MAG Innovision 32" LCD TV

[edtyct]

I've seen Seinfeld upconverted to pseudo-HD (on Fox's HD station) that looked pretty good; I'm betting that the Seinfeld DVD, however, was probably to blame, especially since you saw a similar artifact on another TV, though the MAG's scaling might have exacerbated any flaws inherent in the transfer. I assume that you tried well-mastered, colorful, and contrast-dynamic DVDs with the panel, and they looked okay. DVDs produced at a high standard would be a better, or at least a telling, test. The centering issue is a drag. I'd be surprised if it couldn't be adjusted fairly easily. DId you happen to notice whether MAGs in general suffered from it? You might have been able to get one that's properly aligned. Nonetheless, the warranty-customer service element might have been a deal breaker with the MAG, anyway.

The 30" Sony XBR CRT is a winner, and it's a 16:9. The Sharp Aquos panels are really . . . sharp. The extra money in this case would guarantee you decent performance in all areas. Thanks for the rundown on some of the available no-frills units. You probably don't need confirmation from anyone, but from this distance, you seem to have done the right thing.

Ed

[flash75]

Hey guys thanks for your replies. EG, to answer your questions. I received absolutely no hassles. Both Best Buy and Costco have fantastic refund policies. No restock fees. Sure it's a bit of a pain to take home and bring back, but when i'm spending a fair amount of money I want to be happy and it's worth it. I have a small coupe and only the Daytek fit full box in the back seat. The others I took out of the box and put in my trunk. Usually I left the box there. The tv's are only about 45 lbs so it's much better than the few 27" tubes I had to haul up to my apartment. I was going to buy an Acer today at The Bay but I noticed the display model had a bit of an overscan issue at the top of the screen (about 1/4 inch) which for me is a big deal cuz i'm picky! Oh yeah the DVD 22 and 31 are essentially the same except the 31 plays dvd audio.

Ed, I did some research and found out that all dvd's aren't the chrystal clear miracle picture I thought they were! DVD's like Lock, Stock and 2 smokin barrels is INTENTIALLY grainy and i read some other reviews of DVD picture quality of ones i have from www.ign.com and they fit their descriptions properly. Seinfeld, like many people say is grainy because of the transfer or film they used. Surely, on the fox HD it would look better - and maybe when they release some of the later seasons on dvd they will look better too. Afterall, we're talking early ninties here. So overall, -maybe- the mag made things a bit worse, or maybe that's just the way it is on dvd. i bet a cartoon animated dvd would be CHRYSTAL!

At this point, if it wasn't for the geometry of the MAG i'd be buying it. I will check out some more on the floor at various stores and compare...maybe mine was just bad. I have emailed their sales (since it's the only email i could find on the proview website) and hopefully i can get in contact with their tech support so i can manually enter the service menu and adjust. I should hope that the service menu's are possible like my old sony wega? if i can tweek and adjust the overscan then i will go back and buy the MAG as for he money it's the best LCD out there i think.

So if i go all out what do you think? Sharp or Samsung?

PS. Now i've heard something about dvd players that UPconvert to better quality? is this worth it? should i sell my HK DVD 22 and buy a player that has upconvert capability. will the increase in quality be very noticeable?

Oh yeah, another thing I just remembered. the MAG is HDMI and only has one set of components. Both the Daytek (which I hated) and Acer have DVI and 2 sets of components. I think the viewsonic had 2 as well.

[EdwardGein]

