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  1. #1
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    Help! BluRay video very choppy

    Now that my HT setup is finally done I have trouble with BluRay video. Before we get in details, this is how everything is setup.

    BluRay player HDMI --> 4 ft HDMI cable with ferrite core --> Wall Plate for Video --> Back of this wall plate --> a swivel type Male-to-Female HDMI adapter (This is done for flexibility since HDMI cable behind the wall was too thick to bend easily to connect) -->25 ft HDMI Cable --> Male-to-Male HDMI connector some where in ceiling --> Another 25 ft HDMI Cable --> Back of a Wall plate --> 6 Ft cable (no ferrite core) --> Projector.

    Yeah I know, too damn many connection.

    Audio from BluRay going to Receiver via 5.1 channnel analog.

    So what happens now is when I turn on the BluRay, I have picture that is jumpy. In fact some times I get pictures for a split second to few seconds then it goes away. I some time swap the Blue cable above and finally I do get consistent picture. Audio is fine.
    Just wondering why is this happening? In the above setup if I connect my XBOX instead of BluRay, I have no issue at all.

    I have three different cables that I tried on different TV with my cable box and tested them to be working ok.

    What I am yet to try is taking my BluRay to a different TV and test it. Also I am going to try Component instead of HDMI.

    Could the blu-ray cable with Ferrite core be an issue?

    But in the mean time any help/suggestions would be really appreciated.
    Last edited by amarmistry; 12-29-2010 at 01:47 PM.
    Home Theater:
    • Harman Kardon AVR 335
      (Supplied 7.1 Channel speaker with this receiver as HTiB)
    • Panasonic DMP-BD85K Blu Ray
    • XBOX 360 Slim
    • Belkin Pure AV PF-30 Power Conditioner
    • Epson Home Cinema 8700 UB Projector
    • Logitech Harmony 880

    http://picasaweb.google.com/arm.amar/HomeTheater#

    Family Room:
    • Panasonic 42" 42PX600U Plasma
    • Harman Kardon DVD31
    • Motorola Cable Box

  2. #2
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Sounds like the cable. ESPECIALLY if you swap it out and the player works.
    25 ft is a rather long cable run, you might want to look into changing that, if you can.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
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  3. #3
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    Actually it is more than 50 ft run between the player and projector. I'd say about 55 feet. It is actually a very thick cable. But then again, XBOX has no issue, its only BluRay player. Could it be the HDMI port on back of BluRay gone bad?
    I am thinking of adding a signal booster somewhere in the middle. Hope that might help.
    Home Theater:
    • Harman Kardon AVR 335
      (Supplied 7.1 Channel speaker with this receiver as HTiB)
    • Panasonic DMP-BD85K Blu Ray
    • XBOX 360 Slim
    • Belkin Pure AV PF-30 Power Conditioner
    • Epson Home Cinema 8700 UB Projector
    • Logitech Harmony 880

    http://picasaweb.google.com/arm.amar/HomeTheater#

    Family Room:
    • Panasonic 42" 42PX600U Plasma
    • Harman Kardon DVD31
    • Motorola Cable Box

  4. #4
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amarmistry
    Actually it is more than 50 ft run between the player and projector. I'd say about 55 feet. It is actually a very thick cable. But then again, XBOX has no issue, its only BluRay player. Could it be the HDMI port on back of BluRay gone bad?
    I am thinking of adding a signal booster somewhere in the middle. Hope that might help.
    A signal booster will definitely cure the problem. 55ft with out HDMI signal booster is a recipe for big trouble with 1080p signal stability. The XBOX does not put out HDMI signals with the bandwidth that Bluray does, so it would not have a problem with the long run.
    Sir Terrence

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    The XBOX does not put out HDMI signals with the bandwidth that Bluray does, so it would not have a problem with the long run.
    Actually, it does. The Xbox 360 can output 1080p, and it usually does this at 60Hz, whereas a lot of blu-ray discs send a 24 Hz picture. (Is the Xbox actually set to 1080p?) Anyway, it probably comes down to the signaling device on the PCB of the blu-ray player vs. the one in the Xbox.

    As has already been mentioned, a signal booster (aka repeater) like this one, or perhaps this one will almost certainly solve your problem. I'd put it in the ceiling- replace that male-to-male. NOTE: I have no affiliation with Monoprice, I just like their stuff (especially the prices). I also have not tried either of those repeaters.

