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  1. #1
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    More Bluray questions

    Just what we needed, more questions about the HD audio formats and Bluray! Anyhow, I will be buying a Bluray player in the near future and want to make sure I get the right one. Right now I have an old receiver that only supports Dolby Digital and DTS and does not have HDMI inputs. It does have 5.1 analog inputs. The two players I am looking at primarily are:

    Sony BDP-S550 ($400)
    7.1 analog out, and it SEEMS that it can decode TrueHD and DTS-Master Audio. Owners manual and Sony are not especially helpful. Can it send these formats out decoded via analog outputs?

    Panasonic BD30K ($300)
    5.1 analog out, does NOT decode TrueHD and DTS-Master they must be sent out as bitstream to the AVR via HDMI. Not sure if it can decode Dolby Plus or DTS-HD formats and send out via analog out. Again Panasonic owners manual and tech support are next to useless.

    My question is if anyone has these players and is using them with the analog outs, and what formats can you use?

    I will be upgrading the AVR shortly with one that can decode all the new formats, so if I have to live for awhile without and can save $100 with the Panny, that is OK. But it would be nice to at least use the Dolby Plus and DTS-HD in the meantime, if the lossless formats are not available to me.

    I know all the players can decode PCM bitstream, but can the send that out via analog outs or is that HDMI only?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    To try and make it simple: The Sony new S550 and the old Panny BD50K (they do the decoding in player with bass management and then send it to the receiver via analog outs) are for those with old receivers that do not have an HDMI input. The new Sony S350 and old Panny BD30K ($279 at Costco) are for those who have new HDMI receivers.

    However, the Panny's are right now being replaced by the new BD35 ($299 list) and new BD55 ($399 list), check at Price Grabber. I think the online price will be down to about $350 soon on the BD55. Everyone will have them in a week or two. Understand that the Panny BD30 and BD50 only have a sub crossover at 100Hz, I think the 35 and 55 are the same. Not sure on the bass management on the Sony's. Go to Panasonic USA and dowload the owner's manual, same with Sony to be sure. You have to look hard but it is there

    BTW, the November issue of Sound and Vision Magazine has a review on the Panny BD55. ("highly recommended"). You might also want to wait for a month or more for the introduction of the highly anticipated OPPO new Blu Ray player which is rumored to go for about $500.

    The S350, BD30 and BD35 send out a signal that is Dobly Digital/DTS only to your older receiver that does not have HDMI inputs. You need the 7.1 analog outs on the Sony S550, BD50 or BD55 to get the full bandwidth for the PCM to an older recevier without HDMI.

    RR6
    Last edited by RoadRunner6; 10-17-2008 at 10:39 AM.

  3. #3
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    Thanks RR. Kind of what I thought.

    I'm going to have a new AVR somewhat soon anyhow, so it really won't matter in the long run. I'd like to have TrueHD and DTS-Master in the short term via analog, but that really limits my options on players.

    I hadn't thought about the bass management issue either. I don't like the idea of the Bluray doing the bass management, although 100 hZ would probably work OK for me.

    The Panny 55 sounds pretty sweet. I guess I just need to decide if I need lossless audio right away, or if I want to save some money and wait until I get the new AVR...

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    Zepman, I'm in the same exact situation. I have an non HDMI Sony ES receiver with great bass management and Para EQ with individaul settings for each channel that I hate to lose. I have a new Panny BD30K right now I bought recently at Costco to check out my new Panny plasma but I don't think I'll keep the BD30.

    My sub is near the rear and 100Hz is too high for my situation. Thus I might get the new Panny BD35K (should be down to $250 soon) and just go with DD/DTS only (and bass managment in the receiver) until I finally get a new HDMI receiver. The OPPO new 83 Blu Ray that should be out in several months sounds very tempting. The did such a great job on their 983 it might be worth the wait and extra money. Otherwise I think the BD35 will be an excellent player.

    RR6

  5. #5
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Yeah, as usual, RR gives great advice.