I'd definately hold onto your DVD player and not get anything else until you actually witness that an "upconvertor" will actually produce results & that the sound quality is as good as your Harmon Kardon. Everyone I've encountered at high end stores have all 100% told me that buying an upconvertor player at this time is a total waste of money and they don't do crap. On my HK 31 player, the picture is perfect on both of my HD TV's & I can't imagine it getting any better. As I said the sound is top notch. What I recommend you do however, is "buy" a few upconvertors once you have an HD TV set (I'm not clear if you actually have one) and then compare the picture (& sound to your Harmon Kardon). If you think its an improvement, yeah, definately buy, but based on what I've heard, I doubt you will. Whatever you do, don't sell anything before you know you have a decent replacement on hand that you're keeping. I lucked out in that I had a 100 watt Acoustic Research 108PS Sub that was perfectly good but not great & I bought an Orb Audio Super Eight 200-400 Watt Sub for $400 that was so much better (I had one for my living room set) but when I hooked this up in my bedroom it was way too loud, boomy, etc., because of the acoustics, walls, enclosed structure, and so I sold it at an $80 loss and was lucky I still had my Acoustic Research Sub on hand which I'm settling on that permanently- I live in an apartment & its decent enough but not overpowering & I don't get complaints.
Please let this board know when you've found an HD LCD that's a keeper as I may eventually follow your lead. I have a Samsung 30" HD widescreen CRT for my bedroom that's perfectly good but not great but was about the best I could buy at the time of a "Name" brand for $700 at CircuitCity. The Samsung works perfectly but I'd still like to get an LCD if I could afford it & sell my Samsung for $500 (which I doubt).
Oh, you may want to try the following, which I'm convinced will improve your picture & sound & will cost you around $30 & if you don't think its an improvement, resell them on Ebay & recoup 85% of your cost: 1. A glass fiber optics cable for your TV that will improve the sound (I connect my DVR to my receiver) that's about $20 from a regular seller on Ebay & a "regular" optic cable this one guy sells on Ebay for around $10 that produces better CD & DVD sound then any other cable I used (I don't use the glass optic cable for DVD player because its too powerful).
You should start your own consumer reports magazine based on your returns! You rule!

[edtyct]

Flash, right. Transfers vary like crazy, and transfer of a TV program from the 90s is a likely candidate for less than a perfect picture. Recent animated DVDs like the Incredibles, one of the Shreks, or Finding Nemo might be a good test for the Mag. They were all mastered, and transfered, impeccably, and they are all bright movies that would play right into the hands of an LCD panel. I would lean toward a Sharp if I were to spend the requisite money. Sharp has concentrated on this technology with great success for a long time, but I certainly wouldn't try to dissuade you from a Samsung if you got a deal, and it moved you.

I disagree, at least a little bit, with EdGein's position on upconverters. First of all, an LCD panel, or any other microdisplay, will upconvert every DVD that it plays to its own native resolution. Some do a better job than others. A good upconverting DVD player can relieve a TV of a job that it may not do so well. A signal coming from a DVD player that already matches, or nearly matches, the panel's native resolution, can be a cleaner alternative to a TV's own scaler. Another benefit of a digital connection between a DVD player and a microdisplay, whether upconverting or not, is the avoidance of the D/A conversion that occurs via component, which can soften the picture to some undetermined extent. (This strategy does not apply to CRTs because they are essentially analog TVs, even if HD capable; no matter how the signal arrives, it will eventually end up analog.) The combination of DVI or HDMI and upconversion can enhance fine detail, both subjectively and in test screens. It's not just hype. However, as EdGein implies, it is not an automatic improvement. Implementation has a role as well. If you like your Harmon Kardon, swapping it for a player with a digital output may well be a waste of time, effort, and cash. If, however, you want to squeeze the last bit of detail and sharpness from your LCD panel when you get it, you could certainly give it DVI or HDMI a try. But not every properly outfitted DVD player will have the same success. Some suffer from macroblocking via their digital outputs; some lose detail in dark images; and some show the chroma upsampling error (CUE). It might take some research to get the right one. The Sony NS975V, for one, avoids these problems. But others may as well.

Ed

[EdwardGein]

Both of my HD TV's are CRT. Are you basically saying that on these type of TV's with an upconvertor you won't see an improvement but with an LCD you might, but there's no guarantee? When they come up with HD DVD players that are 1081, will you need a specially recorded DVD to see it in 1081 DVD or will a normal one perform that well? Will an HD DVD player perform that well then on a CRT HD TV?

I gots to know. Thanks

[edtyct]

Yeah, you're right, at least so far as probability is concerned. Since CRTs are analog-based, they don't get the benefit of an all-digital signal path, but they don't need it as much either. Unlike microdisplays, CRTs don't have to upconvert all resolutions to their native format just to display them; their scan rate is dependent on the source, not the sink (except for 720p, which CRT largely converts to 1080i, since it's too expensive for most CRTs to include). However, that doesn't mean that DVI or HDMI won't look very good on a CRT, perhaps even better than a particular TV's component output. You just can't tell until you try it.

Microdisplays are in a slightly similar situation at the outset; you can't tell how good their digital inputs are until you try them. But the decks are stacked in their favor, assuming that the digital platform is working correctly. Nonetheless, the intial rationale for digital output wasn't picture quality but copy protection, and, in that regard, CRTs are as dependent on digital delivery as microdisplays are.

