Vizio going head to head with Sony & Samsung

[Smokey]

Although we are at end cycle of most of these models, I just came cross the March issue of ConsumerReports magazine which they evaluated bunch of LCDs from 55 to 32 inch. And in term of picture quality Vizio along with Sony and Samsung top the chart.

As you can see from the rankings below, Vizio received "Excellent" picture quality rating in every screen size catagory it was in. I'm not a Vizio fan boy, but have to say a job well done.

LCDs are ranked by picture quality in HD and SD mode from EXCELLENT (4 stars), VERY GOOD (3 stars), Good (2 star) to FAIR (1 star) rating. TVs with *asterisk received only 3 stars in SD mode.

-----------52-55 INCH---------

Excellent rating:
Sony KDL-52NX800
Samsung LN55C650
Samsung UN55C5000
Samsung UN55C6500
Vizio truLED XVT553SV
Sanyo DP52440
Samsung LN52C530
*Vizio VF550M

Very Good rating:
Hitachi L55S604
Sanyo DP55360
Toshiba 55UX600U
Mitsubishi LT-55265
Philips 55PFL57055D

Good rating:
Mitsubishi LT-55164
Philips 55PFL7705D

------------46-47 INCH-----------

Excellent rating:
*Samsung LN46C630
Hitachi L46S604
Vizio SV47XVT
Sony KDL 46EX600
*JVC LT46P510
Sharp LC-46D78UN
Toshiba 46G300U

Very Good rating:
LG47LD450
Sony KDL-46EX700
Philips 47PFL6704D
Mitsubishi LT-46164
Sharp LC-46LE820UN

Fair rating:
Philips 46PFL5505D
Magnavox 46MF440B

------------40 and 42 INCH---------

Excellent rating:
Sony KDL-40EX5000
*Samsung LN40C530
Vizio truLED SV22XVT
*Sharp LC-40D78UN

Very Good rating:
Samsung UN40C5000
LG 42LD520
Pansonic TC-L42U25
Panasonic TC-42U22
LG 42LE5500
Hitachi LE42S704
Vizio TruLED XVT423SV
JVC LT-42P510
Sanyo D42840
Panasonic TC-42D2
Philips 40PFL5705D
Sharp LC40LE810UN

Good rating:
Hair HL40XSL2
Mitsubishi LT-40164
Westinghouse TX-42F810

Fair rating:
Magnavox 40MF430B
Sylvania LC407SS1

-------------37 INCH-----------

Excellent rating:
Samsung LN37C550
Vizio edgeLED XVT373SV

Very Good rating:
Toshiba 37E200U
Panasonic TC-L37C22

Good rating:
Magnavox 37MD350B

-----------32 INCH----------

Excellent rating:
Samsung LN32C530
Vizio edgeLED M320NV
Vizio E322VL
Sony KDL-32EX308

Very Good rating:
LG32LE5400
LG 32LD520
LG 32LE5300
Panasonic TC-L32X2
Samsung UN32C4000
Sony KDL-32EX308
Sony KDL-32EX40B
Sanyo DP32670
Insignia NS-32E57)A11
Sharp LC-32DV28UT

Good rating:
Philips 32PFL4505D
Westinghouse LD-3255VX

Fair rating:
Magnovax 32MD350B

[pixelthis]

Revenge is a dish best served cold(thanks Mr SPOCK).
I have been engaged in a running gun battle with a few snobs on this board (although it
has gotten quiet as of late) about the quality of Vizio sets.
Great picture, inexpensive(but not "cheap"), and great quality.
Not a "fanboy" but this company is doing something right. HAVE an LG now, but still have
access to my two previous Vizios, one of which is five years old.
THANKS SMOKE, when you finally buy a HDTV two days before you croak, it will
probably be a Vizio.

[BadAssJazz]

Good to know.

I'm considering picking up a Vizio to replace the folk's EDTV plasma set in their bedroom. The EDTV is still going strong, but what the hell, might as well upgrade anyway so that they can finally experience full HDTV without having to go downstairs to the living room.

And I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't like the Samsung fiasco of a year or so ago. One of the consumer-oriented review sites raved and raved about the PQ of Samsung, putting them in the uppercrust of the best of the best flatscreens.

Unfortunately, they completely overlooked the QC and Customer Care aspects of Samsung. (Not that this particular defect would have necessarily shown up in the brief day or two that it took the authors to audition the TV and write their review.) Those Samsungs started blowing up left and right with disturbing regularity after only a couple of months of use. Once the purchasers of said Samsungs started swarming the internet with word of those routine internal cracks, it was too late.

