Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 127
  1. #1
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ozarks
    Posts
    3,959

    Is 720P format dead?

    720P format is one of HD protocol when it was established. But with 720p TV on market disappearing and only available on elcheapos and smaller TVs, one wonder if 720P is a dying dinosaur.

    The argument was that 720p is progressive and better for sport and high action programs, but with 1080P capable TVs, that argument is not true anymore. 720p was the preferred format for ABC and Fox network, but I am not sure if they have moved on to 1080 format or not.

  2. #2
    Suspended markw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Noo Joisey. Youse got a problem wit dat?
    Posts
    4,659
    I know broadcast tv can do1080 I, but can they do 1080 P?

    AFAICT, only Bluray does 1080 P, but things do change.

  3. #3
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,777
    As far as I know, no Broadcaster is sending 1080P. I thought I read somewhere that this is due to compression issues at the local carriers end. Don't quote me on that though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Festus
    ...But with 720p TV on market disappearing and only available on elcheapos and smaller TVs, one wonder if 720P is a dying dinosaur.
    this one's got pixeldumbass written all over it!

  4. #4
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Nobody in broadcast is doing 1080p for several reason. The first, bandwidth requirements. Broadcasters are under pressure from the cell phone and broadband concerns, as more wireless products hit the market. The push towards digital compressed the broadcast bandwidth as it is, but now the wireless concerns are pressing for even more bandwidth, and are likely to get it sooner or later.

    Second reason infrastructure. 1080p takes up quite a bit of storage even when compressed. Most television stations have upgraded their storage needs to accommodate MPEG-2, but not much more than that. They have built their infrastructure from the transmitters, fiber optics, to video encoders to handle either 720p or 1080i, but not 1080p. The move to digital television has cost broadcasters a bundle, and with the economic downturn, and consistent loss of viewers and advertiser money, it is not likely many of them can afford a complete infrastructure upgrade to 1080p.

    720p and 1080i in consumer disc, television, and projector technology is pretty much done. It was a way for manufacturers to transition up from 480p to 1080p when the processing chips for 1080p had not been developed, or where super expensive and in short supply. HD DVD nor Blu ray was around when 720p and 1080i sets were selling like hot cakes, but when they both were introduced, the industry pushed towards 1080p for home video. The next push up in resolution will be towards 4K.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  5. #5
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    tuscaloosa
    Posts
    5,528

    Cool

    Smaller size tv sets are still 720p, because it doesnt make that much difference
    with the smaller screen.
    BUT I SAW A 1080P THE OTHER DAY, 32", so its just a matter of time.
    1080p tv and 1080i broadcast is a match made in heaven, because the TV just has to
    deinterlace, no conversion.
    THE PIC is almost as good as BLU-RAY(but not quite).
    720p used to have its place, but with 1080p getting cheaper and cheaper, sooner it will
    no longer be a savings to make a 720p in any size, and that will be IT.
    AS FOR 1080P broadcast, why?
    Todays TV sets can do an exelent job of deinterlacing 1080i, so you really dont need it.
    SO YES, 720P IS dead
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  6. #6
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    tuscaloosa
    Posts
    5,528

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    As far as I know, no Broadcaster is sending 1080P. I thought I read somewhere that this is due to compression issues at the local carriers end. Don't quote me on that though.

    this one's got pixeldumbass written all over it!
    Wouldnt quote you on anything, except maybe the going price of crack ho's and
    anti-depression drugs.
    The DISH has advertised 1080p in its PPV offerings, but this is not a regular thing.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  7. #7
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,777
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Wouldnt quote you on anything, except maybe the going price of crack ho's and
    anti-depression drugs.
    The DISH has advertised 1080p in its PPV offerings, but this is not a regular thing.
    Please. You're an ex-cop. You know damn well what the price of Prozac is.

  8. #8
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ozarks
    Posts
    3,959
    Thanks everybody for chiming in. Donít have HD yet, but I figured that broadcasting 1080p does occupy alot of bandwidth. SirTT said that two main reason being bandwidth requirements and TV stationís lack of storage.