    If the first cable in the run (the one with the ferrite core you mention) is really flimsy, tiny wire (28 AWG or worse), you might be causing the problems through excess attenuation, but it's unlikely. The ferrite core itself isn't going to be the issue, either. For extra insurance, you can run lower gauge (thicker) HDMI cables through your walls, Monoprice sells them - take a look at the 22 AWG ones on this page. (22 AWG is 2x the diameter and therefore 4x the cross-sectional area of 28 AWG).

  6. #6
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilspoons
    Actually, it does. The Xbox 360 can output 1080p, and it usually does this at 60Hz, whereas a lot of blu-ray discs send a 24 Hz picture. (Is the Xbox actually set to 1080p?) Anyway, it probably comes down to the signaling device on the PCB of the blu-ray player vs. the one in the Xbox.

    As has already been mentioned, a signal booster (aka repeater) like this one, or perhaps this one will almost certainly solve your problem. I'd put it in the ceiling- replace that male-to-male. NOTE: I have no affiliation with Monoprice, I just like their stuff (especially the prices). I also have not tried either of those repeaters.

    If the first cable in the run (the one with the ferrite core you mention) is really flimsy, tiny wire (28 AWG or worse), you might be causing the problems through excess attenuation, but it's unlikely. The ferrite core itself isn't going to be the issue, either. For extra insurance, you can run lower gauge (thicker) HDMI cables through your walls, Monoprice sells them - take a look at the 22 AWG ones on this page. (22 AWG is 2x the diameter and therefore 4x the cross-sectional area of 28 AWG).
    Exactly what does the XBOX do at 1080p? Without a Bluray player, what kind of video does XBOX output natively?(not unconverted video or games, but native 1080p video signals that require a large pipeline for output). Since HD DVD is dead, I thought that was the extent of 1080p video on the XBOX(not games).
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  7. #7
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    The Xbox outputs a 1920x1080 pixel image all the time if that's what you've set it to in your menus. You can play video over the network or through Microsoft Mediahome at 1080p resolution, all the main menus are rendered at 1080p, etc.

    Most games don't actually render at 1920x1080 because the CPU and GPU are nowhere near powerful enough, but the game rendering surface (at, say, 960x540, I think that's Halo 3) is scaled up to 1080p. Then the game will stick your HUD and text and menus on top of this if they're 2D elements. Sometimes games like low-tech Arcade and Indie games render natively at 1080p because the system is powerful enough to do so.

    It's actually quite complicated for some games, as they'll do lower-resolution passes of certain effects, medium-res pass for the main geometry, a high-res pass for certain lighting effects to make it look better, and then composite it all together. Alan Wake, for example, does this sort of thing.

    Modern Warfare 1 and 2 render at something by 600 (1024x600 probably) but again I'm pretty sure the text is drawn on top at whatever final resolution you have selected...

    The Playstation 3 does exactly the same thing.

    A huge benefit is the TV does not have to switch display modes when you start a game and the developer has finer-grained control over playability vs. detail. I'm actually surprised that no one's started doing this in a big way on PC games, resolution switching is a pain in the ass and half the time alt-tabbing out of a game will cause some sort of crash and 30 seconds of monitor flickering. NVidia soooorta does this already if you choose "use NVIDIA scaling" (with or without fixed aspect ratio) on a flat panel monitor; instead of sending resolution X to your Y resolution flat panel, it always sends Y to your monitor, renders at resolution X, and then uses its so-fast-it's-free built-in video scaler to bring X to Y.
    Last edited by evilspoons; 12-29-2010 at 10:33 PM.

  8. #8
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    Thank you everyone again for input on this. I am going to order the HDMI signal booster from monoprice but they are short supplied. May be lack of signal booster was the reason my HDMI switcher (monoprice) did not work. I decided to get that since my receiver is non-HDMI and I wanted a way where I don't have to physically swap the cable for BluRay to wall plate or XBOX to wall plate. I thought the unit was bad and was going to return it. Maybe I will hold on to it for now and try it again once I get the HDMI signal booster.

    @evilspoons: 90% of my accessories are from Monoprice. They make fine stuff... And yes the first cable in the series with ferrite core IS a 28AWG. May be I will replace it with 24AWG CL2 Flat type.

