Inoperative Tone Controls in Pioneer A/V Receivers

[gsanders]

This is a general comment that apparently applies to ALL Pioneer A/V Surround Sound Receivers, and may apply to other manufacturers as well.

Pioneer advertises adjustable Tone controls, but they are inoperative in all surround-sound modes. The tone controls are only adjustable in the Stereo/Direct modes.

I called Pioneer about this and talked to several people who claimed that this was proper operation. They said, "Why would you want tone controls in a surround mode?" Rather than explain that the question was an idiot one, I did explain about the common need to adjust tone to compensate for speaker/room characteristics. I also explained that both their advertising and manuals indicate that the tone controls are generally operative. Their comment was that many people only used these receivers in the stereo mode without surround sound, and they could use the tone controls. I replied that this was rubbish.

I am really incredulous at their attitude and thinking. But I do want to warn users of these type of receivers that the only way they can control the tonal balance is to put a graphic equalizer in the tape monitor path of the receiver and keep this path active all of the time. I believe that manufacturers that offer this kind of tone control feature are dealing in false advertising, and providing a dis-service to their customers.

[hershon]

Can you clarify your comments. On the surface I am taking this to read you can not adjust your bass & treble controls which doesn't make any sense so please clarify.

[gsanders]

My whole point was that it DOESN'T make sense, I'm glad you agree.
There is a pushbutton for entering the mode for adjusting bass and treble, you then use the jog control to set the + or - dB setting, for Bass or Treble. But it will not go into this mode with any of the Surround modes active, you must go into the 2-channel Stereo or Direct mode to be able to adjust Bass and Treble. The settings have NO effect on the sound in the Surround modes (there is no Bass/Treble adjustment). This was confirmed by Pioneeer Technical Support. All Pioneer receivers work this way, as (they say) do other brands. I say that this is ridiculous and an incorrect function.
If you don't believe this and you have a Pioneer A/V receiver, go into the Stereo/Direct mode and set the Bass up all of the way and the Treble down all of the way. This will make for a bassy and muffled sound; then switch to any Surround mode, the sound will be bright and normal.

[gsanders]

I'm the original poster: I just wanted to add that Pioneer's company line on this issue is that "the Surround Sound Processor in their receivers automatically takes care of Tone control". This is so absurd! There is no way their surround sound processor can know the tonal characteristics of my speakers, or my listening room, or my own desired tastes! Some people like a "brighter" sound, or a "strong Bass you can really feel", but others like a so-called "natural" concert-hall sound; this is the old LA JBL/EV vs. the New England AR/KLH battle, where everyone was justified in their own preferences of sound. Hifi buffs from the 60's and 70's will remember these fun arguements. The fact is that Tone controls exist for very good reasons, and manufacturers have no right to advertise them and not have them work in the modes that most users will be using. It is false advertising, and poor marketing/engineering.

[hershon]

I'm not calling you insane but the concept of you not being able to adjust bass & treble controls sounds nuts. On my Denon Receiver, as was my previous JVC receiver, there is a tone control button where I can increase/decrease the bass or treble levels in increments of 1.
I listen to CD's on 5 channel all natural sound and DVD's usually on 5.1 dolby digital surround sound which I prefer, I'm in the minority here, over DTS which I can also get. On each of those receivers, whatever the settings are set on, in my case both the treble and bass are + 2, the sound on any of these modes with be plus 2 bass and treble. Either the people you spoke to at Pioneer misunderstood you or else their product is totally messed up which ultimately would cost them sales losses in the long run. I'm shocked that these things happen with name companies but they do. For instance, I bought an HP Scanner that scans horribly and makes noises too & the software is awful. Apparently other people experienced the same thing with that model. I'd recommend you do one or all of the following: 1. Go to the store you bought this from and explain this to them again and if the guy still gives you that answer back, exchange your receiver if you can & get a Denon or another decent brand., 2.Just list it on Ebay, don't say anything about the tone controls at all, and just say you got another one as a present and it works perfect which is why you're listing it and it comes with a warranty. You won't take that much of a loss.

[gsanders]

The very fact that you made this comment shows how incredible this problem is --- "I'm not calling you insane but the concept of you not being able to adjust bass & treble controls sounds nuts."- previous poster.
I probably would react the same way if I had not had the experience with my own receiver and with the support people at Pioneer!
I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with 2 different people, and they did understand my problem with the receiver.
Anyone with a Pioneer A/V--- please try adusting the tone controls, and let me know what you find. You won't be able to adjust them in the Surround modes, but go into the Stereo/Direct mode and take the Bass to +6 and the Treble to -6, listen to the sound, it will be dull and bassy, then go to any Surround Mode, the sound will be normal, proving that the tone controls are disabled in the Surround/Prologic modes. It is just crazy that they designed their receivers like this. They refused to react to my logic of why the tone controls should work in all modes, so it is obvious that they are "coached" to respond as they did to this question, it must come up pretty often.

[shokhead]

My whole point was that it DOESN'T make sense, I'm glad you agree.
There is a pushbutton for entering the mode for adjusting bass and treble, you then use the jog control to set the + or - dB setting, for Bass or Treble. But it will not go into this mode with any of the Surround modes active, you must go into the 2-channel Stereo or Direct mode to be able to adjust Bass and Treble. The settings have NO effect on the sound in the Surround modes (there is no Bass/Treble adjustment). This was confirmed by Pioneeer Technical Support. All Pioneer receivers work this way, as (they say) do other brands. I say that this is ridiculous and an incorrect function.
If you don't believe this and you have a Pioneer A/V receiver, go into the Stereo/Direct mode and set the Bass up all of the way and the Treble down all of the way. This will make for a bassy and muffled sound; then switch to any Surround mode, the sound will be bright and normal.

Adjust them before you go to those modes.

[gsanders]

If you read my previous comments carefully, you would realize that I had said that does not do any good. Yes, you can adjust the Tone controls in the Stereo/Direct modes, but when you go the the Surround Modes, the changes are not made to the sound because the Tone controls are "inoperative" in the Surround modes. This can be proven by grossly misadjusting the tone controls (i.e. Bass +6dB and Treble -6dB) in the Stereo mode, then switching to the any of the Surround modes, the character of the sound does not change as it did in the Stereo mode when the Tone controls were set.
The tone controls are not in the signal path in any Surround modes, or if they are, they are reset to Bass 0dB and Treble 0dB for the Surround modes. When you go back to the Stereo/Direct modes, they have whatever settings you gave them, and the sound quality of the receiver reflects those settings.

[JeffKnob]

I have a Pioneer receiver in my bedroom. It works exactly as you have described. The tone controls only work in stereo and don't work at all in surround sound. I agree that the sound is dull in stereo even when you can make the adjustments. My guess is unfortunately that is just the way Pioneer made it.

[shokhead]

Then i guess you have a crap pioneer. Better go get a denon.