    But Pixelthis had a good point as to why broadcast 1080p signal at all when 1080i can be deinterlaced and converted to 1080p by TV or cable box. Just like when DVD player signal was converted to 480p by Tv or DVD player, couldnít the same thing be done with 1080i broadcast signal where 1080p broadcast would not be necessary.

    Iím figuring that film base 1080i broadcasting (where the source is 24 frame per second) can be converted to 1080p by interlacing or 3:2 pull down method by the TV/cable box without loosng any [field/frame] information. But the question is can conversion can be done correctly with non film base 1080i materials?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Smaller size tv sets are still 720p, because it doesnt make that much difference with the smaller screen. BUT I SAW A 1080P THE OTHER DAY, 32", so its just a matter of time.
    The time is already here. If you go to Bestbuy web site, over 75% of their 32-37 inch TVs are 1080p TVs and most of them are under $600.
    Last edited by Smokey; 06-05-2010 at 11:00 PM.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    tuscaloosa
    Posts
    5,528

    Cool

    [QUOTE=Smokey]Thanks everybody for chiming in. Donít have HD yet, but I figured that broadcasting 1080p does occupy alot of bandwidth. SirTT said that two main reason being bandwidth requirements and TV stationís lack of storage.

    But Pixelthis had a good point as to why broadcast 1080p signal at all when 1080i can be deinterlaced and converted to 1080p by TV or cable box. Just like when DVD player signal was converted to 480p by Tv or DVD player, couldnít the same thing be done with 1080i broadcast signal where 1080p broadcast would not be necessary.

    Iím figuring that film base 1080i broadcasting (where the source is 24 frame per second) can be converted to 1080p by interlacing or 3:2 pull down method by the TV/cable box without loosng any [field/frame] information. But the question is can conversion can be done correctly with non film base 1080i materials?

    I once had a 1080i set (two, actually) and the difference between that and 1080p is
    night and day, as big a jump as 480p deinterlaced from 480i.
    So why broadcast 1080p? You can use the extra bandwidth you save with 1080i
    for extra content.
    As for broadcasting at 24 fps, that probably wont happen, because you'd need a set that could handle it at the decoder stage, or a seperate tuner to feed a 24fps into an HDMI input, a lot of bother, really.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  10. #10
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Anywhere but here...
    Posts
    13,243
    720p is nice. At the time of my purchase 1080p was 5 times as much. If I had it to do over with today's pricing, I would not consider 720p.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  11. #11
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Smaller size tv sets are still 720p, because it doesnt make that much difference
    with the smaller screen.
    BUT I SAW A 1080P THE OTHER DAY, 32", so its just a matter of time.
    Matter of time for what, most sets to be 1080p regardless of screen size ?

    I use a 32" since the room is small, but it's 1080p -- wouldn't settle for anything less. And it does just fine sending DD5.1 to the receiver. Not sure why some hdtv's only trasmit in stereo, seems silly.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    tuscaloosa
    Posts
    5,528

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by kevlarus
    Matter of time for what, most sets to be 1080p regardless of screen size ?

    I use a 32" since the room is small, but it's 1080p -- wouldn't settle for anything less. And it does just fine sending DD5.1 to the receiver. Not sure why some hdtv's only trasmit in stereo, seems silly.
    Matter of time, yes.
    I am curious about your setup, if you have a "box" (sat or cable) you will get better results feeding the sound directly to the receiver.
    Most TV's only send stereo from the optical out(if they have one).
    THE REASON IS SIMPLE, they are cheap.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  13. #13
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ozarks
    Posts
    3,959
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    As for broadcasting at 24 fps, that probably wont happen, because you'd need a set that could handle it at the decoder stage, or a seperate tuner to feed a 24fps into an HDMI input, a lot of bother, really.
    My concern was since 1080p Tvs convert all of their input signal (1080i) to its native resolution (1080p) , does any information get lost in the field or frame of image in the upconversion process?