    Zepman, I went about 9 months just using an optical connection with my PS3(no analog outs), until I finally upgraded to HDMI. Let me tell you that the wait wasn't difficult because I quickly noticed an improvement in sound. Standard DD & DTS have a higher bitrate on BR. 640kbps for DD & 1.5mbps for DTS. No it's not HD audio but it does sound good. Really good. The full bitrate DTS sounds fantastic and you'll find this on most Fox titles.

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    LJ:

    I thought that if you use the Optical and Digital Coax connections you are limited to 2 Ch. PCM and can't even get Dolby Digital or DTS? I know I heard this somewhere, from someone.

    Looking at the owner's manual for the Sony BDP-S550 shows if I use the digital connections (not HDMI) I get "Dolby Digital/LPCM 2ch" or "DTS/LPCM 2ch" from any DTS or Dolby Digital based material (includes lossless, standard, and "plus"). What does this mean?

    All the players I am looking at have 5.1 or 7.1 analog outs, so I should be able to get standard DD and DTS no matter what. I would prefer to use the digital outs so I don't have to rely on the bluray for bass management etc.

    RR: Thanks again. I may just wait for the much awaited price breaks for the holidays and see what is available.

  7. #7
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zepman1
    LJ:

    I thought that if you use the Optical and Digital Coax connections you are limited to 2 Ch. PCM and can't even get Dolby Digital or DTS? I know I heard this somewhere, from someone.

    Looking at the owner's manual for the Sony BDP-S550 shows if I use the digital connections (not HDMI) I get "Dolby Digital/LPCM 2ch" or "DTS/LPCM 2ch" from any DTS or Dolby Digital based material (includes lossless, standard, and "plus"). What does this mean?

    All the players I am looking at have 5.1 or 7.1 analog outs, so I should be able to get standard DD and DTS no matter what. I would prefer to use the digital outs so I don't have to rely on the bluray for bass management etc.

    RR: Thanks again. I may just wait for the much awaited price breaks for the holidays and see what is available.
    Optical cable is only able to carry 2 channels of lossless audio. Standard 5.1 is fine. Lossless BR tracks have a standard core track that will play just fine via optical connection. The bonus is that it's at a higher bitrate. I had no problems playing any BR disc via optical connection. I'm not technical about stuff so I'll let dolby explain it a little better.

    S/PDIF Connection
    If your A/V receiver or processor has neither multichannel analog or digital inputs, but is equipped with 5.1-channel Dolby® Digital decoding and playback, you will still be able to enjoy 5.1-channel performance from next-generation optical players. Included within 7.1-channel multichannel Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD streams is a core 5.1 mix prepared by the content maker that is used when the player is set for 5.1-channel mode. After playback audio signals have been mixed in the player, the PCM signal can be encoded to a Dolby Digital signal and output from the player via S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) to your connected Dolby Digital A/V receiver or processor.

    In many instances, the audio quality you will experience from this connection may be better than what you would experience during playback of standard-definition DVD-Video discs, especially if the native signal on the disc is Dolby TrueHD or high-bit-rate Dolby Digital Plus. This is a direct result of a higher-quality source signal feeding a Dolby Digital encoder running at 640 kbps—higher than the maximum bit rate on DVD-Video.

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    When I first got my BR player I used bitstream via optical, and, as said the sound was better than SD, however, when I got off my duff and finally hooked up the multichannel analog the sound was vastly improved. If you get BR now, use the MC analog connection. You will be able to take advantage of uncompressed PCM, Tru-HD and DTS-MA as long as the unit will decode them internally. If a player had bass management there really wouldn't be a need to rush to a new receiver unless maybe you needed video switching or other updated features.

    A very good place to compare players and see what they can output is: www.bluray.com
    Click on "players", pick your brand and model, then go to..... I believe "specification". It lists everything and tells you if the particular unit will do it, or has it, or what it has.

    LJ pointed out on another thread that Amazon has the Samsung BD-P1500 at $215.00 and includes the new Matrix trilogy. If they haven't improved the bass management from the 1200, it's non-existent, literally.

  9. #9
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    Thanks L. J., check's in the mail.

    Everytime I think I've got this all straight in my head, I read something new and get confused again.

    The way I see it (and please correct me if I am wrong) is:

    Presuming you are like Zepman and I and have a receiver without HDMI input but do have the 6 channel (5.1) or more analog inputs you have several choices with a Blu Ray player.