I'm not quite sure what your second question is, but if I get it, HD DVD and Blu-Ray at 1080i, 1080p, or 720p is a completely different technology than what we have now, requiring proprietary disks and players. No regular DVD, upconverted either by a DVD player or a microdisplay's own scaler, is capable of true HD. It's just scaled 480 no matter how you slice it.

Ed

[EdwardGein]

So basically you're saying & what some guy who collects commercial DVD's I think said a while ago, is if they put an HD DVD player on the market, you'll have to buy special HD DVD's to watch them in this format & if you collect DVD's, this will be somewhat like replacing your record collection with CD's!

Thank God, I rarely buy DVD's & just rent them. The last DVD I bought (and did so because for some strange reason it wasn't available on Netflix or in any local rental store was the 3 DVD "This Is Your Life" 3 DVD Collection which I'm actually keeping as its a nice package with a large booklet & it is one of the few DVD's I'll rewatch on occassion- to see Laurel & Hardy, Abbot & Costello, Boris Karloff, Bobby Darin & other people like that alive again in their "Non Showbiz" real life, is priceless! The Darin one is especially a treat seeing as at the time he didn't know his sister was really his mother & seeing them together with her acting as his sister just barely containing herself & him thinking he's her sister! Sorry for digressing.

To me on my CRT HD TV's, the DVD picture (& sound) on my Harmon Kardon 31 is perfect & I can't imagine anything better.

[flash75]

Guys, thanks for your replies. Man, am I ever getting tired of the speed of technology! I'll definitely be keeping my HK DVD 22 since I just recently bought it. I think I might stay a little "behind" in technology as I know the new generation of HD dvd's are going to cost a premium. Lately i've been picking up dvd's for pretty cheap $15 cdn and sometimes $10 cdn (what for though I don't even have a tv now haahah). So all i need is an HD ready tv which has proven no easy task. I swear i should be writing for cnet! Now, for my latest review:

ACER 32" LCD bought from the Bay for $1450 cdn. I was hoping this would be my last purchase, but after an hour or 2 of tinkering, I packaged it up for return tomorrow. The geometry of the tv is perfect and the brightness sufficient. What really impressed me was that its scaling blew the MAG out of the water. Where the MAG was grainy, the Acer was acceptable. It wasn't perfect and chrystal but it was much improved over the MAG. The MAG however was brighter and showed colours nicer. What I didn't like about the Acer was that the black background showed too much light coming through, much like the Viewsonic I previewed. The MAG destroyed the Acer in this category. And most annoyingly was a fan noise that was audible at a low volume level and even more so was a high pitch tone coming from the back...enough to drive me crazy. SO overall I decided that I will NEVER purchase a non-brand name anything ever again. However I would buy an Acer computer/laptop.

It has been a pretty good learning experience the last week or so. So now I either have to shell out about $3000 for a Sharp or Samsung, OR decide to go the 26" route which I really don't want to. I looked at crt's once again but their inability to show straight lines turned me off. And for some reason I noticed some with flicker (although it might of had composite inputs). The size/weight thing turns me off as well. So i'll have to re-think my options. Since Costco has such a great refund policy (could go 6 months full money back no prob) I might go back and get the Viewsonic as a temp. solution until the prices fall at xmas and then get my dream 32" lcd.

So my advice is ONLY buy Sharp or Samsung. I would say Sony for LCD possibly because they do look good. One sales person said that Sony uses Samsung LCD screens? But I did see a 32" sony on display that had weird looking vertical lines in a black background.

The Seinfeld dvd's look terrible. What a pain. Hopefully they will only get better when newer seasons are released. Fortunately they make me laugh so hard that I don't pay much attention. I only watch them in their original 4:3 aspect.

EdwardGein, can you provide the ebay link for this audio cable you speak of? I was planning on using just a regular 75 ohm coaxial since I heard they sound a little better than fibre and that it either works or doesn't. But i'd be willing to experiment.

Anyways, i'll keep everyone posted of what i buy next! Probably a Sharp and Samsung review coming up! I had a couple of 24 and 27" crts before (sony and panny) but the major flicker and scan lines drove me crazy at 6.5-7 feet. I LOVE the look of the lcd picture however with the budget lcd's i have purchased I have not been amazed at dvd picture quality.