HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray...both losers.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

That writer is wrong on many fronts, and the article title is quite misleading. I found his article quite biased in favor of Blu-ray, actually.

Well spoken from the HD DVD camp, however I think the article has a whole lot of merit.

That said, he focuses on "players costing up to $1500" for both formats... and while this is certainly true, it does not mention that they are also available for as low as $500 (HD-A1) and a street price around $400 or less in some quarters. Hardly a bank breaker for many early adopter types. By next year, both formats will be much less expensive, and as such will be more available to J6P.

Yes, but for that $500 you only get 2 advanced codecs, the lossless one in two channels only. You do not get 1080P which is the native coding format for the disc itself. This is not what the potential of this format can deliver.

As for the 50GB vs. 30GB... Both formats can support higher amounts than those numbers by adding more layers if needed. He points to that fact later on in the article only for Blu-ray (while seemingly reversing his earlier point), but no mention anywhere that HD DVD can do the same... It is true that Blu-ray has an advantage of 25GB *per layer* over HD DVD's 15GB per layer, but right now BRD is only releasing 25GB single layer discs with the high space consuming MPEG-2 codec, versus most HD DVDs being 30GB dual layer discs using the more efficient VC-1 encoding. Picture quality has been in HD DVD's favor on every release so far that is on both formats for comparioson purposes.

HD DVD can only support two layers because of the pit depth. Sony however can support up to 4 layers which top out at 100GB. HD DVD at its best cannot come close to that. And yes HD DVD is winning the picture battle, but so far BR is winning the audio side providing 16bit uncompressed audio as opposed to lossy DD+. Also consider that the Samsung was released with the video filter enabled, and that does make the picture softer. However, poor masters where used in many of the inital BR releases and you cannot expect that Sony will continue that practice. They are just trying to get titles released to support the single player out there. I can tell you for a fact based on what I have seen, and heard when the Pioneer and Sony players are released, things will be much different.

For all the declarations by the writer and "analysts" that BRD has won the war already, I say they need to visit AVSForum.com and see what they think. ;-) I think they are about 3 months behind the times with their statements... At this point due to BRD's poor start (quality-wise, price-wise and player delays), it really is anyone's to win.

AVSFforums opinions are not the end all of opinions. The members do not make or break a format. Secondly you are sadly underestimating the fact the only ONE company is going to be manufacturing HD DVD players. ONLY ONE! How long do you thing Toshiba can afford to be the only manufacturer of its players? Without broad support from the manufacturing community, it leaves Toshiba very exposed financially. Toshiba also cannot keep up with the demand for its players, how long do you think that people are going to sit around waiting for their player to come? The last time I check my own BB, they had no $500 players and haven't had any in a couple of weeks. So having a lower price but no product doesn't really give one an advantage.

The studio support does initially favor BRD, but as people buy more and more HD DVD players due to their current video superiority, coupled with their much lower prices, the studios could very well switch sides or release on both formats to hedge their bets... I originally thought BRD had the early advantage due to many factors including this early support, but now it is anyone's game.

The studio support for BR stems from the fact there is very broad support amount CE manufacturers, and that includes manufacturers of PC's as well. The studio's recognize that the sheer size of that support will guarantee the success of this format. From what I have heard the studio's are waiting for a couple of things that will really put BR over the top. 50GB dual layer disc, and the introduction of players from Sony, Pioneer, LG, Hitachi, Panasonic, Sharp, and Phillips. All of this will occur next year when most analyst think that this format war will really begin. All of these companies will release players with varying prices, and probably lower than the current offerings. To even think that just because HD DVD came out strong means they have the advantage is a naive, shortsighted, and wishful thinking. I see Toshiba position with HD DVD the same as Sony with Beta. Sony choose to go it alone with Beta, while VHS had wide manufacturing support. VHS won for the consumer, and lost the professional market, Sony lost the consumer market but won the professional market because their product was superior in every way to VHS. Sony sold enough Beta players and recorders to the professional market to consider that format a success in spite of the fact that they didn't win the consumer market.

Bottom line is this article is quite deceptive and biased at best, and in some cases flat out wrong.

---Dave

Disagree entirely. However in the end we all will see. Right now, I see no one with a advantage. 2007 however is really when the big race takes place. I think only then will it be appropriate to discuss who has the advantage.

[drseid]

Yes, but for that $500 you only get 2 advanced codecs, the lossless one in two channels only. You do not get 1080P which is the native coding format for the disc itself. This is not what the potential of this format can deliver.

It is true that the lossless one is in two channels, but firmware update 2.0 is going to be released any day now (this has been posted on several web sites and forums, and has been confirmed by Toshiba reps) and it will offer Dolby TruHD Lossless for 5.1 channels. This should sound quite good indeed. I actually also prefer the DD+ to the PCM soundtracks on the BRDs, BTW.

The 1080p output is irrelevant and has been debunked a long time ago by several folks on AVSforum.com and elsewhere. This is more marketing hype by the Blu-ray camp than anything else.

HD DVD can only support two layers because of the pit depth. Sony however can support up to 4 layers which top out at 100GB. HD DVD at its best cannot come close to that. And yes HD DVD is winning the picture battle, but so far BR is winning the audio side providing 16bit uncompressed audio as opposed to lossy DD+. Also consider that the Samsung was released with the video filter enabled, and that does make the picture softer. However, poor masters where used in many of the inital BR releases and you cannot expect that Sony will continue that practice. They are just trying to get titles released to support the single player out there. I can tell you for a fact based on what I have seen, and heard when the Pioneer and Sony players are released, things will be much different.

Actually this is incorrect. HD DVD has already tested 3 layer discs and could use them any time they want to (the actual maximum storage capacity for the format is 4 layers with 60GB). That said, I do not know if they ever will, as they really are not necessary (as the dual-layer discs already being used are showing they are quite sufficient). Blu-ray is testing discs that have even more than 4 layers, but those tests so far have mainly been for computer storage use. This of course could change and would allow Blu-ray to expand further as well.

As for the Samsung player, it was not the best player to debut the format to be sure. I have also heard that the Pioneer in particular seems to be a better representative of what a BRD player can do. That said, the insiders who have seen it in action on AVSforum.com prefered HD DVD (for 1/3 the price currently). I agree that the masters can and will improve over time, and that can only help Blu-ray in the long run. HD DVD of course can also improve...

AVSFforums opinions are not the end all of opinions. The members do not make or break a format. Secondly you are sadly underestimating the fact the only ONE company is going to be manufacturing HD DVD players. ONLY ONE! How long do you thing Toshiba can afford to be the only manufacturer of its players? Without broad support from the manufacturing community, it leaves Toshiba very exposed financially. Toshiba also cannot keep up with the demand for its players, how long do you think that people are going to sit around waiting for their player to come? The last time I check my own BB, they had no $500 players and haven't had any in a couple of weeks. So having a lower price but no product doesn't really give one an advantage.

With respect to the AVSforum statement above... I agree. Of course I never said that they did make or break a format. What they *do* represent is some very knowledgeable folks that tend to be early adopters and industry insiders. Hardly people to ignore when getting a format off the ground. Once the initial launches are complete, it will be J6P who will ultimately determine the success or failure of either format.

As for Toshiba being the only OEM for the players... That is true for now. There are already other companies that will be getting in on the action quite soon. Still there is no question that Sony and the rest of the Blu-ray camp have the upper hand here.

Disagree entirely. However in the end we all will see. Right now, I see no one with a advantage. 2007 however is really when the big race takes place. I think only then will it be appropriate to discuss who has the advantage.

Agreed, we shall see. :-)

---Dave