    First, you can get one of the cheaper models like the Sony S350 or Panny BD35 that do not have the internal converters for outputing the 5.1 or 7.1 channels via analog RCA connectors to the receiver (the S550 and BD55 do have this). So your only option is to send the digital signal from the player to the receiver via S/PDIF output, which is either a digital coax connector or a digital optical connector (Toslink). However, this is only a 2.1 digital signal which is then converted to analog in the receiver and sent to the speakers as either Dolby Digital Plus or DTS (plus or whatever it is called). The good news is that this DD Plus or DTS signal on the Blu Ray disc is actually better quality (higher bitrate) than the original DD or DTS signals that were on the SD DVD's with the same sound track. Another plus is that you still get to use the bass management in the receiver. Another plus is when you do upgrade to an HDMI receiver you have saved by buying the cheaper player which does of course pass the full 5.1 or 7.1 digital signal thru HDMI.

    The second choice for us with the non-HDMI receivers is to buy the higher model such as the Sony S550 or Panny BD35 that are able to convert in-player the digital 5.1 or 7.1 signal to analog and then send it to the receiver via the analog outputs on the player. The advantage is that we now can get the full 5.1 or 7.1 uncompressed audio via the analog inputs on the receiver. The bad news is that now we have to use the bass management in the player. From what I have read these player have limited bass management, especially when it comes to the sub/LFE crossiver frequency. Not sure about the Sony but the Panny BD50 and I think the BD55 also only have one crossover at 100Hz. That is not good for me and anyone who has the sub near the rear and speakers with different bass extension in the L&R, C and surrounds. In my non-HDMI Sony ES receiver I can set each speaker at whatever sub crossover I want individually from 40Hz-200Hz in 10Hz increments, very flexible. I also have a three level built-in parametric EQ with 67 adjustable steps between 99Hz and 10kHz, and more cute stuff. So I think I lose all of this great flexibility when I use the BD player analog outs?

    I understand that the True HD or DTS MA (passed via HDMI) are exactly the same bit for bit in the end after decoding as the PCM signal sent via the MC analog route.

    So for me the choice is go with the cheaper player and use HD Plus and keep my great receiver bass management and other frequency EQ or go with the higher player, get the great new audio level but put up with the very limited bass management and have to buy the 6 channel audio cables. I'm tending to go for the first option.

    Getting another receiver with this flexibility and HDMI might be quite expensive.

    Have I missed anything?

    RR6

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by zepman1
    LJ:

    I thought that if you use the Optical and Digital Coax connections you are limited to 2 Ch. PCM and can't even get Dolby Digital or DTS? I know I heard this somewhere, from someone.

    Looking at the owner's manual for the Sony BDP-S550 shows if I use the digital connections (not HDMI) I get "Dolby Digital/LPCM 2ch" or "DTS/LPCM 2ch" from any DTS or Dolby Digital based material (includes lossless, standard, and "plus"). What does this mean?

    All the players I am looking at have 5.1 or 7.1 analog outs, so I should be able to get standard DD and DTS no matter what. I would prefer to use the digital outs so I don't have to rely on the bluray for bass management etc.

    RR: Thanks again. I may just wait for the much awaited price breaks for the holidays and see what is available.
    Zepman, I think you are somewhat confused here. Dolby Digital and DTS is in fact a 2 channel digital coded signal and is decoded to 5.1 analog in the receiver. This digital signal is sent from the player to the receiver via a digital coax or optical (Toslink). The analog outs on the cheaper player is only for sending SACD or HD-Audio (super quality CD's) signals which are not allowed to be sent via digital signal by agreement of the industry (long story). The cheaper player does not have the decoder in the player to send the PCM 5.1 or 7.1 channel signal via analog. All the Blu Ray discs as a bonus include the regular DD and DTS audio and will play back thru the digital cable, whether coax or optical. So you cannot play back the higher definition audio like Dolby True HD thru the cheaper player to any receiver without HDMI. You only get the higher quality Dolby Digital or DTS.

