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  1. #1
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    New Yamaha RX-V1600/2600 midlevel receivers: Can you say HDMI?

    Just looking on a spec/feature sheet, it looks like Yamaha has hit the sweet spot with their upcoming midlevel receiver lineup. Their new RX-V1600 and 2600 models bump up the output by about 10 watts/channel and add an XM satellite radio tuner (like their entry level models did earlier this summer).

    But, the big news with the 1600 and 2600 is that both of these models have HDMI 1.1 switching, which means that they can switch and decode both the video and audio streams. The HDMI audio decoding means that the receiver can directly decode DVD-A signals without requiring an analog output or proprietary digital link. JVC has included HDMI 1.1 switching with their receivers since spring, but I don't believe that they implemented the audio streaming with their first models. In addition, the 1600 and 2600 will convert analog composite, S-video, and component video to HDMI, AND upconvert 480p signals into 720p/1180i HDMI signals. Good news for anyone with an assortment of analog and digital video sources, and for anyone who actually plans on braving the early adaptor path for HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray.

    Obviously, this totally ups the ante for every manufacturer at the midlevel price point (around $1,000). Just as the RX-V1400 and 2400 two years ago put pressure on competing brands to include auto calibration and parametric equalization with their midlevel models, the 1600 and 2600 is also a sign that HDMI upconversion and integrated video/audio streaming thru the HDMI connection will likely be a very common feature by this time next year.

    The only bad news in this introduction is that Yamaha has now bumped up its price points by $200 to match Denon's higher prices. The RX-V1600 will list for $1,100, while the RX-V2600 will list for $1,300. Just two years ago, the RX-V1400 was introduced at $800. The audio features on the newer models (except for the HDMI audio streaming) are not all that different from the 1400 and 2400.

    Denon's recently announced AVR-3806 will also include HDMI switching and audio streaming. The Denon and Yamaha models trade off in that the Denon AVR-3806 can use the Denon Link digital audio connection that allows for digital connections with DVD-A AND SACD (provided that the universal player also uses a compatible digital link), while the Yamahas do analog video to HDMI conversion.

    Good news is that if you don't plan on using any of the new features, you can now buy the 1500, 2500, and 3805, which already have lower list prices, at closeout prices.

    http://www.audioholics.com/cedia/ced...1600receiv.php
    Last edited by Woochifer; 09-14-2005 at 04:56 PM. Reason: withOUT requiring an analog output or proprietary digital link

  2. #2
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Woo hoo...that's grrrreaaat news. I'm not in a hurry to pawn off my 1400. But in another year or two when these things get tweaked a bit, become a bit cheaper, and I do start to think about upgrading, it's nice to know I'll be able to shed a dozen or so cables...heck, that might even be worth the $200 jump...the wife to be's been on my tail about that mess o' cables forever now...

    How many HDMI inputs/outputs? The more the merrier.

  3. #3
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    They just keep making these things better and better. Way cool. If they could only keep the price down though.
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  4. #4
    JSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Woo hoo...that's grrrreaaat news. I'm not in a hurry to pawn off my 1400. But in another year or two when these things get tweaked a bit, become a bit cheaper, and I do start to think about upgrading, it's nice to know I'll be able to shed a dozen or so cables...heck, that might even be worth the $200 jump...the wife to be's been on my tail about that mess o' cables forever now...

    How many HDMI inputs/outputs? The more the merrier.

    I'm with ya on no hurry to get rid of my 1400 but I do wish I had the XM. I have been thinking about getting the Polk XM tuner. Maybe when I upgrade my TV and DVD player I will consider the newer line of Yamaha's. Right now, if you don't need HDMI or XM, the RX-V1400/2400 are essentially the same receiver. Glad to see Yamaha leading the pack as usual with new technology.

    JSE

  5. #5
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    I went to Yamaha's website to check these out. Bummer man. They aren't on there yet. How do you get news on a new model before the manufacturer even puts it on their site? Come on now. Who's getting the insider trading information here.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    I went to Yamaha's website to check these out. Bummer man. They aren't on there yet. How do you get news on a new model before the manufacturer even puts it on their site? Come on now. Who's getting the insider trading information here.
    The site I pulled the info from was reporting from the CEDIA Expo, which is the annual gathering for professional home theater installers, and plenty of product announcements typically come out of that event.

