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  1. #1
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    HD Broadcasters Guide: 720p and 1080i List

    This is information that I had posted in a previous thread. I've updated it with some more recent additions. If anyone has information about other channels, feel free to add them.

    Amid all the claims about 720p versus 1080i, on the broadcasters' side, it's still split. Although it seems that most of the more recently added HD channels now use 1080i.

    As I'd noted, the biggest broadcaster blocs that use 720p include ABC/Disney/ESPN, Fox, and the A&E family, while 1080i is used by NBC/Universal, CBS, Time Warner, and Discovery.

    720p: ABC, Fox, ESPN Networks (ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNews, ESPNU, ESPN 3D), A&E Networks (A&E, History, History International, Crime & Investigation, Biography), Fox Sports Net, Fox News, Fox Business, FX, CBS College Sports, MLB Network, Disney Channels (Disney, DXD, Disney Kids, ABC Family), Speed Channel, Fuel, Big Ten Network, SportsSouth, Sunshine Sports Network, SportsTime Ohio

    1080i: NBC, CBS, CW, Univision, CNN, HDNet, NFL Network, NBA TV, Discovery Networks (Discovery, TLC, Travel Channel, Animal Planet, Science Channel, Planet Green, HD Theater), National Geographic, HGTV, Food Network, Weather Channel, HBO, Showtime, TNT, USA, TBS, MTV Networks (MTV, MTV2, VH1), Nickelodeon Networks, CNBC, Tennis Channel, Versus, NHL Network, Golf Channel, Spike TV, SyFy, Comcast Sportsnet, Comedy Central, G4, BBC America, Bravo, Turner Classic Movies, Lifetime, WGN America, Hallmark, CMT, BET, NESN, MSG, SNY, Altitude, YES Network, Mountain West Sports Network
    Last edited by Woochifer; 06-30-2010 at 06:59 AM.
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  2. #2
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    With HBO and Showtime being 1080i, I guess it is pretty good assumption that all premium channels are broadcasting 1080i. Traditionally, Cable and satellite companies usually alocate more bandwidth to premium channels, so 1080 format should look pretty darn good on these channels.

    BTW, I found this web site where it list all of your local HD and QAM channels with assigned numbers. Just enter zip code:

    http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/

  3. #3
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    With HBO and Showtime being 1080i, I guess it is pretty good assumption that all premium channels are broadcasting 1080i. Traditionally, Cable and satellite companies usually alocate more bandwidth to premium channels, so 1080 format should look pretty darn good on these channels.

    BTW, I found this web site where it list all of your local HD and QAM channels with assigned numbers. Just enter zip code:

    http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/
    1080i would look really good on cable channels if they would not compress the signal to death. By the time they are finished throwing away data, there is barely enough there to represent HD.
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  4. #4
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    With HBO and Showtime being 1080i, I guess it is pretty good assumption that all premium channels are broadcasting 1080i. Traditionally, Cable and satellite companies usually alocate more bandwidth to premium channels, so 1080 format should look pretty darn good on these channels.

    BTW, I found this web site where it list all of your local HD and QAM channels with assigned numbers. Just enter zip code:

    http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/
    YOU SET THE output resolution, and thats what you will get regardless.
    There is a seperate setting for SD material, has several options for handling that.
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  5. #5
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    With HBO and Showtime being 1080i, I guess it is pretty good assumption that all premium channels are broadcasting 1080i. Traditionally, Cable and satellite companies usually alocate more bandwidth to premium channels, so 1080 format should look pretty darn good on these channels.
    With the exception of sports channels, most other HD channels have chosen 1080i as the standard broadcast format. Makes sense given how 1080p is steadily growing and video processors have improved.

    as far as bandwidth goes, it really varies. Someone on one of the satellite boards used to post the bandwidth stats for the various channels on Directv, and I was surprised to see the bandwidth for HBO and HDNet not among the highest. That was the case with the MPEG-2 signal, not sure how things shape up with the MPEG-4 signal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    1080i would look really good on cable channels if they would not compress the signal to death. By the time they are finished throwing away data, there is barely enough there to represent HD.
    Most of the local broadcast channels actually look better on Comcast cable than they do on Directv. (I have bare basic cable for the other rooms in the house, so I don't know what the extended basic channels look like) At least where I live, the cable HD channels are not that degraded from the OTA signal when I did an A-B comparison.