    The higher cost player has the built in decoder to then send the full PCM signal to the receiver via the analog outputs for people who do not have HDMI. The HDMI digital cable is necessary for the new higher definition audio because the standard digital coax and optical cable do not have sufficient bandwidth to carry the full Dolby True HD and DTS MA bitstream.

    Cheaper player = Sony S350 and Panny BD35
    Higher priced = Sony S550 and Panny BD55

    Hope this helps. I think I got it straight.

    RR6

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    You guys are confusing, me I'm not sure what digital form Dolby D or DTS is in it's original form but for a fact you will get 5.1 or better via optical or coax. From what I understood the signal via optical or coax remains digital until it reaches your receiver's decoder.

    Don't confuse bitstream with PCM. To get your 5.1 or better via Toslink your player must be set internally to "bitstream". If you select "PCM" you would only get 2 channel unless using multichannel analog and provided multichannel PCM track was encoded on the disc.

    I would strongly urge you all to at least try the MC analog outs, I personally thought the overall improvement in sound was well worth any limit in bass management. Also, check you receiver's manual because I understand that some do allow adjustments to an analog input.

    The Dolby and DTS websites are good sources to help weed through some of the different formats and connections.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    Zepman, I think you are somewhat confused here. Dolby Digital and DTS is in fact a 2 channel digital coded signal and is decoded to 5.1 analog in the receiver.
    If you do not mind, let me correct you on this. Dolby digital and Dts are full 5.1 bitstreams before decoding. Before they were encoded, they were 5.1 PCM bitstreams.
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  13. #13
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Mr.P summed it up pretty well.

    If you have plans on getting a new AVR, you could save some $$$ by getting a cheaper player that only bitstreams(no analog outs). If you go this route, you'll still get either DD or DTS via optical connection. Once you do upgrade to HDMI, the HD audio formats will be waiting for you. This is what I did with my PS3.

    Go with a more expensive player that decodes and outputs over MC analog, and your gonna be at the mercy of the player for bass management.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    Zepman, I think you are somewhat confused here.
    Sorry Zepman, I obviously had an attack of the fuzzy brain syndrome. Can't seem to keep my Dolby Surround, Dolby Pro Logic, Dolby Pro Logic II, Dolby Pro Logic IIX, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby Digital True HD (did I miss any) straight. Think I better order some of that Focus Factor. Thank goodness we've got Sir Terrence and others here to keep us old farts straight.

    You should have heard me one time when I tried to explain "anamorphic widescreen" to someone. By the time I got thru, I was more confused than they were!

    RR6

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    Bluray?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    Mr.P summed it up pretty well.

    If you have plans on getting a new AVR, you could save some $$$ by getting a cheaper player that only bitstreams(no analog outs). If you go this route, you'll still get either DD or DTS via optical connection. Once you do upgrade to HDMI, the HD audio formats will be waiting for you. This is what I did with my PS3.

    Go with a more expensive player that decodes and outputs over MC analog, and your gonna be at the mercy of the player for bass management.
    My wal-mart has the sony BDP300 for $198.00 and the BDP350 for $298.00, Would the 300 be ok for now or should i spend another 100 bucks and get the 350, The money is no big deal but if im not going to gain nothing why spend it. Going to be awhile till i can afford a HDMI receiver. My denon 4800 does have the 5.1 inputs but i dont think i will use them because of the weak bass.

  16. #16
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s dog
    My wal-mart has the sony BDP300 for $198.00 and the BDP350 for $298.00, Would the 300 be ok for now or should i spend another 100 bucks and get the 350, The money is no big deal but if im not going to gain nothing why spend it. Going to be awhile till i can afford a HDMI receiver. My denon 4800 does have the 5.1 inputs but i dont think i will use them because of the weak bass.
    The 300 will decode TrueHD & MC PCM now, but you will lose out on DTSMA. And we're talking 5.1 analog out, so you'll have to use the player for bass management.

    The 350 would be a better choice, IMO, if you have plans on getting a new 1.3 AVR eventually, since it can bitstream all the HD audio formats. There may be other options in that price range as well. Samsung 1500 comes to mind for a sweet price at Amazon with the Matrix Trilogy.