    I am asking this question because 1080i only produce 60 even and odd field per second (30 full frame persecond), while 1080p produce 60 full frame persecond.

  14. #14
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Matter of time, yes.
    I am curious about your setup, if you have a "box" (sat or cable) you will get better results feeding the sound directly to the receiver.
    Most TV's only send stereo from the optical out(if they have one).
    THE REASON IS SIMPLE, they are cheap.
    6 of one and all that. Since it's HDMI from the cable box to the TV, I just use the optical cable to pipe sound from the TV to the receiver. Also means, it I connect anything else via HDMI, the receiver will automatically get that sound too, since the receiver doesn't have HDMI -- only component ins.

    Not sure why you say "you will get better results" going from cable box direct to receiver.

    Down side for blu, the hdtv prolly only passes DD and not DTS, but I'll experiment with that when the time comes...

  15. #15
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    tuscaloosa
    Posts
    5,528

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by kevlarus
    6 of one and all that. Since it's HDMI from the cable box to the TV, I just use the optical cable to pipe sound from the TV to the receiver. Also means, it I connect anything else via HDMI, the receiver will automatically get that sound too, since the receiver doesn't have HDMI -- only component ins.

    Not sure why you say "you will get better results" going from cable box direct to receiver.

    Down side for blu, the hdtv prolly only passes DD and not DTS, but I'll experiment with that when the time comes...
    Sorry bout that, what I MEANT was that most cable boxes have digital outs,
    you are better off hooking up your receivers input that you are using for cable to that
    one.
    Not all are 5.1(or 5.0, which a few of mine are) but whatever you get will be a
    grand sight better than what comes outta the TV.
    You can run the HDMI to the TV, and when you'r receivers off, you can still use the tv
    speakers.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  16. #16
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    tuscaloosa
    Posts
    5,528

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    My concern was since 1080p Tvs convert all of their input signal (1080i) to its native resolution (1080p) , does any information get lost in the field or frame of image in the upconversion process?

    I am asking this question because 1080i only produce 60 even and odd field per second (30 full frame persecond), while 1080p produce 60 full frame persecond.
    Thats the great thing about 1080i broadcast.
    It was intended to be the main format, indeed, I have had several 1080i sets, but
    with the advent of 1080p sets you get a monumental increase in q without any
    cost.
    Its like the boost in q you get from a DVD, deinterlacing 480i to 480p.
    THERE IS NO "UPCONVERSION", so you are not dependent on how good a processing
    chip you have, you just have to take 30 alternating frames(interlaced) and stiche them
    together.
    And you get a 1080p picture pure from the broadcaster, now, its broadcast as a 1080i,
    but even so the pic is still a lot closer to the BLU standard.
    I don't know if broadcasting in 24 fps would work, doubt it.
    Most 1080p sets that take 24fps take it from the HDMI input.
    It would take an infrastructure change to broadcast at anything other than 60hz.
    120 hz sets get there 120 by chicanery, there picture depending on whatever magic chip
    resides in their innards.
    Even so, I THINK 120 HZ IS worth it, I have seen several, and the q is there, and when
    laymen shopping with their wives tell you they can see the difference...well!
    Dont know about 240, seems to be pushing it a bit.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  17. #17
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Quote Originally Posted by kevlarus
    Matter of time for what, most sets to be 1080p regardless of screen size ?

    I use a 32" since the room is small, but it's 1080p -- wouldn't settle for anything less. And it does just fine sending DD5.1 to the receiver. Not sure why some hdtv's only trasmit in stereo, seems silly.
    TV's only transmit is stereo because manufacturing a television requires paying liscensing fees for various technology within them(i.e MPEG decoders). Dolby liscenses(and their are two of them if I am not mistaken) just add to the cost, and then you have to add the signal path as well.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  18. #18
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    My concern was since 1080p Tvs convert all of their input signal (1080i) to its native resolution (1080p) , does any information get lost in the field or frame of image in the upconversion process?


