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  1. #1
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Do you plan on upgrading to the new HD formats when they arrive?

    The more information I get about HD-DVD and BluRay disc the more they both intrigue me. When you look at the supporters of each format, you can see this is going to be a real battle that perhaps no one will win(including the consumer). The more informed I am, the more I am pushed to support BluRay. Why? First it's storage capacity on disc is higher which mean more content, or uncompressed lossless content. Secondly it's ability to grow as a fomat(extra layers mean more storage space). And lastly, it is backwards compatible with current DVD standards.

    The fly in the ointment boils down to this. You have computer companies supporting BluRay along with three movie studios. HD DVD has four movie studios and also has support from a few electronic manufacturers. Aside from Sony, Columbia, and MGM neither format has exclusive studio support, and many studio's are opting to support both.

    Purely from a technical standpoint BluRay wins hands down. But that will not translate into consumer success as Betamax owner know very well. HD DVD by name sake has better brand recognition(DVD), and is positioning itself as evolutionary as opposed to BluRay's revolutionary.

    At this point I am behind BluRay with a caveat. I will not be a early adopter like I was for D-VHS, which turned out to be a green herring. I have amassed over 1100 DVD's(blockbuster movies and twenty five years of drum and bugle corps legacy DVD's) and I have no desired to replace them. I will stop buying them when BluRay hits, and that is another problem for the studio's. What if millions of consumers do exactly the same thing. That will present a huge problem for the revenue stream of the major studio's. Personally I cannot see how the introduction of these new formats will benefit the studio unless they support them. Either way its a chance in darkness for them. Universal players are of no use in this instance because both formats are video formats, and studio will not created to different inventories just to support both formats.

    IMO, it is too early to introduce this technology. DVD hasn't been on the market but 8 years, and already we are seeing the beginnings of its turnover. Laserdisc and VHS enjoyed a longer life than this format. DVD like the laserdisc and VHS will die a very slow death(if at all) if either of the two formats does gain a foothold into the market.

    I am definately taking a wait and see attitude even though I fully support BluRay

    Okay, that is all. Talk amoungst yourselves
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  2. #2
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    And lastly, [Blueray] is backwards compatible with current DVD standards.
    Are you sure about this?

    From what I have read, HD-DVD will be backward compatible with current DVDs, but Blueray won't be since it uses blue laser instead of red which current DVD player uses.

  3. #3
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Are you sure about this?

    From what I have read, HD-DVD will be backward compatible with current DVDs, but Blueray won't be since it uses blue laser instead of red which current DVD player uses.
    Smoke,
    Both use blue laser to read the data. And yes several manufacturer have product in developement that are backwards compatible with DVD. I think that is important if BluRay wants to become the format of choice.
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  4. #4
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    OK, thanks TT

    I must agree with you that Blueray might have upper hand here with higher storage capability. Looks like DVD-HD will only hold 25 gigabytes storage, while Blue-Ray discs have more storage capacity--50 gigabytes (and upgradeable to 200 GB).

    AS far as which format will survive might also depend on price of each format's disc/player

  5. #5
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    I share many of your sentiments and will concur, in theory at least, as I don't even currently own a HD monitor, that what will be most attractive to me is a unit that is backward compatible to my less than 1100 DVD collection. But given the fact that people who currently enjoy HD programming note that it ruins them for regular broadcasts, I think these new formats will be very enticing.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular risabet's Avatar
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    Sounds Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    OK, thanks TT

    I must agree with you that Blueray might have upper hand here with higher storage capability. Looks like DVD-HD will only hold 25 gigabytes storage, while Blue-Ray discs have more storage capacity--50 gigabytes (and upgradeable to 200 GB).

    AS far as which format will survive might also depend on price of each format's disc/player
    VHS won the format wars based on its longer recording time, though in a side by side comparison Beta had a better picture. Hope this won't be the case with these formats.

    I won't be buying either until they get it sorted out. Early adopters oft times get screwed.

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  7. #7
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    One thing at a time. I still need to get a HDTV before I'm even in the game for one of the new video formats. And I think that's the biggest hurdle in convincing people on the merits of the new video formats. Having a format war from the get go is not a good sign.