Vizio, I hope you got it right. You're about to get some of my hard-earned money.

[bobsticks]

And I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't like the Samsung fiasco of a year or so ago. One of the consumer-oriented review sites raved and raved about the PQ of Samsung, putting them in the uppercrust of the best of the best flatscreens.

Unfortunately, they completely overlooked the QC and Customer Care aspects of Samsung. (Not that this particular defect would have necessarily shown up in the brief day or two that it took the authors to audition the TV and write their review.) Those Samsungs started blowing up left and right with disturbing regularity after only a couple of months of use. Once the purchasers of said Samsungs started swarming the internet with word of those routine internal cracks, it was too late.

Yes.

That Vizio has continued to spur competition with mid-tier brands is a good thing for the average consumer up and until the point it effects quality across the board. Conceptually Vizio is every bit as important as Runco and certainly more impactful to the Average Joe.

That said, I have yet to see a Vizio unit thatwould score "excellent" or "exceptional" marks. They may well represent a decent value for the money but they hardly represent the pinnacle of technological advancement or a focus on quality control technique. I question the criteria and standrads of the evaluators.

[Hyfi]

Thanks Smokey. I am about to purchase a lower priced 32" LCD for my in-laws and the list gives me a starting point.

They won't really appreciate quality but it may get willed back to me later

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Yes.

That Vizio has continued to spur competition with mid-tier brands is a good thing for the average consumer up and until the point it effects quality across the board. Conceptually Vizio is every bit as important as Runco and certainly more impactful to the Average Joe.

I agree with this statement. Vizio has certainly moved up from a third tier brand to a second tier one. It is also well know that the majors have largely conceded the lower tiers to them because the margins are too slim, and the field much too crowded.

That said, I have yet to see a Vizio unit thatwould score "excellent" or "exceptional" marks. They may well represent a decent value for the money but they hardly represent the pinnacle of technological advancement or a focus on quality control technique. I question the criteria and standrads of the evaluators.

It would be VERY difficult for Vizio to score consistently in the excellent or exceptional area, as it would require them to use more expensive internal parts, much tighter QC, and charge a much higher price. In spite of their progress, I still could not recommend a single one of their sets for critical viewing. It is well known that Consumer Reports does not use as rigorous testing methods as say The Digital testing center in Hollywood.

I take consumer reports with a grain of salt, and just wait for my yearly pilgrimage to the Digital Testing Center. The folks there know how to test a LCD, Plasma, and DLP set.

[pixelthis]

I agree with this statement. Vizio has certainly moved up from a third tier brand to a second tier one. It is also well know that the majors have largely conceded the lower tiers to them because the margins are too slim, and the field much too crowded.



It would be VERY difficult for Vizio to score consistently in the excellent or exceptional area, as it would require them to use more expensive internal parts, much tighter QC, and charge a much higher price. In spite of their progress, I still could not recommend a single one of their sets for critical viewing. It is well known that Consumer Reports does not use as rigorous testing methods as say The Digital testing center in Hollywood.

I take consumer reports with a grain of salt, and just wait for my yearly pilgrimage to the Digital Testing Center. The folks there know how to test a LCD, Plasma, and DLP set.

AND just who funds that "testing center"?

[frenchmon]

Well...I have a Vizio 47 inch... the LED-LCD.. their newest one.. and the picture is outstanding....thats all that counts in my book.

[Woochifer]

This might be the last list you can ever use for assessing your future HDTV purchases. Vizio's joining the brigade in eliminating the analog audio outputs on their new models.

Among the various publications that conduct TV tests, CR is probably the least transparent in that they never release any of the technical data or indicate how the test units are calibrated or even what thresholds they use to establish the rank orders.

Another point that I would bring up, especially with LCDs, is how they perform off-axis. With LCDs, PVA sets have a narrower viewing angle than the more expensive IPS displays, which affects how well their color accuracy holds up when viewing off-axis (visible color shifting can occur as little as 10 degrees off-axis).

From my understanding, Panasonic and Hitachi use IPS panels exclusively, and LG uses them in most models. Samsung and Sony also deploy IPS panels in varying amounts. Not sure about the others.

[Smokey]

That said, I have yet to see a Vizio unit that would score "excellent" or "exceptional" marks.

How about winning CNET's Best of CES award in the TVs category...

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-32254_1-20027220-283.html

It is well known that Consumer Reports does not use as rigorous testing methods as say The Digital testing center in Hollywood.

I have never heard of that testing center.