    Or maybe they got someone on their staff who reads Japanese.

    http://www.yamaha.co.jp/news/2005/05090701.html

    If you want the full scoop, you don't have to wait too long -- they're due in stores sometime in October, which is in line with Yamaha's typical upgrade pattern (the new entry level receivers are typically announced in April and in stores by the end of May, and the midlevel receivers are usually announced in August or September and in stores by the end of October).

  7. #7
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Woo hoo...that's grrrreaaat news. I'm not in a hurry to pawn off my 1400. But in another year or two when these things get tweaked a bit, become a bit cheaper, and I do start to think about upgrading, it's nice to know I'll be able to shed a dozen or so cables...heck, that might even be worth the $200 jump...the wife to be's been on my tail about that mess o' cables forever now...

    How many HDMI inputs/outputs? The more the merrier.
    I totally hear ya! My RX-V800 is already three generations behind your 1400, and up this point I've not been tempted at all to make a parallel upgrade to a different receiver. But, once I make the HDTV upgrade, the video switching and upconversion functions on the 1600 (or any other receivers with similar HDMI implementation that will come out in the next several months) will make it a very tempting purchase. Also, it would allow for the receiver to do the DVD-A decoding and integrate the output into the receiver's bass management. Considering that I patch the subwoofer output into a parametric EQ, this would allow me to maintain one EQ profile for all sources.

    Like your situation, my wife has been very patient with the gaggle of cords that we got snaking around the living room. They're well hidden, but my wife knows they're there! Currently I have only one S-vid cable going out to the TV. With HDTV, a HD satellite receiver, a VCR, a PS2, and a progressive scan universal player, my future video setup using my current receiver (which does no video upconversion of any kind) could wind up needing a combination of S-vid, component vid, AND HDMI cabling going into the HDTV, and that would will not go over well with my better half!

    The new Yamahas will have two HDMI in/one HDMI out. Not a whole lot, but it's a start.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    I'm with ya on no hurry to get rid of my 1400 but I do wish I had the XM. I have been thinking about getting the Polk XM tuner. Maybe when I upgrade my TV and DVD player I will consider the newer line of Yamaha's. Right now, if you don't need HDMI or XM, the RX-V1400/2400 are essentially the same receiver. Glad to see Yamaha leading the pack as usual with new technology.
    That's where I'm at as well. These HDMI features don't matter to me one bit right now because I still use a 4:3 non-HD TV and non-progressive DVD player. But, after I upgrade the TV, satellite receiver, and DVD player, these video processing functions will very much come in handy. Having DPLIIx, DTS 96/24, Neo:6, and the YPAO calibration (all of which I currently lack on my receiver) along for the ride make for a very nice added bonus.
    Last edited by Woochifer; 09-14-2005 at 02:47 PM.

  8. #8
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    What's all the HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 stuff all about?
    I'm assuming it has something to do with how much data can transfer across the cable.

    With all of the new formats and tech. hanging around, wouldn't it seem like a bad idea to upgrade at this time?

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    What's all the HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 stuff all about?
    I'm assuming it has something to do with how much data can transfer across the cable.

    With all of the new formats and tech. hanging around, wouldn't it seem like a bad idea to upgrade at this time?
    HDMI is taking hold in the market because it's a secure digital video connection, and the entire HD market is moving in that direction -- from all new HDTVs to satellite receivers and the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray players. This has nothing to do with data transfer capacity, since analog component video already has more than enough bandwidth to handle HD signals.

    Rather, it has everything to do with copy protection. Progressive analog video will likely be limited to 480p resolution for HD devices coming out in the future (imposing that 480p limitation on HD-DVD and Blu-ray is only the first step in the studios' copy-protection agenda -- they want that analog output limitation on all other future HD devices).

    The promise of HDMI is in its ability to handle both video and audio signals through one connection cable. The first version of HDMI did not implement the audio streaming and only carried video signals. With HDMI 1.1, the audio signals can be decoded separately from the video using one connection, and that's what the new Yamaha receivers have implemented.