    I think some another problem that might get ugly is with how analog video signals get handled. My understanding is that the studios are pushing big time for the full HD resolution to ONLY output through a copy protected digital output such as HDMI. We won't know how it plays out until the first production players hit the street, but the pressure's on to limit the analog component video output to 480p resolution -- the SAME resolution as current DVDs! Problem with this limitation is that it basically forces consumers who bought their HDTVs as recently as last year to buy yet another HDTV simply because the model they bought lacks digital video inputs.

    At least, the manufacturers backed off from their previous threat to make the new HD video players incompatible with DVDs. All in all, I think that if Blu-ray or HD-DVD succeed, it will be in spite of the decisions that have been made thus far.

    I posted a similar topic about three years ago, but I think it's every bit as valid now. On that thread, I stated that DVD came out before the technology was ready, and very well might have locked us into an inferior format for decades to come. At that time, we already knew that the HD broadcast formats would be 720p or 1080i, yet the DVD was specified around 480i resolution (my understanding is that progressive scan was added later). If all of the development resources that went into DVD instead went into developing a HD disc format instead, maybe we'd have a single HD video disc standard by now. It might have pushed the introduction back by a few years, but at least we'd have something that's consistent with broadcast resolution.

    Obviously, the DVD was intended to be an interim format until HD took hold, but with the rapidity of its adoption and subsequent commodification, and how thoroughly it transformed how people buy/rent videos, I think the format is more entrenched than the manufacturers would like to believe. Despite huge advances in digital audio, we're still stuck with 1979-vintage technology in the CD. We very well might be saying the same thing years from now about how the entrenched position of the DVD format has locked us into an inferior video standard.

    As far as Blu-ray vs HD-DVD goes, I'm probably going to wait it out. The momentum for the two camps seems to shift every other week. The studios have pretty much divided up into two camps, neither of which has a decided advantage over the other. On the PC side though, I think Blu-ray has started to inch ahead, and Apple's announcement that they would support Blu-ray is another push in their favor.

    Another reason for waiting is that the DD+ and DTS-HD decoders will probably won't be readily available at an affordable price for a while yet. For me, I see too many things unsettled about this transition to be an early adopter.

  8. #8
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    OK, as I'm becoming enlightened to the the video side of HT, I've learned about "true HD" which appears to be 1080p. Currently, there are only a handful of sets that can handle this resolution and... *surprise*... they ain't cheap. There are purported to be more and more sets with 1080p resolution hitting the market later this year so my question is; Is Blu-Ray and HD-DVD in 1080p? Will I be able to play them on a 720p set or 1080i, which I understand is actually worse than 720p? While I would rather not wait (or pay the high price of) first gen 1080p sets, I suppose I can make due if it would be worth it. Like Wooch, I doubt I'll get into the format wars at first, but it would be nice to have the capability if one or both really do take off. What I don't want to do is spend $4K on a set only to find it obsolete in a couple of years. THAT would make a very unhappy camper .

  9. #9
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    In my opinion both formats are stillborn

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    The more information I get about HD-DVD and BluRay disc the more they both intrigue me. When you look at the supporters of each format, you can see this is going to be a real battle that perhaps no one will win(including the consumer). The more informed I am, the more I am pushed to support BluRay. Why? First it's storage capacity on disc is higher which mean more content, or uncompressed lossless content. Secondly it's ability to grow as a fomat(extra layers mean more storage space). And lastly, it is backwards compatible with current DVD standards.

    The fly in the ointment boils down to this. You have computer companies supporting BluRay along with three movie studios. HD DVD has four movie studios and also has support from a few electronic manufacturers. Aside from Sony, Columbia, and MGM neither format has exclusive studio support, and many studio's are opting to support both.

    Purely from a technical standpoint BluRay wins hands down. But that will not translate into consumer success as Betamax owner know very well. HD DVD by name sake has better brand recognition(DVD), and is positioning itself as evolutionary as opposed to BluRay's revolutionary.

    At this point I am behind BluRay with a caveat. I will not be a early adopter like I was for D-VHS, which turned out to be a green herring. I have amassed over 1100 DVD's(blockbuster movies and twenty five years of drum and bugle corps legacy DVD's) and I have no desired to replace them. I will stop buying them when BluRay hits, and that is another problem for the studio's. What if millions of consumers do exactly the same thing. That will present a huge problem for the revenue stream of the major studio's. Personally I cannot see how the introduction of these new formats will benefit the studio unless they support them. Either way its a chance in darkness for them. Universal players are of no use in this instance because both formats are video formats, and studio will not created to different inventories just to support both formats.

