HD Sat. woes

[GaToy]

Why is it every time they come out with a new technology they always want to rape the consumers? I am very dissapointed with the information I have reaserched about getting High Definition on satilite. Why is it that they are giving the regular sat. boxes away, but yet expect you to buy the HD box for $500-$700? There are only 7 channels that are in HD. That's a $100 a channel. Are they nuts? That's a 600% increase! I hate that I have an HD t.v. but my only option is to pay out the nose for it. We don't have high deffinition cable and it worries me to put up an antenna to get local channels. The last thing I need is for lightining to take out my home theater setup. I know I would never get from the insurance company what I have invested. So I guess for now I just will be without high deffinition.

~C.C.~

P.S. I don't know if I put this in the right place. I couldn't figure out where to put a comment about Video. If this is the wrong place, sorry. This is my first post here.

[woodman]

Why is it every time they come out with a new technology they always want to rape the consumers? I am very dissapointed with the information I have reaserched about getting High Definition on satilite. Why is it that they are giving the regular sat. boxes away, but yet expect you to buy the HD box for $500-$700? There are only 7 channels that are in HD. That's a $100 a channel. Are they nuts? That's a 600% increase! I hate that I have an HD t.v. but my only option is to pay out the nose for it. We don't have high deffinition cable and it worries me to put up an antenna to get local channels. The last thing I need is for lightining to take out my home theater setup. I know I would never get from the insurance company what I have invested. So I guess for now I just will be without high deffinition.

~C.C.~

P.S. I don't know if I put this in the right place. I couldn't figure out where to put a comment about Video. If this is the wrong place, sorry. This is my first post here.

You haven't done enough "homework" fella. You can get a Hi-Def" receiver for free from Dish Network (unless you're already a Dish Network customer) with a commitment to purchase programming for 12 months. And regarding putting up an outside antenna to receive local HiDef channels - you're being overly paranoid about the matter. If you can get HiDef signals from your local stations, by all means - do it! Get a Panamax surge suppressor with 2 signal source connections - one for satellite, and one for your own antenna. This will give you insurance against any electrical disaster including protection against a lightning strike! I'll get you some model numbers and prices if you'd like.

[GaToy]

I'm currently with direct T.V.. I called them up and asked what it would take to upgrade to the HD reciever. She said it would cost $499 and that is because it is on sale right now. She said it was regular $699. And the reason i'm paranoid of antennas is because where I grew up my parents couldn't get cable. They had one of those 40 ft. antennas to get local channels. So far since i've grown up, thier house has been struck four times. I wounder if I called and told Direct T.V. that i'm cancelling and going to Dish network if thier prices would change. Also I wounder if Dish network would give me a deal to leave Direct T.V.. I have been with Direct T.V. for about three years now, so I could drop them when ever I want. Also, a surge protector would help reduce the risk of getting hit by lightning. It doesn't ellimnate it. You can still lose everything even if you have one of those super expensive ones like Monster or Exact Power.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/HDTV.dsp

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/p...hd/index.shtml

~C.C.~

[sokelly]

I also have DTV and am looking into HD. As a result of my research I am probably switching to Comcast cable. Here are my reasons:
1) Dont want to pay for the HD receiver for DTV. Comcast rents it for $5 per month. I'll rent for a while till I figure things out. No way I'm shelling out $500.
2) Comcast has more HD channels without the upcharge (direct TV costs another 9.99 per mo
3) Comcast will give you $400 to switch ($25 per month for 16 months)
4) The whole local channels thing is a pain with DTV. It says you can seamlessly integrate them, but I am not so sure and I definitely am not interested in integrating an off-air antenna into the mix.\
5) You have to have a 3 LNB dish. I have two and the want me to pay for the re-fitting.
6) No contract with comcast. I'll switch and if DTV gets their act together, I'll switch back

My 2 cents. Now....how about the whole HD Tivo thing???.....????

Shane

[GaToy]

I'll check on the Dish Net thing.
~C.C.~

[GaToy]

Well woodman, sadly I must report that you are wrong. Maybe it's you who should do your homework. Noone is giving away HD recievers. At least not in my area. I called Dish Net directly and they don't even sell recievers. They said that I would have to go to either Sears or Radio Shack and buy one. But I didn't stop there. There is a Dish Net store in town so I stopped in and talked with them. The way it works if you go with one of the local shop using one of thier's it kinda like cable. You rent the box from them. After a couple of years you could have just spent the couple hundred dollars and been done with it. I think i'll just wait till 2006 when the networks will be forced to change thier format by the FCC.

~C.C.~

[Woochifer]

Pretty strong words when you talk about "raping" customers. Basically, you're asking for Directv to provide you upgraded service and new equipment with higher picture resolution and 5.1 digital sound for not much more than you're paying right now? And if you don't get that, then they're "raping" you? Let's not get carried away here. It's nothing more than capitalism at work. You want the latest technology? You can pay more to get it right now, or you can wait and expect to pay less for it later on.

First thing's first, Directv's current offer is $400 (plus S&H) for a new Hughes HD receiver, elliptical dish, and installation. The only catch is that you commit to their HD programming package for one-year, and that package costs $11/month. It includes ESPN HD, Discovery HD, HDNet, and HDNet movies. And if you already subscribe to HBO or Showtime, you'll get the HD feed for those channels. At Best Buy, just that Hughes HD receiver alone would cost you about $400. I don't know where that customer service rep got the $500 price from. You already linked to the site, and the offer's right there.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/HDTV.dsp

And what's with the fuzzy math? $100 a channel?! The HD program package is $11/month and gives you four HD channels. The Hughes receiver can also capture over-the-air HD broadcasts, and that doesn't cost you anything, aside from the aerial antenna (and if you're concerned about lightning strikes, you don't have to install a UHF antenna outside depending on where you live; attic installations or other indoor options can also be used). And it's not like Directv's going to stay with seven HD channels forever.

Directv's giving away the regular boxes because those are basic commodified services that people take for granted. Anything beyond the basics will cost you extra. You want a DVR included? You pay more. You want interactive services? You pay more. You want the extra sports programming? You pay more. You want HD service? You pay more.

HDTV is just barely exiting the early adoptor stage. If you don't want to pay the asking price, then you just live without the upgraded service and wait until HDTV service becomes just as commodified as basic satellite services are right now.

[GaToy]

I'm not complaining about paying more, i'm complaining about paying way too much more. You are probably one of these people that money is no option so that you can have all the newest stuff. I don't care about keeping up with the Jones's. I'm watching the same thing with HD T.V. as is happening with SACD and DVD Audio. They are now having to drop they're prices before they fall into the abiss with DAT and BETA. They are just now starting to offer hardware at copetitive prices. The same HD T.V.'s, now they are starting to get down to the common man's price range. But the programming for that technology is falling short. And I believe i'm entitled to my opinion just as everyone else. If we all thought the same way this would be a pretty boring world.

~C.C.~

[Woochifer]

I'm not complaining about paying more, i'm complaining about paying way too much more. You are probably one of these people that money is no option so that you can have all the newest stuff. I don't care about keeping up with the Jones's. I'm watching the same thing with HD T.V. as is happening with SACD and DVD Audio. They are now having to drop they're prices before they fall into the abiss with DAT and BETA. They are just now starting to offer hardware at copetitive prices. The same HD T.V.'s, now they are starting to get down to the common man's price range. But the programming for that technology is falling short. And I believe i'm entitled to my opinion just as everyone else. If we all thought the same way this would be a pretty boring world.

~C.C.~

Actually you ARE complaining about paying more to get more. The crux of it is that you want to pay mature market commodity prices for a product that's just transitioning out of the early adoptor stage. If you want to pay less for upgraded service, you wait for the market to catch up and for prices to fall into a more acceptable range. Less than two years ago, a settop HD tuner would have set you back at least $800, and that did not even include satellite access. Now, a $400 receiver will get you the HD tuner and Directv access. Next year at this time, I'm sure you'll find even lower hardware prices and a much greater variety of HD programming options available. The choice is yours as to what time is right to make that leap.

You're entitled to your opinion, but don't try to make assumptions about someone just because they don't share your perspective. Quite the contrary, I've NEVER been an early adoptor for any new technology precisely because early adoption is the same as burning money. (But, I didn't complain when DVD players cost $800 either, because at that price the technology was meaningless to me; only when the hardware fell into a more acceptable cost range did I make the jump.) People who've known me on this board for a while can tell you that I more often than not recommend against upgrades into the latest and supposedly greatest technologies because the price/benefit just isn't there at the early stages.