    Directv's quality with local channels has really varied CBS5 was virtually unwatchable beginning around last year's NCAA tournament (visible macroblocking around moving objects), and they seemed to fix it earlier this year. Still though,the picture looks somewhat different from the OTA and cable signals. I suspect this might be partly due to the real-time conversion of MPEG-2 signals to MPEG-4.


    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    YOU SET THE output resolution, and thats what you will get regardless.
    Unless the set top box has the option for native output, which is what I use because my TV handles the rescaling process better than my satellite receiver does.
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  6. #6
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    With the exception of sports channels, most other HD channels have chosen 1080i as the standard broadcast format. Makes sense given how 1080p is steadily growing and video processors have improved.

    as far as bandwidth goes, it really varies. Someone on one of the satellite boards used to post the bandwidth stats for the various channels on Directv, and I was surprised to see the bandwidth for HBO and HDNet not among the highest. That was the case with the MPEG-2 signal, not sure how things shape up with the MPEG-4 signal.



    Most of the local broadcast channels actually look better on Comcast cable than they do on Directv. (I have bare basic cable for the other rooms in the house, so I don't know what the extended basic channels look like) At least where I live, the cable HD channels are not that degraded from the OTA signal when I did an A-B comparison.

    Directv's quality with local channels has really varied CBS5 was virtually unwatchable beginning around last year's NCAA tournament (visible macroblocking around moving objects), and they seemed to fix it earlier this year. Still though,the picture looks somewhat different from the OTA and cable signals. I suspect this might be partly due to the real-time conversion of MPEG-2 signals to MPEG-4.




    Unless the set top box has the option for native output, which is what I use because my TV handles the rescaling process better than my satellite receiver does.
    Well, when I tried that I ONLY GOT 1080I.
    Ifind that 480i works best for SD, allows for me to change the aspect ratio on my set.
    COMCAST HAS COME A LONG WAY, their PPV looks especially good.
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  7. #7
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    I was on Comcast a year and half ago. For a few weeks they gave me their HD channels such as HBO and STARZ. As far as standard definition broadcasts goes, they looked good to me all the ways back to 1978 when I first got cable in my area under a town video systems set-up that was acquired by Telecable who was acqured by Comcast. The only time the picture stunk was when they used a sweep generator that put scrolling white lines down the picture. I found that out by a spokesmen at the cable company who spilled the beans to the wrong person(me) and began a fight with them. A sweeperless system finally went into place and it no longer became an issue.

    I got Direct TV a year and a half ago. My brother and I noticed some differences right away. We felt that HBO looked better on the Comcast while STARZ looked better on Direct TV. Our standard def tvs in our bedrooms received standard def boxes from Direct TV. Both of us were not pleased at all with any SD broadcast from Direct. The image looked sort of out of focus and caused us immediate eye strain. On my bedroom Proscan 27 inch set, I also had the RF cable running thru a vcr. I had the signal pass thru the vcr. Remember that vcrs have a pre-set type of automatic gain control(agc). Hitting the vcr switch corrected to a great degree the unsharp and lack of contrast picture that I got from Direct SD. In fact, IMHO it ran greater than the norm that I experienced over the years.

    I have an attic antenna where I live. It was put in my attic in 1977 and is a color surburban antenna. I did hook it up to my high-def Toshiba and compared as best as possible any standard def and high def broadcasts coming over the air vs Directs reception. I really could not find any difference at all over this set. I did not run this test on my bedroom tv; too much wires,cameras and other electronics in the way to do a test on that Proscan tv.

    When our two year contract is up, I am not too sure if I will go back to Comcast or remain with Direct. Other than the weather factor with satellite that does not last long, I felt that overall Direct was more reliable than Comcast for service.

    My brother's high-def set is a Samsung 5054 720P plasma while I have a Toshiba 37inch Regza. On his set, 1080I seemed to look "better" than 720P broadcasts. On my set, I could see no difference. Although a smaller set then my brother's Samsung, I feel that the 14bit video processing system "might" be superior that Toshiba offers.
    Last edited by kelsci; 07-05-2010 at 01:22 AM. Reason: additional info

  8. #8
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelsci
    I was on Comcast a year and half ago. For a few weeks they gave me their HD channels such as HBO and STARZ. As far as standard definition broadcasts goes, they looked good to me all the ways back to 1978 when I first got cable in my area under a town video systems set-up that was acquired by Telecable who was acqured by Comcast. The only time the picture stunk was when they used a sweep generator that put scrolling white lines down the picture. I found that out by a spokesmen at the cable company who spilled the beans to the wrong person(me) and began a fight with them. A sweeperless system finally went into place and it no longer became an issue.

    I got Direct TV a year and a half ago. My brother and I noticed some differences right away. We felt that HBO looked better on the Comcast while STARZ looked better on Direct TV. Our standard def tvs in our bedrooms received standard def boxes from Direct TV. Both of us were not pleased at all with any SD broadcast from Direct. The image looked sort of out of focus and caused us immediate eye strain. On my bedroom Proscan 27 inch set, I also had the RF cable running thru a vcr. I had the signal pass thru the vcr. Remember that vcrs have a pre-set type of automatic gain control(agc). Hitting the vcr switch corrected to a great degree the unsharp and lack of contrast picture that I got from Direct SD. In fact, IMHO it ran greater than the norm that I experienced over the years.

    I have an attic antenna where I live. It was put in my attic in 1977 and is a color surburban antenna. I did hook it up to my high-def Toshiba and compared as best as possible any standard def and high def broadcasts coming over the air vs Directs reception. I really could not find any difference at all over this set. I did not run this test on my bedroom tv; too much wires,cameras and other electronics in the way to do a test on that Proscan tv.

    When our two year contract is up, I am not too sure if I will go back to Comcast or remain with Direct. Other than the weather factor with satellite that does not last long, I felt that overall Direct was more reliable than Comcast for service.

    My brother's high-def set is a Samsung 5054 720P plasma while I have a Toshiba 37inch Regza. On his set, 1080I seemed to look "better" than 720P broadcasts. On my set, I could see no difference. Although a smaller set then my brother's Samsung, I feel that the 14bit video processing system "might" be superior that Toshiba offers.
    Oddly, your set might give the impression of looking better, because with a smaller screen, it will give the impression of being sharper in some cases.
    AND 1080I MIGH "LOOK" BETTER, BUT the set is still throwing away information.
    I MOVED TO 1080P FROM 720P, and never looked back, am never going to have anything but 1080p or brtter here on out.
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    Hi Pixel; In actuality the Samsung which is a two or three year old set was the one that I and my brother(it is his set) that could see the difference. True on a smaller screen the differences could be viewed as negligible.

    I was able to view one 1080P set in the past year; a 40 inch Proscan my friend bought at Costco. It was hooked up to Comcast HIGH-DEF but I think it was not hooked up to the high-def cable output, only the component outputs. The picture looked pleasing on this set,but when he hooked up a upconverting panasonic dvd player to 1080P playing some discs, it was downright stunning. At this time, both of us are essentially satisfied with 720P pics we are getting but our next sets would only be 1080P

