plus a future shop warranty, that means anything wrong and it's over to future shop, there's a couple in the area, so repair is easy....Also I couldn't find the pioneer at 2001 audvid or fut shp, 2 of the most biggest brds here in toronto...(I live in toronto) If I wanted the pioneer I'd have to go to one of 2 small chain shops and pay an arm and a leg for it...probably at least 150 more...Anyways, I don't knock the other recievers and I'm glad for the pioneer owners out there...seems like thats a good one too...thanks a lot for the help kexodusc...I don't know so much..over time I'll gusee I'll get to know the recievers better...I'm better at speakers....I've had big jvc and kenwoods before( speakers) but actually I've never had a reciever...Just the front page of this site saying the yam2400 is one of the best product is erasing any doubts. Anyways no worrys and thanks again...this is kind of a quick reply as I've got a couple things on tap and am on the run. Kexodusc what is this bright and warm or whatever...I have read a few dozen posts about this I just forgot, and I can't find them again...I know this is like asking what's 1+1 but...What is bright and what is warm? I'm sorry, I forget.
    Last edited by mr. budget; 03-26-2005 at 06:38 PM.

  17. #17
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    If you have time, and patience, you can learn a lot about how to listen to your audio gear the way it was meant to be heard from this website. I suggest you start a new thread on this to learn more if you're really interested...you'll get a ton of great links and opinions and it's a good question to ask (and it's been asked before, but not recently)...you could try a search here too...
    Briefly (very briefly), bright and warm are weird adjectives the audio-world uses to describe the "tonal" characteristics of gear. Excess high frequencies, especially sibilance (hisssssssing) are lumped under bright, and warm is more of bass and midrange heavy sound, especially midrange...
    These are all relative. Neutral would be a flat, perfect reproduction of the source with no change to tone.
    I like to hear crystal clear high end detail, which many consider bright. What some consider warm, I consider laid back, and veiled...muffled even...loss of detail...everyone's ears are different, so it's all relative.

    Your Yamaha is pretty darn close to neutral, maybe a micron on the bright side...older Yammies were notoriously bright...don't let anyone tell you they still are...

    Bright/warm are neither good, nor bad...just different.

    There's a ton of other words out there too...Too much brightness can be called harsh, too much warmth (or softness) can be called bloated, muffled, etc...and the list goes on. Good luck...

    If you haven't already I suggest you learn what "imaging" and "soundstage" mean...look for proper speaker placement techniques, and learn about room acoustics...this knowledge is the cheapest tool to getting the most out of your gear...later.

  18. #18
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    Mr Budget, try to get Yamaha 650 or 750 at very cheap price at Layton Audio on St-Catherine street.

  19. #19
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    Hey, yeah, Mr. Budget, you should really get the Yamaha RX-V650, I hear it's a really good receiver.

  20. #20
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    While I can give you scientific documetation on the power difference

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Don't worry about the power ratings, weight etc...The pioneer has a bit bigger power supply, but it's also a less efficient unit...the extra wattage won't make much real world difference, it's not enough extra to be substantial. Truth is, receivers in this price range are all limited in their power outputs, but for most people it's enough...
    If you had that Pioneer receiver, I'd be telling you the exact same thing about getting an external power amp for cheap or going easy on the volume knob.

    As a complete A/V package, the two receivers are quite comparable...If it makes you feel any better, nobody touches Yamaha in the quality department for receivers under $1500...Pioneer (not their Elite line) has had too much of a hit and miss record in recent years, not sure driving it hard would be adviseable.
    I'm not sure I've enver seen documnetation on how the Pioneer is "less efficient" or has any more quality issues than the Yamaha. Please present these fact for us.
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  21. #21
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    Honestly, if you need more wattage than your yamaha is pumping out, then I don't know what to tell you, On my HTR 5760, once i hit the -10db range on volume it's starting to get a bit loud, almost harsh loud, and at -5db, I can hear the music outside of my house. If you need more wattage then that I have to ask if you installed this thing in a concert hall or something? And I totally get what you said about installing it and thinking you were going to be learning how to fly a jet. When I first got my 5760 I was overwhelmed and intimidated, but a few min with the manual and some playing witht he reciever over the next week or so, and now it's just so intuitive, and easy to use.
    I have nothing against pioneer, but I'm glad you took kexo's advice, he's good people and knows what he's talking about. I love my yamaha and I think you'll love yours too.
    My system:
    ----------------
    Receiver : Yamaha HTR-5760
    Fronts : Sony SS-MF750H
    Center + Surrounds : SS-CR350H
    Rear : SS-MB150H
    Sub: RCA 12" (not sure on model number)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    I'm not sure I've enver seen documnetation on how the Pioneer is "less efficient" or has any more quality issues than the Yamaha. Please present these fact for us.
    The relative efficiency of the two power supplies is easy, look at the specs, crunch a couple of numbers...badda bing...Yes the Pioneer outputs more power, my comment was more directed towards the relative weight differences...there's not necessarily a 100% relationship between weight and power...some PSU's are more efficient than others...
    I have a feeling you already know this though, and this is what puzzles me...why?