    ] I am asking this question because 1080i only produce 60 even and odd field per second (30 full frame persecond), while 1080p produce 60 full frame persecond.
    All you are doing is combining the sequential frames( you are not upconverting anything) from 1080i(the two seperate fields of information) into one 1080p frame. The television receives the first field and holds it while waiting for the other frame to show. Some earlier televisions just line doubled a single field and didn't really combine the two fields of information.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  19. #19
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    TV's only transmit is stereo because manufacturing a television requires paying liscensing fees for various technology within them(i.e MPEG decoders). Dolby liscenses(and their are two of them if I am not mistaken) just add to the cost, and then you have to add the signal path as well.

    Sony thought enough ahead to add a toslink out.. of course, it's probably just Dolby, but it's definitely 5.1. It's one of their XBR series, so that may be the reason for the feature.

  20. #20
    jvc
    jvc is offline
    Still Learnin' jvc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Eastern NC
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    I know broadcast tv can do1080 I, but can they do 1080 P?

    AFAICT, only Bluray does 1080 P, but things do change.
    DirecTv and some cable companies (don't know about Dish Network) have some "On Demand" or PPV channels that broadcast in 1080p.
    1080p Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP
    Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver
    Oppo BDP-83 blu ray player
    Polk Audio LSi9 front speakers
    Polk Audio LSiC center speaker
    Sony SS-MB100H rear speakers
    SVS PC12-NSD powered subwoofer
    Pioneer PL-514 turntable
    Logitech Harmony 628 Universal Remote

  21. #21
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Quote Originally Posted by kevlarus
    Sony thought enough ahead to add a toslink out.. of course, it's probably just Dolby, but it's definitely 5.1. It's one of their XBR series, so that may be the reason for the feature.
    Its Dolby Digital, and because it is the top of the line of Sony, yes it has them. Good luck finding a toslink out on their V and Z series.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  22. #22
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Quote Originally Posted by jvc
    DirecTv and some cable companies (don't know about Dish Network) have some "On Demand" or PPV channels that broadcast in 1080p.
    It's encoded in 1080p, but the bits are not there for true 1080p. The bandwidth is not there for true perceptive 1080p, as that would require close to 35mbps delivery, and you are not going to get that bit rate from either Direct TV or cable. Its pure market at work.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  23. #23
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Thats the great thing about 1080i broadcast.
    It was intended to be the main format, indeed, I have had several 1080i sets, but
    with the advent of 1080p sets you get a monumental increase in q without any
    cost.
    1080i and 1080p have the same information, it is just presented differently so there is no monumental increase in quality. 1080p is just 1080i deinterlaced. Nothing more is added during deinterlacing. Your television just weaves the sequential frames together to form one single field simultaneously.

    I thought you knew everything about televisions? Or not........
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  24. #24
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ozarks
    Posts
    3,959
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    THERE IS NO "UPCONVERSION", so you are not dependent on how good a processing chip you have, you just have to take 30 alternating frames(interlaced) and stiche them together. And you get a 1080p picture pure from the broadcaster, now, its broadcast as a 1080i.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir TT
    All you are doing is combining the sequential frames( you are not upconverting anything) from 1080i(the two seperate fields of information) into one 1080p frame. The television receives the first field and holds it while waiting for the other frame to show. Some earlier televisions just line doubled a single field and didn't really combine the two fields of information.
    Thanks guys.

    So basically there is no need for 1080p broadcasting if TV deinterlaced 1080i signal to 1080p. I am guessing it will look as good as 1080p broadcasting.

  25. #25
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Thanks guys.

    So basically there is no need for 1080p broadcasting if TV deinterlaced 1080i signal to 1080p. I am guessing it will look as good as 1080p broadcasting.
    With good processing, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. So no, there is no reason to broadcast in 1080p
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •