Blueray - PS3 or Dedicated BR Player?

[L.J.]

Given the price and the multimedia/streaming/web browsing capabilities of the PS3 I need someone to talk me out of going that route.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'm reading some posts on the AVS forums and apparently there's been a lot of debate and discussion as to whether or not a difference can be heard between a high bit-rate DTS track and a DTS-MA track, for instance. Some people fault the PS3 for not being able to output the lossless formats in a Bitstream, and others say the PS3 does the decoding with LPCM just fine and with great results. The question I have is... do the stand-alone players use Bitstream, PCM or do you have the option to use either/or?

[Rich-n-Texas]

...Bad thing is, I get no Dolby TrueHD light (or any indication whatsoever) that my receiver is seeing a lossless format.

The DTS-HD MA light in those receivers really should be labeled, "Look at me! I have little patience and no sales resistance!

Edit: I think this was covered in an LJ3 thread somewhere, huh?

[L.J.]

I'm reading some posts on the AVS forums and apparently there's been a lot of debate and discussion as to whether or not a difference can be heard between a high bit-rate DTS track and a DTS-MA track, for instance.

Full bitrate 1.5m DTS sounds good. DTSMA sounds good.....Debate over

Some people fault the PS3 for not being able to output the lossless formats in a Bitstream, and others say the PS3 does the decoding with LPCM just fine and with great results. The question I have is... do the stand-alone players use Bitstream, PCM or do you have the option to use either/or?

Bitstream or not, the decoding has to be done somewhere. It's not like your loosing anything if it's done in the player vs the AVR. Does the AVR has some super powers that allows it to pull more info from the disc? The info is decoded/converted to PCM and sent to the your AVR for bass management and all that good stuff. Bitstream is the same thing. The raw signal is sent to your AVR and it's decoded/converted to PCM for bass management and all that good stuff. Downside of bitstream is you loose audio for PIP and all that other "extra" stuff.

What's the big deal about seeing MPCM on there AVR display vs seeing TrueHD or DTSMA?

[Rich-n-Texas]

That's encouraging.

Been doing lots of auditions - I'm weighing the pros and cons of using a receiver or just buying a mid-fi pre-pro and selling off my integrated. I've got some other hobbies I'd like to start again too. Finally ordered the 1080p projector last week though...

Thought you were going to slip this one by huh? CONGRATS!!!
Watchya get watchya get???

[GMichael]

Thought you were going to slip this one by huh? CONGRATS!!!
Watchya get watchya get???

He did good!!!

[bobsticks]

I'm looking forward to a vid of Kex in front of a massive screen doing Rock Band to In Flames

Chino Morena on crack...that one still makes me laugh.

[pixelthis]

Looks like you stumbled into a nice piece of gear.!

Have you been able to compare the higher bit-rate DTS or Dolby audio files with any standard DVD audio tracks with the lower bitrates? I'm curious to know how significant the higher bitrate improvement is on these old formats. I know with some audio files, mp3, wma, .ogg etc, after a certain bit rate, improvements are almost inaudible but file size increases dramatically. IE, 192 mp3's sound nearly identical to 320 kbps, and of course neither are as good as lossless FLAC. But the difference between 128 kpbs and 192 kpbs is huge. Just curious if you could make a comparison here?

I'll be living on core DTS or whatever for awile until I find a new receiver or processor I like with HDMI. Then I can go lossless.

I was in BB looking at some Sony and Samsung stand alones and the PS3. I would say each had its advantages in terms of picture quality and picking a clear winner was virtually impossible. I didn't try any DVD's though. This was in a light controlled environment on a reasonably calibrated set not running torch mode too. I like the idea of analog outs on the Sony/Samsung players, but processing power of the PS3 is more than those two combined. Given the price and the multimedia/streaming/web browsing capabilities of the PS3 I need someone to talk me out of going that route.

Nicer than I THOUGHT it would be, after hearing about slow load times,
crappy upconversion, I was worried, but after seeing it installed at my friends house....
Anyway the diff between DVD and blu is astonishing to say the least.
Not sure how this meter works, but the "worst" blu disc( before the devil knows you're dead clocked in at between 21 and thirty, mosty the low twenties.
Most have been in the mid to upper thirties, a few peaked in the fourties.
My collection of sheryl crow vids(with a lossless soundtrack and flawless pic) come in at between seven and eight.
Bedazzled, a minor classic, come in at four and a half and six
I have a high bitrate version of Charlies angels(who doesnt?)
and it gets the best results, the "high" bit translates out to 8 and 9 mbs,
which is half of devil, which is mostly a talkie.
However I must say that if you can find one of these and have an upconverter, (I think I saw one for five bucks) the picture, already
great in SD, is really fantastic, not so much the resolution(hich you wont get any more of) but the incredible color and amazing blacks I have noticed in the Blu format.
IN OTHER WORDS you dont get any extra res "upconverting" but you do seem to get a larger color palette and certainly much greater black
level, which makes the trip worthwhile.
BUT BEING BASICALLY A computer the same old axiome applies, garbage in, garbage out.
I HAD FORGOTTEN THO, just how low the bitrate was on DVD,
wish I had one on my digital cable box