    If you do plan on keeping your 4800, you should probably look into something that has MC analog out and full HD audio decoding like the Panny BD50 or Sony S550. Yes you have to rely on the player for bass management, but it would be worth the research to see if the player is capable.

    And let's not forget about the PS3. This would be my first choice for a player if I was gonna get an HDMI capable AVR...Period.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    The 300 will decode TrueHD & MC PCM now, but you will lose out on DTSMA. And we're talking 5.1 analog out, so you'll have to use the player for bass management.

    The 350 would be a better choice, IMO, if you have plans on getting a new 1.3 AVR eventually, since it can bitstream all the HD audio formats. There may be other options in that price range as well. Samsung 1500 comes to mind for a sweet price at Amazon with the Matrix Trilogy.

    If you do plan on keeping your 4800, you should probably look into something that has MC analog out and full HD audio decoding like the Panny BD50 or Sony S550. Yes you have to rely on the player for bass management, but it would be worth the research to see if the player is capable.

    And let's not forget about the PS3. This would be my first choice for a player if I was gonna get an HDMI capable AVR...Period.
    I will be getting a new 1.3 avr down the road so i better give the ps3 or the 350 a good hard look, thanks for the help.

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    I'm an old fart and don't know a PS3 from a PT109. However, some of these reasons below are definitely legitimate and objectionable for me and eliminate my consideration of a PS3. I don't play games. #'s 1 & 4 (since I have a non-HDMI receiver) are important for me and #'s 2 & 3 are maybe. Curious about opinions from you guys that know the PS3 well. For people who don't do games and have an HDMI receiver would you still recommend the PS3 versus the Sony S350 or Panny BD-35?

    .................................................. .................................................. ..............................

    Six reasons you shouldn't use the PS3 as your Blu-ray player
    Posted by Matthew Moskovciak 70 commentsShare E-mail Print (Credit: CNET Networks)OK, before the angry fanboy comments roll in, let's get this out of the way: the PlayStation 3 is the best Blu-ray player on the market right now. It sits at the top of our best Blu-ray players list, we consistently use it as the reference that we judge other Blu-ray players against, and it's the only player on the market right now that supports Blu-ray Profile 2.0 and onboard decoding for both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. And it will always be the only Blu-ray player that streams media, has a browser, and plays PS3 games. Virtually everyone looking to buy a Blu-ray player should go with the PS3 right now.

    However, with that in mind, there are a few legitimate reasons why someone wouldn't want to use a PlayStation 3 as their main Blu-ray player. Let's check them out.

    1. Doesn't work with universal remotes.
    Sony decided not to include an IR receptor on the PlayStation 3, and home theater fans have been complaining ever since. The lack of an IR receptor means that the PlayStation 3 won't work with universal remote controls, so you'll have to use the PS3 controller or the separate PS3 BD remote to control it. It's definitely a pain for anyone who is used to activity-based macros such as "Watch TV" and "Watch Blu-ray" to control their home theater.

    2. It's louder than standalones.
    Although every PS3 seems to be different, the PS3 can occasionally get loud once its fans start spinning. For audiophiles, that can be a pretty big drawback, especially if you start to hear a whirr during every quiet scene in a movie. You'll have better luck keeping the PS3 quiet by keeping it in a well-ventilated area, but standalones are quieter in general and don't mind having other gear stacked on them.

    3. Interface isn't as easy to use.
    This isn't an issue for tech enthusiasts, but Sony's Xross Media Bar (XMB) is packed with options and can be intimidating for neophytes. Although we generally like the XMB for zipping around the PS3's functions, using a standard Blu-ray player where you just need to put in the disc and hit play is definitely a lot easier.

    4. You have an older AV receiver and need multichannel analog outputs.
    If you're using an older receiver and want to use its multichannel analog inputs to get high-resolution soundtracks, you can't do it with the PlayStation 3. You're better off going with a standalone Blu-ray player with onboard Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, like the upcoming Pioneer BDP-51FD and Panasonic DMP-BD50. Of course, if you're OK with standard DVD-style surround sound, you can still get that with the PS3's optical SPDIF output, which is compatible with nearly all modern receivers.