  10. #10
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelsci
    I got Direct TV a year and a half ago. My brother and I noticed some differences right away. We felt that HBO looked better on the Comcast while STARZ looked better on Direct TV. Our standard def tvs in our bedrooms received standard def boxes from Direct TV. Both of us were not pleased at all with any SD broadcast from Direct. The image looked sort of out of focus and caused us immediate eye strain. On my bedroom Proscan 27 inch set, I also had the RF cable running thru a vcr. I had the signal pass thru the vcr. Remember that vcrs have a pre-set type of automatic gain control(agc). Hitting the vcr switch corrected to a great degree the unsharp and lack of contrast picture that I got from Direct SD. In fact, IMHO it ran greater than the norm that I experienced over the years.
    I suspect that might be due to HBO transmitting their satellite signal using MPEG-2 and Starz (I believe) transmitting with a MPEG-4 signal (I know that Showtime converted over to MPEG-4 a couple of years ago). Directv's HD receivers now all use the more efficient MPEG-4 as the native data compression format. Any channel sent to them in MPEG-2 has to be converted into MPEG-4 in real time.

    On my old analog CRT TV, I thought that Directv's SD signal looked fine, even though Directv does reduce the resolution. This seems more noticeable on a fixed pixel TV (CRTs are not fixed, so they can scale down much better than fixed pixel flat panel TVs can).

    The analog picture will also vary quite a bit depending on which receiver model you use. I recall that the color balances changed a bit when our older RCA receiver failed and Directv exchanged that for a refurbished Philips receiver. I would guess that things are a bit more consistent now that Directv now sells their own satellite receivers.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelsci
    I have an attic antenna where I live. It was put in my attic in 1977 and is a color surburban antenna. I did hook it up to my high-def Toshiba and compared as best as possible any standard def and high def broadcasts coming over the air vs Directs reception. I really could not find any difference at all over this set. I did not run this test on my bedroom tv; too much wires,cameras and other electronics in the way to do a test on that Proscan tv.

    When our two year contract is up, I am not too sure if I will go back to Comcast or remain with Direct. Other than the weather factor with satellite that does not last long, I felt that overall Direct was more reliable than Comcast for service.

    My brother's high-def set is a Samsung 5054 720P plasma while I have a Toshiba 37inch Regza. On his set, 1080I seemed to look "better" than 720P broadcasts. On my set, I could see no difference. Although a smaller set then my brother's Samsung, I feel that the 14bit video processing system "might" be superior that Toshiba offers.
    I suspect that a 37" HDTV is just not big enough to pick up on some of these differences. In my area at least, I could see some noticeable differences in the HD picture on local broadcast channels. OTA antenna simply looked the best, and it was more noticeable on the 1080i channels.

    The HD picture quality on Directv, at least with local broadcast channels, has varied quite a bit. I suspect that they are varying the bandwidth on the local broadcast channels, and seeing how low they can go before subscribers begin noticing. I could tell immediately when my local CBS station began pixelating on sports programs last year, and they seem to have fixed the problem a few months ago.
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  11. #11
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    Hi Woochifer; I have had very little communication with you but I have had plenty with our friend, Sir Terrance.

    If you have the time, I would like to refer you to my electronics blog on blogspot. If Sir Terrence by chance is reading this he is welcome to do the same.

    Trying to really compare a 50 inch plasma to a 37 inch LCD falls into that state of comparision known as "apples and oranges". So I realize that. Of course I am not sitting with a 50 inch Toshiba Regza to make a fair comparison. Over the years, I delevoped alot of "electronics intuition". My feelings tell me that the Toshiba's 14 bit processing may very well be on the level which may be why the 720P and the 1080i broadcasts really do not show any difference.

    I have an older 27 inch Proscan which when manufactured was considered a rather good standard def television. I personally found it to be quite good with a dvd player(has only S-VHS input) more so than its built in tuner that I used to pick up Comcasts cable SD.
    On the same token, my brother has a 27 inch Toshiba SD CRT tv(this model was a top of the line unit). We both have Direct TV SD cable boxes on both. We were immeaditely dissastisfied with the SD picture from Direct. Now this is over a year and a half ago. I cannot say whether that SD picture has improved from them. Lately for a number of months, I have not watched anything on my CRT set but he watches alot on his. He has not said anything lately about the SD picture so at this point I was only commenting at that time of what I saw at instellation back then and for what I watched for some period of time.
    To note that Direct TV has added more HD channels to its lineup.

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