    As for the qualtiy issues...I'll admit it's mostly anecdotal, based on the experiences of a few members here at AR.com over the last year (some who I've communicated with in public threads, some through PM's), conversations with a few service techs who work on these things, and solicited opinions from sales people who sell both....not that Pioneer is bad...I'm not knocking them.

    I suppose someone else could claim that Yamaha's quality history in recent years is more hit-and-miss and support it with anecdotal evidence, too...is this your point?

    Curious..is it a policy now to validate absolutely everything that's said with scientific evidence, or just opinions you don't share?

  23. #23
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Talking Weight to current ratio; It's what I use!

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    The relative efficiency of the two power supplies is easy, look at the specs, crunch a couple of numbers...badda bing...Yes the Pioneer outputs more power, my comment was more directed towards the relative weight differences...there's not necessarily a 100% relationship between weight and power...some PSU's are more efficient than others...
    I have a feeling you already know this though, and this is what puzzles me...why?

    As for the qualtiy issues...I'll admit it's mostly anecdotal, based on the experiences of a few members here at AR.com over the last year (some who I've communicated with in public threads, some through PM's), conversations with a few service techs who work on these things, and solicited opinions from sales people who sell both....not that Pioneer is bad...I'm not knocking them.

    I suppose someone else could claim that Yamaha's quality history in recent years is more hit-and-miss and support it with anecdotal evidence, too...is this your point?

    Curious..is it a policy now to validate absolutely everything that's said with scientific evidence, or just opinions you don't share?

    I buy my receivers based on weight, works every time!

    Seriously, leaving out Carver and his whacky amps, and the newer digital jobs, there's a pretty good correlation between weight of the amp, and how much actual current it can deliver. The only really inefficient ones are the pure class A ones, and I don't think your going to find a class A amp in a receiver (perhaps in an A/N receiver)?

    I'm sorry if I took you to take for spouting anecdotes. If did that to RGA I would be typing 24/7. The fact of the matter is that if you would have gotten off you ass and done some research on AR ( the consumer based reviews), you would have found out that you are indeed correct! (I really hate you now)

    There's 5 consumer reviews for the Pioneer, all of them great except one guy who had to reset his unit when the video went out. Pissed him off so much he brought it back and bought a HK that was twice the price. (he had switched from HK to Pioneer in the first place) He gave the Pioneer unit a 1, which dragged the 4 reviews of 5 stars down to and adjusted 4.33 average. The Yammie has but 2 reviews, but both are spotless so it's a 5. I can assume that at least so far, nobody has gotten a bad one yet....?

    Yes Kexo, from now on ALL statements will be vetted by peer review. You will be required to post an abstract on all your statements before posting, and failure to do so means expulsion from the order of water-buffalo.

    Can we get back to dissing BOSE now?!
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  24. #24
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    Well weight's often a safe bet to go by, now argument there, but even if you look at some most of the weights of receivers over, say, the last 7 years, you'll find they are getting lighter, yet are actually delivering more power...more energy is being conserved (or is it preserved - not wasted) for what it's meant...Pioneer is no exception to this...they've come a long way and now have really beefy amps right up there with H/K in my opinion.
    The problem with a lot of receivers isn't the psu from what I understand, but the switching circuitry that channels the current to 5,6, or 7 channels...but that's techie stuff..

    I don't have anything against Pioneer, the first speakers I had in high school were an old Pioneer Cerwin Vega styled floorstanders with huge woofers and tone controls...came with an old Pioneer receiver I actually bought in Germany (so all the font was German). This did me until my first year of college when I traded for a Technics receiver with Pro-Logic...man, that was a bad mistake.

    I tend to rely less on the reviews here, most people are quite satisfied with their gear unless it fails, but half of the failures are the fault of the user, not the gear...I like talking with people who can at least convince me they know what they're talking about. There's a few regulars here who appear to be service guys, Woodman comes to mind, there's a few others too....Woodman was one who persuaded me to look at Yamaha and move away from Denon, H/K, Pioneer, Onkyo, Marantz, etc based on his experience....Of course if he owns Yamaha stock or something and doesn't fix his own coffee, let alone electronics, then I guess I have egg on my face...but he seems to know his stuff for the most part...certainly more than me.

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    I did get the rxv 650, actually it's the htr5760...same thing. I kind of thought that bright was similar to clear because I noticed how clear it is. As for questionong, some guy on the audioholics forum gave me a post about his pioneervsxd1014txk which made me wonder. Geoffcin...It was a poll about favorite recievers here, I think it's archived now...I'll work on getting it...I've actually read and learned a lot...There's just so many people praising yamaha...I knew I couldn't go wrong...It's kind of like I had a doubt when I got those mails on the other site...like if I think a ferret is the right pet for me and read reviews of a lot of people saying the ferret is awesome...so I get the ferret and then a couple guys (pioneer dealers?!?) tell me to get rid of the ferett or return it for the pioneer. Actually I'm really happy with the yamaha, it's growing on me and I'm really happy about this site...before I only used it for help but now it's way better like a hobby.
    Last edited by mr. budget; 03-28-2005 at 11:11 PM.

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