    IMO, it is too early to introduce this technology. DVD hasn't been on the market but 8 years, and already we are seeing the beginnings of its turnover. Laserdisc and VHS enjoyed a longer life than this format. DVD like the laserdisc and VHS will die a very slow death(if at all) if either of the two formats does gain a foothold into the market.

    I am definately taking a wait and see attitude even though I fully support BluRay

    Okay, that is all. Talk amoungst yourselves

    One of that major reasons is as you've noted; DVD @ 8 years old is just entering it's prime.

    Also, and you probably know the numbers better than me, only about 10% of TV sets in housholds right now are capable of taking advantage of the higher rez of these newer formats, where as over 90% of TVs sold now can take advantage of DVD's 480p.

    Progressive players are dirt cheap now, and built pretty well to boot. If joe consumer spent $150 on a cheap multiplayer he will probably get 4-6 years out of it or more. Whe he goes to replace it you can bet that if there's a BlueRay player that's $800 to $1k, he's going to skip over it, especially if the Hi-Rez software is more expensive than DVD.

    In my view, especially after looking at the debacle that is High-Rez audio, both BlueRay, and HD-DVD are going to be very limited niche players just like DVD-Audio & SACD.
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  10. #10
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Yet more excuses to get us into the stores again.

    Gee, I miss the old days where vinyl ruled fairly well untouched (save for improvments) from the 50's to the early 80's. Then CD's toppled them and remained fairly well on top until, well, actually they still are. DVD-Audio and SACD are still trying to get a foothold and if Joe Sixpack has any say, it ain't gonna happen.

    And, let's face it, Joe Sixpack and his Wal-Mart spending habits determine what's here for the long haul and what falls by the wayside into the land of niche markets.

    It's like when he turned away from vinyl and bought into redbook CD. He didn't go CD for the sound so much as other easilty quantifiable areas. It was the convenience and elimination of noise. The sound was secondary.

    Too many people have DVD's now and are more than satisfied with it. I'll wait until one of these new formats becomes a standard and the hardware is plentiful, cheap and proven and the softwars is likewise.

  11. #11
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    I have no doubt that hi-rez audio and HD video formats will thrive in due time. I think we (by we I mean the a/v buffs that are probably more into this stuff than Joe Consumer) have unrealistic expectations for rate of adoption.

    Home audio/video technology has traditionally been adopted at a very much slower pace than computer technology. Yet this seems to be the standard it is held against.
    As Wooch pointed out...the CD came out in what, very early 1980's and took over 10 years to become the audio standard. DVD took several years to overthrow VHS as the video standard as well.

    It's just way too early to write off either SACD or DVD-A as an audio medium...give it 5 more years, and I'm sure we'll have at least a viable alternative to the CD. (though it might not be either of these, or it might be both, who knows?) If the labels wisen up and start "dual-disc-ing" every new release, people are gonna want to take advantage the new product they're paying a premium for. Marketing isn't just about satisfying consumer needs, it's about creating them too! Given the amounts of cash companies have invested into these formats, I'm fairly confident they aren't just going to walk away from them.

    The same can be said for these video formats too...the trick is finding the right time to really push these to the consumer. I didn't buy my first DVD player until 2000. And cheapskate that I am, I wish I waited until 2001 when it became 50% cheaper!!! I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this boat. The HT market has really boomed in the last 5 years, and I have no doubt that a few years down the road, people will be ready for the next latest and greatest format. It's just not going to happen overnight.

    Perhaps someone can help me here: If 1080i or 1080p are the absolute best video formats, and losless DTS hi-rez audio format is the standard on these new formats, won't HD-DVD and BluRay both have more than enough storage capacity to deliver the same performance anyway? That is, won't the extra storage be a moot point for BluRay? Even if it's not, will the extra capability translate into a real world performance benefit, or will it be negligible, despite boasting superior numbers?

    If so, then I feel Smokey is right, the price of the players, and the availability of titles will determine the victor.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    kexo,

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned, I don't think, is that the HD-DVD is easier to manufacture. It can use basically the same platform that already exists. This is a major advantage, even if it doesn't ultimately kill the competition. It's the reason why HD-DVD players will emerge first.

    Someone else asked a question about 1080p. A slew of new displays has entered the market as 1080p-capable, but it's important to note that none of them is able to accept a 1080p signal through an input, only to scale their data to 1920x1080p, but virtually all HD displays on the market have to scale signals to their native resolution. Eventually displays will be able to input 1080p, but the broadcasters will be at either 720p or 1080i for the foreseeable future. Another point to remember is that unless you're going to view within a certain distance on a particular screen size (which will have to reach some minimum height and width just to fit so many pixels), 1920x1080p will not look any better than lower HD resolutions. Don't get me wrong; the improvement is worth noting. However, beyond a certain distance (relative to a particular screen size), the miniscule size of the pixels makes it impossible for the eye to appreciate the added detail. If you have the room and the cash, 1080p will undoubtedly pay dividends; many people, however, will not benefit. It's a drag sitting too close to a large screen just to squeeze out a few pixels (most people will lose interest after the initial novelty), and knocking down a few walls to put up a huge screen just for the sake of 1080p is hardly a viable strategy for most of us. This is one upgrade that can be taken with a grain of salt.

    I think that the extra storage capacity is a moot point for most viewers, who'll mostly be interested in getting their DVDs and sound at a higher resolution. The ability to store more data will not impact the primary reason that consumers will buy either format. Technical archivists will find Blu-Ray's storage capacity valuable, but who among us wants to watch extras for a week and a half just because they will fit?

    One more point: The original impetus for DVI and HDMI was the studios' desire to protect content, the same move that we have witnessed over the years with other formats. But it remains to be seen whether they are able to deny those with only analog connections the HD programming that they spent hard-earned money to enjoy. A nasty legal battle is falling into place. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the studios to be able to pull the plug on analog at their impulse without serious opposition--not to imply that they won't initiate other means to make life hard for those who pose a threat to them. It's about time these old fogeys got creative about protecting their interests and started looking for ways to adapt to, rather than scuttle, new technologies out of the chute. So far, they have been able to parlay these moments of terror into increased revenue for themselves without impaing the "rights" of others (I know there's a lot more to be said on this subject), and I'm sure that a little ingenuity will help them this time as well. Standing in the way of progress won't cut it, for anyone.

    I'll probably adopt one of the new DVD formats fairly early, depending on how the war plays out (I'm one of those people who can't seem to go back to SD easily after living with HD--although, Mr. Peabody notwithstanding, I have found my upscaled DVDs to 720p to be a much-appreciated way to spend the interim). Some of my willingness to buy either format will depend on the titles offered. Few of the announced titles from the Toshiba side flip my skirt at this point; I have no need to jump into the fray with my eyes closed.

    Ed
    Last edited by edtyct; 03-12-2005 at 08:55 AM.

  13. #13
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Ed,

    Well said...I just read an article in a magazine this AM at my local vet clinic that basically said that HD-DVD can be produced at an added cost of less than 10%, with existing facilities.
    The BluRay facilities would require massive initial capital investments in the area of hundreds of millions extra to meet capacity should it be the dominant format.
    This is likely to be the single biggest obstacle.
    2nd, the article stated that at max resolution, with the best audio available, an HD-DVD would still be able to hold 6 hours worth of video per disc. This does seem to make the BluRay option less attractive. The HD-DVD rep was quoted along the lines of saying "this isn't a bigger = better race" but rather, "what's the easiest, and most cost effective method of delivering an equivalent performing product that is backwards compatible to the consumer?"
    In my ignorance (I've had an HDTV for about 4 days now) this seems to make sense, but then there's the fact that many significant players have backed BluRay.
    The article predicts an agreement will be made between the two groups, to benefit everyone.
    Maybe that's the best option?

  14. #14
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    At this point, peaceful agreement, which would undoubtedly be the best option, seems like a fantasy, since both sides have dug in their heals for a fight. We should also be aware that none of the major players, including many who have pledged allegiance to either side on the ground floor, will necessarily stiff the other format. The only company that stands to remain firmly in one camp is Sony, which has all of Columbia and apparently MGM to dedicate to BluRay. As an old geezer, I find the propsect of the MGM library in HD very attractive, though Universal, Warners, and Paramount also have a history of great classic titles. Kexo, what's the magazine you were reading?

    Ed

  15. #15
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    It wasn't a hi-fi mag, it was either MacLean's (a popular business mag in Canada) or Report on Business (self explanatory)...Both were recent issues.
    Apparently Toshiba is pretty grounded in HD-DVD (being among the largest contributers to the original DVD format and HD-DVD). Dreamworks has yet to declare any endorsement, as does 20th Century Fox, though the article did say bother were being wooed heavily by BluRay (and I imagine the HD-DVD camp as well).
    Eventually someone like Blockbuster or Walmart should step in and let their opinions be known...I'm sure it would be a logistic nightmare having to order 1 film in 2 formats (if the Studios even decide to be that flexible), not to mention cater to existing DVD users, etc.
    I just checked, Sound & Vision has an article in the March 2005 issue that echoes many of the same points...good read.

  16. #16
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edtyct
    kexo,

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned, I don't think, is that the HD-DVD is easier to manufacture. It can use basically the same platform that already exists. This is a major advantage, even if it doesn't ultimately kill the competition. It's the reason why HD-DVD players will emerge first.
    You can bet there is more to this picture than just manufacturering cost. BluRay has a very impressive slew of backing companies who are well aware of BluRays strengths and weaknesses. I know for without a doubt that sony will figure out a way to make their disc cost on par with HD-DVD. They have managed to do so against every technical advantage that HD DVD has had over them since each formats announcement.



    I think that the extra storage capacity is a moot point for most viewers, who'll mostly be interested in getting their DVDs and sound at a higher resolution. The ability to store more data will not impact the primary reason that consumers will buy either format. Technical archivists will find Blu-Ray's storage capacity valuable, but who among us wants to watch extras for a week and a half just because they will fit?
    The extra capacity IS a benefit in two ways. It means that it will support lossless audio and video which takes up more room than lossy audio and video signals. The less compression used, the better both will look and sound. Also added storage means there is plenty of room for any new A/V technology that comes in the future.

    One more point: The original impetus for DVI and HDMI was the studios' desire to protect content, the same move that we have witnessed over the years with other formats. But it remains to be seen whether they are able to deny those with only analog connections the HD programming that they spent hard-earned money to enjoy. A nasty legal battle is falling into place. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the studios to be able to pull the plug on analog at their impulse without serious opposition--not to imply that they won't initiate other means to make life hard for those who pose a threat to them. It's about time these old fogeys got creative about protecting their interests and started looking for ways to adapt to, rather than scuttle, new technologies out of the chute. So far, they have been able to parlay these moments of terror into increased revenue for themselves without impaing the "rights" of others (I know there's a lot more to be said on this subject), and I'm sure that a little ingenuity will help them this time as well. Standing in the way of progress won't cut it, for anyone.
    Ed[/QUOTE]

    Ed,
    I absolutely agree with you here. I think the studios would be making a huge mistake if they didn't allow backwards compatability with the component outputs of millions and millions of digital T.V's already out in the field.

    One thing that I am acutely aware of is that the studios do not really care about consumers. What they care about is pursueing and maintaining their revenue streams, it doesn't matter what the cost is, or the damage it does to us. I think they will go as far as to kill both formats before they will allow any non copy protected input to be used.
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  17. #17
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Sir Terrence, the comments I've seen would suggest that HD-DVD could fill a disc with the highest quality audio and video formats available, and still have room for 2 more movies on each disc.
    Is this an "exaggeration" on part of the HD-DVD camp? I mean,there comes a point when 30 GB or whatever is more than enough for any of these formats, and having extra provides no benefit until an even newer format (BluRay 2, 2160 i or p or something) becomes available.
    What exactly could an HD-DVD hold in terms of minutes or hours at the highest possible resolution?

  18. #18
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Sir Terrence, the comments I've seen would suggest that HD-DVD could fill a disc with the highest quality audio and video formats available, and still have room for 2 more movies on each disc.
    Is this an "exaggeration" on part of the HD-DVD camp?
    I am not Sir TT (thank God ), but that is an exaggeration.

    From what I have read, a typical HD movie will require 25 Gigabyte of storage. Throw in high quality audio and there might not be too much room left for extras on 30 GB HD-DVDs (not to mention another movie)

  19. #19
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Sir T said: "The extra capacity IS a benefit in two ways. It means that it will support lossless audio and video which takes up more room than lossy audio and video signals. The less compression used, the better both will look and sound. Also added storage means there is plenty of room for any new A/V technology that comes in the future."

    No argument there. My point was just that the average consumer might not care all that much about the storage difference between the two formats, only that they will allow significant improvements to audio and video. Both BluRay and HD-DVD will support Dolby Digital+ and DTS-HD, as well as the lossy versions that we have now.