    With electronics, there's never a perfect time to upgrade, but if you look at the new TVs, DVD players, and HD devices in stores, you'll see that most of the current models out there now include HDMI. And with HD-DVD and Blu-ray, the ONLY way to get true HD resolution will be through the HDMI output.

  10. #10
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    HDMI is taking hold in the market because it's a secure digital video connection, and the entire HD market is moving in that direction -- from all new HDTVs to satellite receivers and the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray players. This has nothing to do with data transfer capacity, since analog component video already has more than enough bandwidth to handle HD signals.

    Rather, it has everything to do with copy protection. Progressive analog video will likely be limited to 480p resolution for HD devices coming out in the future (imposing that 480p limitation on HD-DVD and Blu-ray is only the first step in the studios' copy-protection agenda -- they want that analog output limitation on all other future HD devices).

    The promise of HDMI is in its ability to handle both video and audio signals through one connection cable. The first version of HDMI did not implement the audio streaming and only carried video signals. With HDMI 1.1, the audio signals can be decoded separately from the video using one connection, and that's what the new Yamaha receivers have implemented.

    With electronics, there's never a perfect time to upgrade, but if you look at the new TVs, DVD players, and HD devices in stores, you'll see that most of the current models out there now include HDMI. And with HD-DVD and Blu-ray, the ONLY way to get true HD resolution will be through the HDMI output.
    Thanks for the reply. I just slowly upgraded my entire system so this is something I will not have to worry about for awhile.

  11. #11
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    They just keep making these things better and better. Way cool. If they could only keep the price down though.
    The price points on these midlevel receivers had held steady for at least the past six years. Denon was the first the break ranks on the price points a couple of years ago. Yamaha only pushed the price points up when they introduced the RX-V1500 and 2500 last year, which IMO was a very tepid update to the 1400 and 2400 (which represented a major change because of the YPAO calibration and redesign to THX specs) and did not warrant a $100 price increase. The 1600 and 2600 seem like much more substantial upgrades, but they now go for $300 more than the 1400 and 2400 did two years, despite not a whole lot of changes to the audio processing and amplification. It will be interesting to see how quickly the other manufacturers start incorporating HDMI 1.1 and analog video upconversion into their new models, and whether they choose to match the new price points.

  12. #12
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    I

    The new Yamahas will have two HDMI in/one HDMI out. Not a whole lot, but it's a start.
    Hmmm, just got to thinking - most of us would probably only ever need ONE HDMI out...presumably to the TV.
    I don't mind having muliple profiles on the BFD...I manually turn on my BFD and amps, and load any DVD-A's/SACD's whenever I listen to them anyway...it was a bit of a pain to setup at first, but oh well. I'm old fashioned though, I prefer touching my gear as opposed to remotes. I can build speakers and computers but me and universal remotes don't get along at all.

    I've never been excited about a cable like I am with HDMI...any word if next generation game consoles will be using them? Imagine one cable per Xbox/PS X , universal DVD player and STB, and then maybe an optical/analog connection for CD player replacing (in my case) 9 component video inputs, 4 optical/coaxial digital cables, and 10 RCA cables.
    Not bad at all...

  13. #13
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    $1200 for an AVR...shouldn't one go by a used set of separates or storm the Outlaw gates?

    JUST KIDDING....

    Those are nice upgrades indeed. Any word about Sirius sat. radio in a receiver? XM jumped into the fray quickly, but i have a Sirius subscription and use an external unit that plugs into my HK receiver....just curious.

  14. #14
    3db
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    Thanks for the news Woof

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Just looking on a spec/feature sheet, it looks like Yamaha has hit the sweet spot with their upcoming midlevel receiver lineup. Their new RX-V1600 and 2600 models bump up the output by about 10 watts/channel and add an XM satellite radio tuner (like their entry level models did earlier this summer).