I am looking into the Directv HD package, but only because my seven year-old satellite receiver has begun shorting out. And if I'm going to pay $100 for a replacement unit, I might as well think about $400 for something that will give me 5.1 surround sound in the short-run and HD resolution for the long run (unlike what you think, I haven't bought an HD monitor yet because I've been gradually upgrading my audio system to 5.1 over the past two years).

[GaToy]

Actually you ARE complaining about paying more to get more. The crux of it is that you want to pay mature market commodity prices for a product that's just transitioning out of the early adoptor stage. If you want to pay less for upgraded service, you wait for the market to catch up and for prices to fall into a more acceptable range. Less than two years ago, a settop HD tuner would have set you back at least $800, and that did not even include satellite access. Now, a $400 receiver will get you the HD tuner and Directv access. Next year at this time, I'm sure you'll find even lower hardware prices and a much greater variety of HD programming options available. The choice is yours as to what time is right to make that leap.

You're entitled to your opinion, but don't try to make assumptions about someone just because they don't share your perspective. Quite the contrary, I've NEVER been an early adoptor for any new technology precisely because early adoption is the same as burning money. (But, I didn't complain when DVD players cost $800 either, because at that price the technology was meaningless to me; only when the hardware fell into a more acceptable cost range did I make the jump.) People who've known me on this board for a while can tell you that I more often than not recommend against upgrades into the latest and supposedly greatest technologies because the price/benefit just isn't there at the early stages.

I am looking into the Directv HD package, but only because my seven year-old satellite receiver has begun shorting out. And if I'm going to pay $100 for a replacement unit, I might as well think about $400 for something that will give me 5.1 surround sound in the short-run and HD resolution for the long run (unlike what you think, I haven't bought an HD monitor yet because I've been gradually upgrading my audio system to 5.1 over the past two years).

For someone that types so much you haven't said anything. I don't care if you agree with me or not. I feel you need to step back and take a look at yourself. If you have an opinion I don't agree with good. I like to see it. It helps with diversity. But I think your taking this too personally and it's quit pathetic. Why get this worked up? Are you trying to impress someone? As for me, I have never bought something because it just came out. Almost everything in my theater has been discontinued. And whats with th 5.1? Aren't you wanting to step up to 6.1 or what I have 7.1? I don't know why you are taking this personally but I have nothing against you. Lets keep it that way. Now I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving.

~Chris~

[bikehikefish]

And if I'm going to pay $100 for a replacement unit, I might as well think about $400 for something that will give me 5.1 surround sound in the short-run and HD resolution for the long run (unlike what you think, I haven't bought an HD monitor yet because I've been gradually upgrading my audio system to 5.1 over the past two years).

Even without HD, you can already get 5.1 sound from DirectTV on selected pay for view programs. When you look at the program descriptions, the dolby icon is displayed. Seems like on a typical day there is anywhere from 2 - 5 movies broadcast in 5.1 (why not more!!)

[Woochifer]

For someone that types so much you haven't said anything. I don't care if you agree with me or not. I feel you need to step back and take a look at yourself. If you have an opinion I don't agree with good. I like to see it. It helps with diversity. But I think your taking this too personally and it's quit pathetic. Why get this worked up? Are you trying to impress someone? As for me, I have never bought something because it just came out. Almost everything in my theater has been discontinued. And whats with th 5.1? Aren't you wanting to step up to 6.1 or what I have 7.1? I don't know why you are taking this personally but I have nothing against you. Lets keep it that way. Now I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving.

~Chris~

And for someone who's trying to depersonalize the discussion, you're injecting an awful lot of inneuendo and assumptions into the discussion without really addressing any of the points that I brought up. I never take discussions on this or any other forum personally, and if you think I am, you're reading way too far into my comments and coming up with visions that don't mesh with reality.

But, taking it back to what you brought up in the first place, you're the one who was accusing the industry of "raping" its customers by charging more for HD services. And I'm just bringing your initial comments back to reality.