[kexodusc]

I'm looking forward to a vid of Kex in front of a massive screen doing Rock Band to In Flames

Chino Morena on crack...that one still makes me laugh.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/c...s&oid=63068239

This is the jobber I got - these things are rare in stores, and there were only 2 1080p capable projectors I could demo with any frequency. An Optoma and Epson. For all intents and purposes I found them roughly equal in performance - that is neither had anything extra-special the other didn't have and both delivered great pictures...A few months back when I started looking around the Optoma was a bit cheaper, but things changed in July when I started really shopping - I got a better discount, warranty, free bulb and $300 mail-in rebate with the Epson so my frugal nature took over.

Now...looks like Aug 14 or so for a move-in date, so it's gonna be late August at best before I can play with it
House is coming along though...

[GMichael]

Looking good Kex. When is the party?

[JSE]

Now...looks like Aug 14 or so for a move-in date, so it's gonna be late August at best before I can play with it
House is coming along though...

Nice House Kex.

That's one hell of a sprinkler system you've got there in the back yard!

JSE

[GMichael]

Nice House Kex.

That's one hell of a sprinkler system you've got there in the back yard!

JSE

That's going to be what we call here in PA, a "turkey mound." Not sure where that name came from.

[kexodusc]

Nice House Kex.

That's one hell of a sprinkler system you've got there in the back yard!

JSE

Sprinkler system? Those are port tubes for the subwoofer I built into the lower level...

[JSE]

Sprinkler system? Those are port tubes for the subwoofer I built into the lower level...

Good Lordy! Don't tell the neighbors. Let them "experience" it first!

[GMichael]

Don't let anyone flush while a movie is on.

It could make a bit of a mess.

[kexodusc]

Good Lordy! Don't tell the neighbors. Let them "experience" it first!

They'll experience it as soon as I hit the "brown note"

[bobsticks]

Lookin' good Kex. Fast too, it seems like just yesterday you were in the "talkin'"stages. Will the basement be the mancave, home of the projector and system?

BTW, make sure after sprinkler/subwoofer installation they add the deck. They forgot to on JSE's abode which is, in truth, how he hurt his knees. Nasty fall that, tennis injury may ass...

[kexodusc]

Lookin' good Kex. Fast too, it seems like just yesterday you were in the "talkin'"stages. Will the basement be the mancave, home of the projector and system?

BTW, make sure after sprinkler/subwoofer installation they add the deck. They forgot to on JSE's abode which is, in truth, how he hurt his knees. Nasty fall that, tennis injury may ass...

Thanks BS! (...mwa ha ha ha)

Yeah the deck's on the menu for sure. Nothing too big since we can't use it 5 months of the year but I think it's a 14' x 18' piece.

Here in Canada it seems a lot more homes finish off the basement as a 2nd floor, rather than build 2 stories or large slabs. I haven't lived in every state but from what I can recall about ND, GA, and ME, that was more of an exception than the rule - think the winters have something to do with building down instead of up. So we've completed the basement with a few bedrooms and yes, my 16' x 19' mancave for the projector.

With the Olympics on my mind I'm having a local guy rig up a sign for me -
"This screen dims for no earthly king"

Doesn't take these guys long, that's for sure. After all the time it took me to do the renos on my last house I feel so unaccomplished.

[L.J.]

Lookin' good Kex.......So I'm assuming your having a BIG AR partay once your all finished huh

[kexodusc]

Lookin' good Kex.......So I'm assuming your having a BIG AR partay once your all finished huh

I dunno, I've seen the mess you guys leave at AR partays

I know that's not gonna stop you though.

[Groundbeef]

Hey, nice looking house.

My wife and I built about 6 years ago (In August). About the only advice I can give you is to visit the site OFTEN. Preferably when there are workers present. The reasons are:

1. Make sure you are getting what you specified. I discovered our plumber had installed one (1) 50gal water heater. Our plans called for two (2) 40 gallon heaters. Had I not been keeping an eye on on it, it could have been a disaster. The gas out (vent) as installed was too small for 2 heaters. Luckilly the drywall wasn't up so they just tore out the 3" pipe and put in 5"pipe. I have 3 daughters and a wife, hence the dual heaters. Inline heating was too expensive.