    Ed

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    I am not Sir TT (thank God ), but that is an exaggeration.

    From what I have read, a typical HD movie will require 25 Gigabyte of storage. Throw in high quality audio and there might not be too much room left for extras on 30 GB HD-DVDs (not to mention another movie)
    Thanks Smokey...Then we are left waiting to see if a superior format will fall to a more economic, corporate friendly format. Man, history really does repeat itself (VHS vs. Beta).

    Does anyone have any idea how many people actually have HDTV's? I seem to recall that the figure was somewhere around 10-15%, and only starting to grow...this could affect how aggressively either of these formats pushes as well. Not to mention the max capability of the TV's owned...

  21. #21
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    It all depends on the resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    I am not Sir TT (thank God ), but that is an exaggeration.

    From what I have read, a typical HD movie will require 25 Gigabyte of storage. Throw in high quality audio and there might not be too much room left for extras on 30 GB HD-DVDs (not to mention another movie)



    For 1080p performance it will require a lot of bandwidth, but most HD sets sold today, including projectors, are only capable of 720p resolution. At 720p HD-DVD has plenty of space for uncompressed image and sound. Even if BlueRay is capable of uncompressed 1080p images there's only a handful of sets now that could display it.

    DVD tech when it was released, was as easy as plugging it into your existing TV. HD-DVD & BlueRay will require a multi-thousand dollar investment by the consumer to realize it's potential. Just from this standpoint alone these higher-rez formats are up against really hard acceptance resistance.
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  22. #22
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    DVD tech when it was released, was as easy as plugging it into your existing TV. HD-DVD & BlueRay will require a multi-thousand dollar investment by the consumer to realize it's potential. Just from this standpoint alone these higher-rez formats are up against really hard acceptance resistance.
    I think Geoffcin really nailed it here, and this is why I wouldn't be surprised to see HD-DVD win out, despite it all it gives up to BluRay.

  23. #23
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Thanks Kexo, but;

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I think Geoffcin really nailed it here, and this is why I wouldn't be surprised to see HD-DVD win out, despite it all it gives up to BluRay.


    I really feel that there's going to be no winners in this race at all. When DVD came out it was a revolution. One that was, and is, very affordable. HD-DVD & BlueRay, for all the hype and mirrors, bring absolutely NOTHING to the table besides their higher resolution. It might have been sellable if the resolution of DVD were bad, but DVD's 480p is pretty darn good, and Dolby EX & DTE-ES are good audio formats too.

    My money is no these formats to spend a decade trying to establish themselves with no clear winner, or even anything that could be remotely called acceptance. We have a precedent to look at called SACD/DVD-Audio.

    Joe consumer is the guy that's going to make the call on these higher-rez formats, as we A/V junkies are just a tiny percentage of the equation when it come to consumer electronics.
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  24. #24
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Man, history really does repeat itself (VHS vs. Beta).
    What is bothersome here is why manufactures decide to take different routes. Couldn't they all agree with one format and go from there. There are already enough confusion with the current technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Even if BlueRay is capable of uncompressed 1080p images there's only a handful of sets now that could display it.
    As I am sure you are well aware, 1080p format doesn't come from the disc, but rather the player (or the TV with internal decoders). So bandwidth might not be an issue here.

    But I agree that it probably be a few years before it will be in mass market. Price dropping of HD displays will definitely be in favor of sooner than later. Most tube HDTVs are already selling under $1000

  25. #25
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    What is bothersome here is why manufactures decide to take different routes. Couldn't they all agree with one format and go from there. There are already enough confusion with the current technology
    There is huge fee's you get from liscensing the technology to other manufacturers. It is also a revenue stream that last for years(Sony and Philips are still getting paid for the CD as are the makers of the DVD format). Whoever wins, get's that income for years to come. When the enconomy turns sour, this could save your company from ruin, or at least keep you afloat thrrough it.



    As I am sure you are well aware, 1080p format doesn't come from the disc, but rather the player (or the TV with internal decoders). So bandwidth might not be an issue here.

    But I agree that it probably be a few years before it will be in mass market. Price dropping of HD displays will definitely be in favor of sooner than later. Most tube HDTVs are already selling under $1000
    I think BluRay larger pipeline(40mbps) gives it an advantage because it allow more gentle compression to the video, and up to 24/192khz audio in 7.1. This can be nothing but a plus for both audio and video.
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