Even though addressing this point this is veering off on a tangent, I have a 5.1 system because that's what I started building two years ago, and I do not plan to upgrade that in the near future. 6.1 and "7.1" are meaningless to me because my room does not have enough space behind the listening position to properly accommodate the sixth and/or seventh speaker. (And in my listenings, a properly setup 5.1 system will always outperform an improperly setup 6.1 or "7.1" system) Plus, only about 100 out of the nearly 30,000 DVD titles on the market have any kind of EX or ES encoding, and the formats have been available for home use for nearly three years. You get at least that many 5.1 titles getting released every month. So, for me the 6.1/"7.1" upgrade would be a lot of investment for minimal benefit. If someone is building a system from the ground up right now, they would get the 6.1/"7.1" capability whether they can make use of it or not.

Nothing personal with you either, so happy holidays.

[GaToy]

And for someone who's trying to depersonalize the discussion, you're injecting an awful lot of inneuendo and assumptions into the discussion without really addressing any of the points that I brought up. I never take discussions on this or any other forum personally, and if you think I am, you're reading way too far into my comments and coming up with visions that don't mesh with reality.

But, taking it back to what you brought up in the first place, you're the one who was accusing the industry of "raping" its customers by charging more for HD services. And I'm just bringing your initial comments back to reality.

Even though addressing this point this is veering off on a tangent, I have a 5.1 system because that's what I started building two years ago, and I do not plan to upgrade that in the near future. 6.1 and "7.1" are meaningless to me because my room does not have enough space behind the listening position to properly accommodate the sixth and/or seventh speaker. (And in my listenings, a properly setup 5.1 system will always outperform an improperly setup 6.1 or "7.1" system) Plus, only about 100 out of the nearly 30,000 DVD titles on the market have any kind of EX or ES encoding, and the formats have been available for home use for nearly three years. You get at least that many 5.1 titles getting released every month. So, for me the 6.1/"7.1" upgrade would be a lot of investment for minimal benefit. If someone is building a system from the ground up right now, they would get the 6.1/"7.1" capability whether they can make use of it or not.

Nothing personal with you either, so happy holidays.

Doesn't it look really assinign when someone quotes your entire pargraph. It looks like they are to ignorant to quote just the part they don't agree with. Or they weren't smart enough to figure it out. And I didn't answer any of your points because you didn't bring up any legitament ones. The fact that you feel the current pricing is fair is obsurd. It reminds me of an old saying. "You can't rape the willing." Oh, wait, thats right you aren't one the consumers fighting to get this are you. Heck, if it took you 5 years to get 5.1 HD will probably be replaced before you get there in the next ten or fifteen. I don't take your comments seriously because they have no legitamcy. Its the public demand that brings pricing down not the many cowaring sheep that pretend to be audiophiles or enthusiasts. $150-$200 would be fair not $400-$600. and HD is not new technology. I never said they should give it away but that its priced too high at the current time. You are the one that isn't graping the reality of what is printed before you. You are rading into this what you want to see rather than what it is. HD first hit stores almost five years ago. But because of the pace in which you shop you probably haven't noticed. Those of us who have raised hell about SACD and DVD Audio prices are already reeping the benefits and they haven't been around as long as High Definition television. And i'm sure your going to come back on here with a rebuttal because you are not here to help but yet to find someone to argue with. And i'm quit sure your one of those that has to have the last word. But, nothing personal.

~C.C.~

[IsmaVA]

Mr. GaToy it seems that you do not remember how much you had to pay for DBS when it first came out. I remember. My first system placed me almost $1000 in the hole, and it wasn't that reliable to begin with.

High prices is what you get for being at the edge of technology. A year ago you had to pay double of what you pay today for most HDTV's.

I am pretty sure HD receiver prices will drop to more logical levels in a couple of years, so there is alway the option of just waiting.

Now, if you want HDTV right away get pay the price and be done with it, or, like woodman said, get a superdupper line protector and get yourself hooked with OTA. The "lighting bolt" excuse is pretty lame. A dbs antenna is pretty much the same risk as a normal OTA antenna, and if a lighting really hits you. . .well . . .cash in the insurance a buy new stuff . . .

:-)

[bennie25]

It seems as though Christmas came early to my house as my wife and I( notice how tactful I am) picked out the Sony KF50WE610.. LCD rear projection TV. Yep , it was expensive but all of the newer sets were,, Samsung, Hitachi, Panny, all of them. However Sears done me right and I walked out for under $2800.00 with a free(rebate) progressive scan DVD and free delivery. I bought the extended warranty as I don't want to take an unprotected chance on unproven technology(longevity).
The point of my post was that I knew that if I wanted to continue with Direct TV that I had to purchase a HD receiver. The question was how much was I willing to pay. I shopped around and found that Direct have the best price for a HD system, $399.00 plus shipping. With that you got free installation but if you are already receiving the signal how much installation is involved. I then started or should I say I attempted to barter with Direct and after some time was able to have my monthly bill reduced by $20.00 a month for 6 months--saving $120.00. Now the unit costs me $279.00, pretty good I think. My point is this, if I want new technology then I must give up something, however ,I don't feel that I have to pay full price, hence I got what I wanted, paid a fair price ( I think) and enjoy it every time I plop down in front of it.

[GaToy]

IsmaVA what you seem to have forgotten is people also paid $1500 for Lazer Disk. What did that get them? A really expensive antique. Just as D Theater will soon be. You need to remember one thing. The public rules the market. If venders don't make thier product readily available to the consumer for a competetive price that product will die. I think bennie25 got a great deal on his unit. There is a big difference between $399 and $279. And now that I have found someone who has been able to jew Direct down a little I will see if they will do the same with me. I'd be very interested in signing up for $279 but we'll see. That was the point of me starting this post was to find people that had gotten better deals.

~C.C.~

[happy ears]

With all new technologies there is an additional price to enter the market early. There are several reasons for this, new components that are built in limited supply, higher cost of productions as certain parts are new. Basically when a new format or technology comes out there are higher cost associated with it. Color televisions, CD players, LCD screens, DVD players and the list goes on. Look at the price of these products today. My friend has been eyeing Plasma TV's since they first hit the market but the price has stopped him from buying. But he always thanks those that want and can afford this new products, the more they sell the price goes down.

Concerned about a new format not succeeding, well you well just have to wait until it is established. Good news is that once these new products have established there markets the masses can now afford them.

[GaToy]

Ya'll keep calling HD new. Why? Its almost been out for five years. If it were a video game console it would be on it's way out by now. It has nothing to do with the fact that it is new but everything about industry not mainsteaming it until 2006. That way they can sqeeze every cent out of it up till that point. What many of you fail to realize is I have no problem spending more money for new technology. But the qauntity is lacking the price. I have close to $6000 invested in my home theater so far. A drop in the bucket for alot of people. Know I would love for someone to rationalize spending $400 on seven channels. And i'm not going to let this drop. I can talk about this until 2006 so I hope your ready.

~C.C.~

[happy ears]

The industry in North Americs has been very slow to adapt to this technologstry. You could always move to Europe or Japan they are much further ahead than us. I live in Canada and we must wait until the United States adapts new formats because of our lack of population. Want to see how slow I am, just starting to look at Home Theatre but have had a stereo all my adult life. Only started buying CD's five years ago, at first I thought they where to expensive but know look at the price. Look at the price of records today!

Have A Great Day

[Rob1956]

GaToy: It's pretty much conventional wisdom in the broadcast industry and in Congress that the 2006 switchover is not going to happen. Congress is beginning to realize that it will be 2010-2015 before analog will be completely switched off as far as tv broadcasting is concerned.
Yes, they would like to keep the 2006 deadline, but the public is far slower to switch over than origionally thought.

[Woochifer]

Doesn't it look really assinign when someone quotes your entire pargraph. It looks like they are to ignorant to quote just the part they don't agree with. Or they weren't smart enough to figure it out. And I didn't answer any of your points because you didn't bring up any legitament ones.

Or perhaps you don't have any points of your own to add to the discussion, which is fine and no fault of your own.

The fact that you feel the current pricing is fair is obsurd. It reminds me of an old saying. "You can't rape the willing." Oh, wait, thats right you aren't one the consumers fighting to get this are you. Heck, if it took you 5 years to get 5.1 HD will probably be replaced before you get there in the next ten or fifteen.

If I felt the pricing was fair, I would have jumped on it by now. How does "fighting to get this" help to lower prices to a more acceptable level? Again, you're making false assumptions. For someone who's claiming not to take things personally, you sure are trying to pin a lot of inneuendo on me. You're more than welcome to, but it does nothing to serve your perspective or argument.

You accuse the industry of "raping" its customers. Well, if you don't like what they do, then don't give them any of your currency. It's a pretty simple response.

I don't take your comments seriously because they have no legitamcy. Its the public demand that brings pricing down not the many cowaring sheep that pretend to be audiophiles or enthusiasts.

And I don't take whining seriously either. Take an econ class sometime, complaining is not the same as market demand. Demand actually keeps prices high, lack of demand drives them down.

$150-$200 would be fair not $400-$600. and HD is not new technology. I never said they should give it away but that its priced too high at the current time. You are the one that isn't graping the reality of what is printed before you. You are rading into this what you want to see rather than what it is. HD first hit stores almost five years ago. But because of the pace in which you shop you probably haven't noticed. Those of us who have raised hell about SACD and DVD Audio prices are already reeping the benefits and they haven't been around as long as High Definition television.

You think that SACD and DVD-A prices came down because you were sitting down somewhere, while whining and complaining about the pricing? Well, congratulations -- go ahead and take credit for it. I'll thank you when I get around to buying a universal player. The prices came down because hardly anyone was buying the discs when they were priced at $30, and guys like Sony/Philips and Warner/Toshiba are trying to seed the market so that they can ensure a flow of licensing revenue for the next 20 or so years (or until the DVD and SACD patents expire). There's a format rivalry because Warner and Toshiba hold most of the DVD (and DVD-A) patents, and Sony/Philips' CD patents (and licensing revenue stream) are ready to expire. It's a tug of war for market share, and the only way to increase market share is to drive down the prices. That's the big picture, evidently a point that seems to elude you.

Like I keep saying, if it's priced too high, then don't buy it! No one's putting a gun to your head, and no Sony execs are sticking GHB into your drinks so that they can truck you out to Best Buy and force HD services down your throat.

And i'm sure your going to come back on here with a rebuttal because you are not here to help but yet to find someone to argue with. And i'm quit sure your one of those that has to have the last word. But, nothing personal.

~C.C.~

If your posts were factually correct, then I wouldn't have anything to rebut.

For someone who claims to be new to this board, you sure as hell know a lot about me. Yeah, I just argue for its own sake. Every post I've ever made about subwoofer setup, format support, speaker alignment, room acoustics, etc. was all done for argument's sake and with callous disregard for the rest of the forum community. Yup you know all about me, and all I know about you is that you welcome differing opinions and don't take things personally. Have a nice day.

[GaToy]

Let me feel sorry for you. Someone needs to. Your input into this thread has got to be the most pityfull thing I have ever seen. And its good to see my preminitions were correct about you. Your a whinny little *****. The only reason you come on here is too argue with someone about something you know nothing about. You have not shown me that you have any knowledge about anything. If you want to see whinning go above and read any one of your posts. But nothing personal. Have a nice day.

~C.C.~

[Woochifer]

Let me feel sorry for you. Someone needs to. Your input into this thread has got to be the most pityfull thing I have ever seen. And its good to see my preminitions were correct about you. Your a whinny little *****. The only reason you come on here is too argue with someone about something you know nothing about. You have not shown me that you have any knowledge about anything. If you want to see whinning go above and read any one of your posts. But nothing personal. Have a nice day.

~C.C.~

For someone who was quitting the thread and above taking things to a personal level, that perverbial black kettle is calling your name rather loudly. I suggest you answer the call before you dig yourself in deeper.

[GaToy]

You can get a Hi-Def" receiver for free from Dish Network

You know i'm still looking for these free recievers your talking about.

~C.C.~

[GaToy]

Every post I've ever made about subwoofer setup, format support, speaker alignment, room acoustics, etc. was all done for argument's sake and with callous disregard for the rest of the forum community.

And if you know as much about those topics as you know about this one those people are in trouble. I think until you do some more research you should kep your mouth shut before you end up looking worse than you already are.

~C.C.~