But either way to be fair here CR tested over 75 LCDs, 20 3-D TVs (9 Plasma and 11 LCD) and 22 Plasma TVs in just one issue alone. Where can you go to get such a variety of information on different type of TVs.

And who else is going to test Joe6pac brands like Sylvania, Magnovox, Westinghouse and Philips as other test sites don't bother with these brands.

BTW, welcome back

From my understanding, Panasonic and Hitachi use IPS panels exclusively, and LG uses them in most models. Samsung and Sony also deploy IPS panels in varying amounts.

IPS panels seem to suffer from lack of deep black as it is evident from Panasonic and LG LCD reviews. That is why non of them received excellent rating. But as you said they have better off axis viewing angle.

I think Sony and Samsung use PVA/MVA panels as they have much deeper blacks. But not so good off axis viewing angle.

[bobsticks]

Well...I have a Vizio 47 inch... the LED-LCD.. their newest one.. and the picture is outstanding....thats all that counts in my book.

Ultimately, that's often all that counts...

This might be the last list you can ever use for assessing your future HDTV purchases. Vizio's joining the brigade in eliminating the analog audio outputs on their new models.

I lol'd...

How about winning CNET's Best of CES award in the TVs category...(?)

After reading the article it's pretty clear that the award was given to an unreleased prototype viewed in a less-than-optimal situation with little to no formal testing.

[bobsticks]

It would be VERY difficult for Vizio to score consistently in the excellent or exceptional area, as it would require them to use more expensive internal parts, much tighter QC, and charge a much higher price. In spite of their progress, I still could not recommend a single one of their sets for critical viewing.

Yeah, that's sorta been my observation...Vizio has been making great strides but they're no Sony Bravia, Fujitsu, Runco or the long lamented Pioneer Kuro Elite...and that's okay. I'm told that for what you pay you get a decent sturdy set that, when calibrated properly, will produce an acceptable picture under most circumstances. They're certainly not "reference grade" but neither do I read consistent reports of mass failings either.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Smokey]How about winning CNET's Best of CES award in the TVs category...

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-32254_1-20027220-283.html

I have never heard of that testing center.

Its the one that thinks up BS tests to slam the competition

But either way to be fair here CR tested over 75 LCDs, 20 3-D TVs (9 Plasma and 11 LCD) and 22 Plasma TVs in just one issue alone. Where can you go to get such a variety of information on different type of TVs.

WHATS "FAIR" got to do with it?
The trick is to pick a "test" that has nothing to do with real world conditions, that your competition is handicapped in from the start.
LIKE so called "motion resolution".



And who else is going to test Joe6pac brands like Sylvania, Magnovox, Westinghouse and Philips as other test sites don't bother with these brands.

BTW, welcome back

Yep, vacations over.

CR does real world testing, you can stick your nose in the air and say that its not
"high q" stuff that does well in their testing, but truth be told the stuff that does well in their testing is usually good for most. And the reference sets are only winners at the edge of performance, where it only matters in 50,000 + systems.
NOT EVERYBODY has a science project composed of antique CRT's and scalers
that are outdone in the "chip" scalers in most sets these days.
Or five thousand dollar plasma sets that were obsolete tech outta the door.
BE NICE if all or even most could have reference gear, but until that happens there
is consumer reports for those concerned with real world capabilities.

[Woochifer]

How about winning CNET's Best of CES award in the TVs category...

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-32254_1-20027220-283.html

Problem is that CES awards tends to lean more towards features than actual performance. Just read the write-up, do you see any mention whatsoever of picture quality?

But either way to be fair here CR tested over 75 LCDs, 20 3-D TVs (9 Plasma and 11 LCD) and 22 Plasma TVs in just one issue alone. Where can you go to get such a variety of information on different type of TVs.

It doesn't matter how many sets they cull together if the tests themselves are not transparent, with no documentation of the test results or calibration procedures. Other test sites will at least present a full summary of the technical data, so people can judge for themselves.

They purport themselves as objective, yet CR has a history of altering and making exceptions in its testing procedures. For example, the modified mic setup they used for testing Bose speakers, or not recommending the iPhone 4 due to reception attenuation that they observed on an antenna test they do not use on any other cell phones.

And who else is going to test Joe6pac brands like Sylvania, Magnovox, Westinghouse and Philips as other test sites don't bother with these brands.

The problem with rating off-brand TVs is that will not necessarily be consistent from one production run to another, because much of the time they are using whatever surplus components are available at any given time. The panel used on the TV that CR tested might not be the same one that other units of the same model use.

IPS panels seem to suffer from lack of deep black as it is evident from Panasonic and LG LCD reviews. That is why non of them received excellent rating. But as you said they have better off axis viewing angle.

I think Sony and Samsung use PVA/MVA panels as they have much deeper blacks. But not so good off axis viewing angle.

But, what's the good of deeper blacks if the color accuracy and contrast start visibly diminishing as little as 10 degrees off-axis? Unless you watch the TV by yourself all the time, the off-axis viewing is a very important consideration.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

AND just who funds that "testing center"?

The film studios do.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have never heard of that testing center.

You probably would never have if I had not mentioned it. It is supported by the film industry for the film industry. This is how the industry gets its information on the performance of consumer televisions. This is where they test 3D, new compression technologies, professional studio and broadcast monitors, and various other audio and video technologies.

[Smokey]

It doesn't matter how many sets they cull together if the tests themselves are not transparent, with no documentation of the test results or calibration procedures.

They prorbaly follow the same procedure as a normal consumer would do. Which is to unpack it, optomize its performance via user menu and then compare it with a reference HDTV. They show a photo of their lab in the magazine issue and looks like they set up LCD of same screen size so they can see all of them at same time and same distance.

The problem with rating off-brand TVs is that will not necessarily be consistent from one production run to another, because much of the time they are using whatever surplus components are available at any given time.

That is true and CR test confirm it. Those four models consistenly ranked at the bottom in every size catagory. And those four models are made by Funai.

But, what's the good of deeper blacks if the color accuracy and contrast start visibly diminishing as little as 10 degrees off-axis? Unless you watch the TV by yourself all the time, the off-axis viewing is a very important consideration.

That is definitely consideration when buying a new LCD. I rather have better picture quality over better angle viewing since I be the one sitting in the sweet spot

[Woochifer]

They prorbaly follow the same procedure as a normal consumer would do. Which is to unpack it, optomize its performance via user menu and then compare it with a reference HDTV. They show a photo of their lab in the magazine issue and looks like they set up LCD of same screen size so they can see all of them at same time and same distance.

But, that's speculation. You really don't know what they actually do, because they don't tell you.

They don't document anything, or tell you what criteria they use to distinguish "excellent" from "very good." That IMO is a fatal flaw, because they're asking the readers to just trust the results because they are "objective" and "unbiased." My experience over the years points to many instances where they altered or doctored their procedures in order to reach certain conclusions.

And other instances of just sheer incompetence, like when they published these sensational headlines proclaiming that nearly all infant car seats failed their tests. Only when other experts challenged their findings and published their own test data did CR admit that their entire test was done incorrectly. The lack of transparency doesn't help, and their scare mongering actually led to huge drops in sales for several car seat manufacturers.

That is true and CR test confirm it. Those four models consistenly ranked at the bottom in every size catagory. And those four models are made by Funai.

IIRC, Westinghouse is not made by Funai. And the CR test doesn't confirm anything, because my point was about inconsistency in the component sourcing. You have no idea if a different production run will yield better or worse picture quality.

That is definitely consideration when buying a new LCD. I rather have better picture quality over better angle viewing since I be the one sitting in the sweet spot

Hope you got your head in a vise -- doesn't take much head movement to shift 10 degrees off-axis! Besides, you should just admit it -- you'd rather take PVA over IPS because IT'S CHEAPER! With that settled, WHEN THE HELL WILL YOU BUY A TV? Time's running out on your essential analog audio outputs!

[pixelthis]

Companies have been outsourcing forever, and I fail to see as to why this is a big deal,
especialy with ISO available.
A lot of these middle class types have not gotten near a factory, but any factory
worth its salt adheres to ISO(International standards organization, I believe) .
You can count on the products of such factories meeting specs. THE ISO
officer where I worked outranked supervisors. We had to get enterprise software, just in time stuff. It was a big deal.
THE fact that a lot of "generic" monitors outsource is a red herring, this is common industry practice, everybody does it to a certain extent, even the big boys.
Great thing about the free market. YOU CAN BOTTOM FEED, which, with declining
prices saves less and less, or you can go with the next line of quality, or you can
go high line, which, IMHO, is a complete waste of time and money, as you get a
very tiny sliver of improvement for the price.
THE DAY where you could rent an established name, like WESTINGHOUSE, and
order-engineer it are just about over, BTW.
With name brands cutting prices deep, profit margins will be slim, or non-existent
OF COURSE the earthquake could change things, nuclear meltdown could change them even more..