    5. You want to be green.
    The PS3 is great at a lot of things, but conserving power isn't one of them. If you're looking to stay green and limit your power consumption, you'll be much better off using a standalone Blu-ray player. For example, the PS3 sucks up about 170 watts while playing a Blu-ray movie, while the Samsung BD-P1400 only uses about 25 watts. That's a fairly huge difference and can easily wipe out any power savings from using other green products such as the Philips Eco TV. (Check out our guide to TV power consumption for more green tips.)

    6. I need to see my receiver light up and say "Dolby TrueHD."
    Even if you do have a new HDMI-capable receiver, you'll never get the Dolby TrueHD light to turn on with the PS3. That's because although the PS3 can decode both DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD, it can't send those soundtracks in bit stream format and allow the receiver to decode them. Of course, this isn't really a legitimate reason, as you're still getting the same high-resolution audio, but some people just need the comfort of seeing the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio lights on their receiver.

    RR6

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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by s dog
    I will be getting a new 1.3 avr down the road so i better give the ps3 or the 350 a good hard look, thanks for the help.

    I have the BD-300 and its fine if you have an older receiver.
    The 5.1 LPCM is awesome, as is DD HD and DTS HD.
    The 5.1 output is the way to go if you want to make an older receiver last awhile, as I am trying to do.
    One things for sure, ANY Blu player is an entertainment bargain,
    especially if you have 1080p, and the sound is amazing.
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    Thanks to all for the help, I think I have it all straight now! After all this discussion I did some price checking online and it made the decision REAL easy. On pricegrabber, the Sony BDP-S550 can be had for $300 and free shipping. At that price, I think this player blows everything else out of the water. At $400 I had to think twice, but not at $300.

    This player covers me for everything. It decodes all the new audio formats and sends them out via 7.1 analog outputs, so that covers me for now with my old receiver. Bass management may or may not be an issue as I prefer a low crossover with my full range towers, but I am pretty flexible. And if it is really that annoying, I can hookup the optical instead and get 5.1 DD and DTS. Eventually in a few months I'll pick up a new AVR and it will all be a moot point.

    Hopefully I'll be able to check it out by the end of the week. Only 720P on my display, but I am guessing the pic will still be better than HD from Time Warner, and I get lossless audio.

    FYI while the price mentioned on the Samsung P1500 is a good one (including Matrix Trilogy), that player does not have analog outs and cannot read DVD+R discs for those that care. Doesn't matter for those with new AVR's I guess. Hard to beat that price if you can use the HDMI connection.

  21. #21
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I have the BD-300 and its fine if you have an older receiver.
    The 5.1 LPCM is awesome, as is DD HD and DTS HD.
    The 5.1 output is the way to go if you want to make an older receiver last awhile, as I am trying to do.
    One things for sure, ANY Blu player is an entertainment bargain,
    especially if you have 1080p, and the sound is amazing.
    Isn't the 300 lacking some HD decoding? There's options under $300 that offer full decoding & analog outs.

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    I think actually the S300 can decode DD Plus and DTS-HD internally, which would be "HD" audio I guess. It cannot decode lossless audio, DTS-Master or DD True HD, those would have to go out via HDMI and be decoded by the AVR.

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    The s300 will decode Tru-HD and send it via PCM but will not bitstream.

    http://www.blu-ray.com/players/playe...=12&show=specs

  24. #24
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    The s300 will decode Tru-HD and send it via PCM but will not bitstream.

    http://www.blu-ray.com/players/playe...=12&show=specs
    No DTSMA...Period. But I guess if the price is right...One could suffer with full bitrate 1.5mbps DTS tracks

    And what's up with the DTS HD. I'm thinking only a few titles support this.

  25. #25
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    LJ, I noticed that too, it seemed like on DVD DTS had a bit better usage, thus far, I have seen very few BR movies that offer DTS-MA. It looks like Tru-HD has the majority and earlier movies had uncompressed. I wish they would have just stayed more with uncompressed but i guess the industry swung back to the decoding in the receiver and bitstream, as well wanted to conserve space on the disc. If I was buying a new machine though I would want DTS-MA for when it was needed.

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