2. Keeps the workers to a mininium of "shortcuts". If you don't like or understand what they are doing ask. Remember, ITS YOUR HOUSE.

3. Do walk throughs with the subcontractors. If you don't like something, make them fix it BEFORE they get their draw. Also, make sure that all wires are run to all rooms. Even if you don't think you will need a phone in each bedroom, the next owner might! We bought our first house, and it had 2 (TWO) Phone jacks in the entire house! They probably saved $50?

4. I don't know about Canada, but get LIEN WAIVERS from the subs as well. Basically this says that "Yes, we HAVE been paid". Without a doubt you are dealing with a 100% honest contractor, but if they don't pay the subs, they can later sue you, and hold your home hostage. In effect you will be paying them twice!

5. Have fun.

[GMichael]

Hey, nice looking house.

My wife and I built about 6 years ago (In August). About the only advice I can give you is to visit the site OFTEN. Preferably when there are workers present. The reasons are:

1. Make sure you are getting what you specified. I discovered our plumber had installed one (1) 50gal water heater. Our plans called for two (2) 40 gallon heaters. Had I not been keeping an eye on on it, it could have been a disaster. The gas out (vent) as installed was too small for 2 heaters. Luckilly the drywall wasn't up so they just tore out the 3" pipe and put in 5"pipe. I have 3 daughters and a wife, hence the dual heaters. Inline heating was too expensive.

2. Keeps the workers to a mininium of "shortcuts". If you don't like or understand what they are doing ask. Remember, ITS YOUR HOUSE.

3. Do walk throughs with the subcontractors. If you don't like something, make them fix it BEFORE they get their draw. Also, make sure that all wires are run to all rooms. Even if you don't think you will need a phone in each bedroom, the next owner might! We bought our first house, and it had 2 (TWO) Phone jacks in the entire house! They probably saved $50?

4. I don't know about Canada, but get LIEN WAIVERS from the subs as well. Basically this says that "Yes, we HAVE been paid". Without a doubt you are dealing with a 100% honest contractor, but if they don't pay the subs, they can later sue you, and hold your home hostage. In effect you will be paying them twice!

5. Have fun.

Amen...

[kexodusc]

Pains me to say it, but I've heard it all before from many other people, which tells me these are all too common issues.

We ended up doing a turn-key arrangement with a 6 page schedule in the contract of construction specifics, instead of typical progress draws - every stupid little detail we could think of - the laws here state we can sue for specific performance if he doesn't satisfy the terms or code if we've omitted it. That said, I'm sure we didn't capture everything, but it's generally the preferred method up here.

Good call on the Lien waivers too - we had some advice before hand and demanded that as well. Actually, most of the banks we talked to wouldn't fund a mortgage without these. Seems like it's becoming standard practice now - which tells me that post-sale lien suits were happening too often.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

K-Swiss...Classics

K-swiss classic...I love'em!!

[Groundbeef]

Pains me to say it, but I've heard it all before from many other people, which tells me these are all too common issues.

We ended up doing a turn-key arrangement with a 6 page schedule in the contract of construction specifics, instead of typical progress draws - every stupid little detail we could think of - the laws here state we can sue for specific performance if he doesn't satisfy the terms or code if we've omitted it. That said, I'm sure we didn't capture everything, but it's generally the preferred method up here.

Good call on the Lien waivers too - we had some advice before hand and demanded that as well. Actually, most of the banks we talked to wouldn't fund a mortgage without these. Seems like it's becoming standard practice now - which tells me that post-sale lien suits were happening too often.

The law is all well and good. However, I'm more of the "Fix it before it's a problem" rather than the "I'll sue you after the job is done" kinda guy.

For example, if the water heater issue hadn't been done, it could have been a $5000 mistake, not a 1 day labor mistake for the sub. Everyone was happy. And the job was done correctly.

And the lien waivers are for YOUR protection. I don't worry about the bank (they do that pretty well!!!). The issue is after the title is drawn up and filed, then the subs go in and "sue" for unpaid wages/labor. Without a Lien Waiver, it is VERY difficult to prove if/when the sub was paid.

It can be a hassle, but well worth it.

(Full disclosure here...I was personal friends with the builder, and had sold him material for 8 years prior to hiring him. I wasn't very concerned about them, and 80% of his work was done in house vs subs. But the bank did get lien waivers, and I signed off on all draws.)