    But, the big news with the 1600 and 2600 is that both of these models have HDMI 1.1 switching, which means that they can switch and decode both the video and audio streams. The HDMI audio decoding means that the receiver can directly decode DVD-A signals without requiring an analog output or proprietary digital link. JVC has included HDMI 1.1 switching with their receivers since spring, but I don't believe that they implemented the audio streaming with their first models. In addition, the 1600 and 2600 will convert analog composite, S-video, and component video to HDMI, AND upconvert 480p signals into 720p/1180i HDMI signals. Good news for anyone with an assortment of analog and digital video sources, and for anyone who actually plans on braving the early adaptor path for HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray.

    Obviously, this totally ups the ante for every manufacturer at the midlevel price point (around $1,000). Just as the RX-V1400 and 2400 two years ago put pressure on competing brands to include auto calibration and parametric equalization with their midlevel models, the 1600 and 2600 is also a sign that HDMI upconversion and integrated video/audio streaming thru the HDMI connection will likely be a very common feature by this time next year.

    The only bad news in this introduction is that Yamaha has now bumped up its price points by $200 to match Denon's higher prices. The RX-V1600 will list for $1,100, while the RX-V2600 will list for $1,300. Just two years ago, the RX-V1400 was introduced at $800. The audio features on the newer models (except for the HDMI audio streaming) are not all that different from the 1400 and 2400.

    Denon's recently announced AVR-3806 will also include HDMI switching and audio streaming. The Denon and Yamaha models trade off in that the Denon AVR-3806 can use the Denon Link digital audio connection that allows for digital connections with DVD-A AND SACD (provided that the universal player also uses a compatible digital link), while the Yamahas do analog video to HDMI conversion.

    Good news is that if you don't plan on using any of the new features, you can now buy the 1500, 2500, and 3805, which already have lower list prices, at closeout prices.

    http://www.audioholics.com/cedia/ced...1600receiv.php

    I'm a lil bummed out with this news as I see Yamaha begin to creep out of my price league slowly. Maybe its time to re-evaluate my budget and see if I can up it a lil more. (I can see the fights with my spouse happening already.) You know, these prices are creeping near NAD (minus most of the bells and whistles) or an Outlaw Combo (most of the mells and whistles) . I guess I was asking too much by hoping that Yamaha would keep their prices a lil lower. Oh well... (Straps on the boxing gloves) Time for round one

  15. #15
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    The site I pulled the info from was reporting from the CEDIA Expo, which is the annual gathering for professional home theater installers, and plenty of product announcements typically come out of that event.

    Or maybe they got someone on their staff who reads Japanese.

    http://www.yamaha.co.jp/news/2005/05090701.html

    If you want the full scoop, you don't have to wait too long -- they're due in stores sometime in October, which is in line with Yamaha's typical upgrade pattern (the new entry level receivers are typically announced in April and in stores by the end of May, and the midlevel receivers are usually announced in August or September and in stores by the end of October).
    Thanks Wooch,

    Will it be available in that cool gold color around here or only in Japan?
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  16. #16
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Soooooo your TV has HDMI and your DVD player has HDMI and your receiver has HDMI and most likly something else i havent thought of also has HDMI. So how does the hookup go to use all of them?
    Look & Listen

  17. #17
    JSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel_
    $1200 for an AVR...shouldn't one go by a used set of separates or storm the Outlaw gates?

    JUST KIDDING....

    Those are nice upgrades indeed. Any word about Sirius sat. radio in a receiver? XM jumped into the fray quickly, but i have a Sirius subscription and use an external unit that plugs into my HK receiver....just curious.

    Slight hijack - Sorry

    Hey Tarheel,

    How do you like your Sirius unit and what brand is it? Is the sound pretty good? I have been really considering getting an XM or Serius external component like the Polk Audio unit for XM. I have not really looked at the options out there yet for each format.

    JSE

  18. #18
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Soooooo your TV has HDMI and your DVD player has HDMI and your receiver has HDMI and most likly something else i havent thought of also has HDMI. So how does the hookup go to use all of them?
    Simple, HDMI carries digital video + audio...one cable from DVD player (or any other source component) to receiver. Then only 1 cable from receiver to TV. T
    Instead of an optical cable for audio + component video cables for video.

    You could connect straight from the source unit to the TV if you don't have a receiver, or want to bypass for some reason.

  19. #19
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quick ?

    HDMI and DVI are the same correct? Besides the fact that DVI is video only, of course.

    I ask because my JVC supports DVI ony.

  20. #20
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Sir Wooch,
    I wanna know where's DD trueHD and Dts+? What good is a HDMI connection and no new decoding? That's what I wanna know.
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  21. #21
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I don't mind having muliple profiles on the BFD...I manually turn on my BFD and amps, and load any DVD-A's/SACD's whenever I listen to them anyway...it was a bit of a pain to setup at first, but oh well. I'm old fashioned though, I prefer touching my gear as opposed to remotes. I can build speakers and computers but me and universal remotes don't get along at all.

    I've never been excited about a cable like I am with HDMI...any word if next generation game consoles will be using them? Imagine one cable per Xbox/PS X , universal DVD player and STB, and then maybe an optical/analog connection for CD player replacing (in my case) 9 component video inputs, 4 optical/coaxial digital cables, and 10 RCA cables.
    Not bad at all...
    I've grown to appreciate the virtues of remotes, so the appeal of HDMI supporting DVD-A is pretty appealing to me.

    As far as the video game consoles go. I'm pretty sure that both Xbox 360 and PS3 will have HDMI outputs. No idea if they will restrict HD resolution from the gameplay to the HDMI outputs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I wanna know where's DD trueHD and Dts+? What good is a HDMI connection and no new decoding? That's what I wanna know.
    Man, for someone who's sitting on the HD-DVD/Blu-ray sidelines, sounds like you still got a bigtime upgrade bug going! I would guess that Yamaha would more likely debut those higher resolution formats with a flagship model rather than a midlevel receiver (although their YPAO auto calibration did debut on a midlevel model). For my purposes, I just like the idea of all of my video sources getting output through one HDMI cable, and if a receiver upscales all of my analog and non-HD video sources and eliminates a few cables from my system in the process, all the better.

    I'm just waiting for any info on how the new DD TrueHD and DTS-HD formats actually sound, and whether the actual HD-DVD and DTS-HD discs will include those soundtracks with the first batch of releases, or if we'll suffer through a first round of releases saddled down with lossy soundtracks. I'm sure you remember those early DVDs that included the audibly inferior 384k DD soundtracks.

  22. #22
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Pioneer answers the challenge!

    http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...584183,00.html

    Actually. Pioneer was first to include room eq with the MCACC feature, almost a year before Yamaha. And they have improved it with this model, upping it to a 9 band EQ & Phase Control bass management system, and new Standing Wave compensation circuitry. They were also the first to have a "single wire" option for multi-channel music. Now they are boldly going where the future leads with XM & HDMI switching included in this, a mid-level product.
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  23. #23
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    I'm starting to think that EQ is not much more helpful them DSP modes which are useless,imo.
    Look & Listen

  24. #24
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    All that sounds good but sitting in my chair, my system sounds better without the EQ.
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  25. #25
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...584183,00.html

    Actually. Pioneer was first to include room eq with the MCACC feature, almost a year before Yamaha. And they have improved it with this model, upping it to a 9 band EQ & Phase Control bass management system, and new Standing Wave compensation circuitry. They were also the first to have a "single wire" option for multi-channel music. Now they are boldly going where the future leads with XM & HDMI switching included in this, a mid-level product.
    If they extend the auto EQ calibration into the bass range, then that would definitely one up the Yamaha YPAO system, which is ineffective below 63 Hz (where a lot of the most problematic room integration issues occur).

    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    I'm starting to think that EQ is not much more helpful them DSP modes which are useless,imo.
    Parametric equalization is very effective and highly useful for addressing room-induced problems in the lower frequencies. If you have any room dimensions smaller than 20', then you will almost certainly have at least one problem bass frequency that requires correction. This room effect can boost the bass by 20+ db at that one frequency, making the bass sound boomy; or you can have a cancellation that makes the bass sound weak. DSP modes do not assist with room integration issues, whereas EQ specifically aims at making the response as close to flat as possible after taking the room effects into account.

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