    Will there be any compatibility issues between cable and/or bluray/projector and/or the HDMI switch (http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2) ?
    Home Theater:
    • Harman Kardon AVR 335
      (Supplied 7.1 Channel speaker with this receiver as HTiB)
    • Panasonic DMP-BD85K Blu Ray
    • XBOX 360 Slim
    • Belkin Pure AV PF-30 Power Conditioner
    • Epson Home Cinema 8700 UB Projector
    • Logitech Harmony 880

    http://picasaweb.google.com/arm.amar/HomeTheater#

    Family Room:
    • Panasonic 42" 42PX600U Plasma
    • Harman Kardon DVD31
    • Motorola Cable Box

  9. #9
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    Although specifically not related to a blue ray problem, I was fooling with longer USB cables between my computer and some outside devices. IN particular, one outside device had its own cable attached about 3 feet long. Everything worked fine on that cable. With a 15 foot usb cable added to it, I began to get video dropouts since it was carrying video info. At 30 feet, I had no video signal at all. I even hooked up a separate 6 ft. extension USB cable of a different make and the video dropouts appeared. So this shows that there is a certain amount of signal that can be carried by long cables. I do not think there are amplifiers on the market for what I was doing but that was the first thing that came to my mind.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelsci
    With a 15 foot usb cable added to it, I began to get video dropouts since it was carrying video info. At 30 feet, I had no video signal at all
    Not surprising at all. The official USB specification says 5 meters is maximum. From http://www.usb.org/about/faq/ans5:

    Q1: How long of a cable can I use to connect my device?
    A1: In practice, the USB specification limits the length of a cable between full speed devices to 5 meters (a little under 16 feet 5 inches). For a low speed device the limit is 3 meters (9 feet 10 inches).

    Q2: Why can't I use a cable longer than 3 or 5m?
    A2: USB's electrical design doesn't allow it. When USB was designed, a decision was made to handle the propagation of electromagnetic fields on USB data lines in a way that limited the maximum length of a USB cable to something in the range of 4m. This method has a number of advantages and, since USB is intended for a desktop environment, the range limitations were deemed acceptable. If you're familiar with transmission line theory and want more detail on this topic, take a look at the USB signals section of the developers FAQ.

    Q3: How far away from a PC can I put a USB device?
    A3: With the maximum of 5 hubs connected with 5m cables and a 5m cable going to your full speed device, this will give you 30m of cable (see section 7.1.19 for details). With a low speed device, you will be able to get a range up to 27m, depending on how long the device's cable is. With a straightforward cable route, you will probably be able to reach out 25m or so from the PC.

    Q4: I need to put a USB device X distance from my PC. What do I do?
    A4: If X is less than 25m or so (see previous question), buy a bunch of hubs and connect them serially with 5m cables. If you need to go farther than that, put another PC, or maybe a laptop, out where you need the device to be and network it with the first PC using something that's intended to be a long-range connection, such as Ethernet or RS-485. If you need to use nothing but USB, consider using USB based Ethernet adapters to hook the PCs together.
    And from http://www.usb.org/developers/usbfaq#cab1:

    1. Why are there cable length limits, and what are they?

    A: The cable length was limited by a cable delay spec of 26ns to allow for reflections to settle at the transmitter before the next bit was sent. Since USB uses source termination and voltage-mode drivers, this has to be the case, otherwise reflections can pile up and blow the driver. This does not mean the line voltage has fully settled by the end of the bit; with worst-case undertermination. However, there's been enough damping by the end of the bit that the reflection amplitude has been reduced to manageable levels. The low speed cable length was limited to 18ns to keep transmission line effects from impacting low speed signals.

  11. #11
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    What I do not understand is if the length of cable is an issue, I should consistently get image problems. Why is it that after trying couple of different cables, I just get lucky and from that point onwards pictures runs just fine.
    This might sound stupid but does it work like the water in the pipe, once there is enough consistent flow from the source, it'd reach at the end seamlessly?
    Home Theater:
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    • Panasonic DMP-BD85K Blu Ray
    • XBOX 360 Slim
    • Belkin Pure AV PF-30 Power Conditioner
    • Epson Home Cinema 8700 UB Projector
    • Logitech Harmony 880

    http://picasaweb.google.com/arm.amar/HomeTheater#

    Family Room:
    • Panasonic 42" 42PX600U Plasma
    • Harman Kardon DVD31
    • Motorola Cable Box

  12. #12
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    There are more problems from cable length than just overall timing like in the USB example above. Different bits of wire have different impedances, maybe skewing your data clock a little bit as you go... finally after 50+ feet the clock is wankered enough that it doesn't lock on properly. Other possibilities include pure signal loss (voltage drop too high from high impedance wire), different levels of shielding picking up noise as you go, crummy connectors causing impedance AND shielding issues, blah blah...

  13. #13
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    After hearing about your "problem" I think you should rename your thread.
    How about"through some miracle I get some kind of a picture"?
    Number one rule is the shortest cable run possible, moving equipment if you have
    to, with only one continuous length per connection .
    I HAVE SPARES in my odd and end box whose only crime is being a tad long.
    RUNNING 25" lengths are you really surprised that your picture stinks?
    A lot of people stretch out their cables in order to accommodate putting their gear in
    odd places. Sometimes this can't be helped, but there is a reason that you see peeps
    sticking all of their gear in one general area.
    No reason to over-analyze or over-think this, or try to make a unworkable setup "work".
    Figure out a way to run shorter cable runs instead of trying to figure out a way to
    make the unworkable work.
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  14. #14
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    through some miracle I get some kind of a picture

    LOL.... Believe it or not, it does seem true.

    I popped in Iron Man 2 BluRay disk today, initially the picture kept disappearing and then finally after about 2 mins or so, everything began flowing smoothly. Picture looked perfect and till end of the movie, no issues at all.

    Yes I actively thought of shorter cables but just was not possible. My biggest issue was not being able to mount projector from the ceiling, which added about 15 extra feet because I needed to run extra length of HDMI cable.

    I have ordered the HDMI repeater/signal booster (non-powered one) and I am hoping it'd work once I add it in the series of cables/adapters.....
    Home Theater:
    • Harman Kardon AVR 335
      (Supplied 7.1 Channel speaker with this receiver as HTiB)
    • Panasonic DMP-BD85K Blu Ray
    • XBOX 360 Slim
    • Belkin Pure AV PF-30 Power Conditioner
    • Epson Home Cinema 8700 UB Projector
    • Logitech Harmony 880

    http://picasaweb.google.com/arm.amar/HomeTheater#

    Family Room:
    • Panasonic 42" 42PX600U Plasma
    • Harman Kardon DVD31
    • Motorola Cable Box

  15. #15
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    I am a happy camper now!

    I tried the hdmi signal booster in the following setup in place of Male-to-Male HDMI connector as mentioned in blue:

    BluRay player HDMI --> 4 ft HDMI cable with ferrite core --> Wall Plate for Video --> Back of this wall plate --> a swivel type Male-to-Female HDMI adapter (This is done for flexibility since HDMI cable behind the wall was too thick to bend easily to connect) -->25 ft HDMI Cable --> Male-to-Male HDMI connector some where in ceiling --> Another 25 ft HDMI Cable --> Back of a Wall plate --> 6 Ft HDMI cable (no ferrite core) --> Projector.

    What that did was to immidiately begin showing the picture without any lag, But.... whenever there is Dark part of the scene, I see many many bright dots all around in that pictures. These dots became more apparent when the entire scene is dark... Very annoying. Moreover, the picture kept disappearing during the movie running... I could live with picture not showing initially anyday.

    Then I was talking to Panasonic tech support about some issue with my BluRay wireless and I also ran by the choppy BluRay video problem to him. He mentioned that there may be an incompatible hdmi connector or cable somewhere in the mix above. He mentioned that ALL cables and connectors should be 1.4 in order to work properly. I thought I give this a shot. Then I talked to monoproice tech support where I bought ALL my cables/wires, connectors and wall plates and we reviewd all HDMI cables and connectors we had and he mentioned that the Male-to-Male HDMI connector that I had was standard speed and not high speed. I ordered one highspeed conenctor and couple of extra high speed (1.4) HDMI cables. I replaced the standard Male-to-Male HDMI connector with high speed Male-to-Male HDMI connector. The picture did show up immidiately upon the start, but kept disappearing from time to time. However in the whole setup I had forgotten one last piece of connection i.e. thin HDMI cable from Wall to the projector. I had not bought that from monoprice and was not sure if it was standard speed or high speed. It was one of the cable provided by my cable company with my cable box. I took a shot at replacing this with one of the new one I ordered and voila! The picture not only started without any hiccups but it did not disappear during entire movie!

    So I guess compatibility was an issue here. However, the movie that I saw last was a regular DVD and not BluRay which was still choppy before I switched the final cable and as soon as I did, it was fine. I am still going to hold my breath till I see couple of more movies.

    Anyway, I just wanted to thank everyone for their input and suggestions. I really appreciate that.
    Home Theater:
    • Harman Kardon AVR 335
      (Supplied 7.1 Channel speaker with this receiver as HTiB)
    • Panasonic DMP-BD85K Blu Ray
    • XBOX 360 Slim
    • Belkin Pure AV PF-30 Power Conditioner
    • Epson Home Cinema 8700 UB Projector
    • Logitech Harmony 880

    http://picasaweb.google.com/arm.amar/HomeTheater#

    Family Room:
    • Panasonic 42" 42PX600U Plasma
    • Harman Kardon DVD31
    • Motorola Cable Box

  16. #16
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Still here if you need help, and I have a hunch you might.
    No offense, but some NASA uplinks are less complicated than your system. TWO
    25" footers linked together?
    ANYWAY, rots of ruck.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  17. #17
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    Thanks .this!

    I always liked your sense of humor. You almost wish I run into the problem, don't you? :-)
    Well, lets say there may be a BluRay movie in pipeline this week-end. Time will tell.

    You have no idea how much I wish you are wrong. Its really frustrating the picture not starting on me or keep disappearing on me during movie watching.

    Btw, if cable length WAS indeed a problem, why do they make 100ft cable? People use them I guess. Would they all not have similar problem? Just curious.
    Home Theater:
    • Harman Kardon AVR 335
      (Supplied 7.1 Channel speaker with this receiver as HTiB)
    • Panasonic DMP-BD85K Blu Ray
    • XBOX 360 Slim
    • Belkin Pure AV PF-30 Power Conditioner
    • Epson Home Cinema 8700 UB Projector
    • Logitech Harmony 880

    http://picasaweb.google.com/arm.amar/HomeTheater#

    Family Room:
    • Panasonic 42" 42PX600U Plasma
    • Harman Kardon DVD31
    • Motorola Cable Box

  18. #18
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    Ok so finally I think its resolved.
    I got rid of the 45 feet cable in the ceiling and replaced it with a straight 45 feet cable and connected it directly to my projector. Unfortunately, I could not find a 45 feet high-speed cable to I settled for standard speed one. I tested it before running it thru the ceiling and it works just fine. Picture is not choppy anymore, it does't show any dots and its just perfect. Phew!
    Thanks everyone for your inputs.
    Home Theater:
    • Harman Kardon AVR 335
      (Supplied 7.1 Channel speaker with this receiver as HTiB)
    • Panasonic DMP-BD85K Blu Ray
    • XBOX 360 Slim
    • Belkin Pure AV PF-30 Power Conditioner
    • Epson Home Cinema 8700 UB Projector
    • Logitech Harmony 880

    http://picasaweb.google.com/arm.amar/HomeTheater#

    Family Room:
    • Panasonic 42" 42PX600U Plasma
    • Harman Kardon DVD31
    • Motorola Cable Box

  19. #19
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    Finally, its resolved.

    Ok so finally I think its resolved.
    I got rid of the 45 feet cable in the ceiling and replaced it with a straight 45 feet cable and connected it directly to my projector. Unfortunately, I could not find a 45 feet high-speed cable to I settled for standard speed one. I tested it before running it thru the ceiling and it works just fine. Picture is not choppy anymore, it does't show any dots and its just perfect. Phew!
    Thanks everyone for your inputs.
    Home Theater:
    • Harman Kardon AVR 335
      (Supplied 7.1 Channel speaker with this receiver as HTiB)
    • Panasonic DMP-BD85K Blu Ray
    • XBOX 360 Slim
    • Belkin Pure AV PF-30 Power Conditioner
    • Epson Home Cinema 8700 UB Projector
    • Logitech Harmony 880

    http://picasaweb.google.com/arm.amar/HomeTheater#

    Family Room:
    • Panasonic 42" 42PX600U Plasma
    • Harman Kardon DVD31
    • Motorola Cable Box

  20. #20
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    Hey amarmistry, glad to hear you got your problems resolved. But for the future, with a run that long between the source unit and your display, even with a booster you are pushihng the capabilities of an HDMI. When running that long, i'd recommend running cat-5s with hdmi baluns on the end. The cat-5 will handle the high data transfer over that length much better than a long hdmi would. just food for thought.

  21. #21
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    I am having choppy video playback on my blu-ray player also. I have a toshiba 2100bk blu ray player. When I play any blu-ray discs I get a very choppy video and audio on my tv, I have tried different cables to NO avail.

    Please can someone help as this is getting very annoying.

    Many thanks

    D

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