A/V Receivers quality question

[StanleyMuso]

I'm about to start searching for a surround receiver, and will be looking at all the usual suspects, ie Denon, Marantz, HK, Rotel, Onkyo, Yamaha etc. I know that every manufacturer goes through a period when their products, which were perviously considered good, suddenly become dogs and suffer a lot of breakdowns. For example, I've had good luck with Denon equipment over the years, but around a year or so ago, several of my friends and acquaintences were constantly returning their's to the workshop.

I guess what I'm asking is, among the current crop, are there any dogs, reliability wise, that I should stear clear from. I'd really appreciate it if you'd share your experiences. I'm not asking about features, or sound quality, just outright reliability and build quality.

Thanks.

[kexodusc]

I wouldn't say there's any dogs of the list you've provided. I don't think you'll find many that would argue that Yamaha's quality is as good as it gets. Marantz and H/K have had the most recent problems, but seem to have overcome those.
Interesting to see Rotel in that list, they're receivers are a good step up performance wise (and price wise) on offerings from the others and I wouldn't worry about Rotel quality.

[Lexmark3200]

Stanley,


I'd say, quality wise, stick with Onkyo or Denon with regards to receivers; STAY AWAY from ANYTHING NON-ES Sony, Kenwood, JVC, and perhaps Pioneer (although some argue that their Elite line of receivers are good); you can always step up, as was suggested, to Rotel, NAD, or perhaps Onkyo's premium brand, Integra. But for the most part, stick with the two brands I mentioned first.

I have used Yamaha stereo receivers in the past and were pleased with their performance; I hear they are doing some monster surround receivers right now too, but I suggest those two brands. Just lift up one of Onkyo's or Denon's receivers --- most notably Onkyo's with their oversized internal components such as resistors and heat sinks and their all-aluminum faceplates ---- and FEEL the weight difference between them and something from the likes of, say, non-ES Sony models.....it's night and day. And I wouldnt consider ---- personally --- a model from Harmon Kardon; from friends of mine that have their receiver models (new ones) and from reports from editorial contacts I have at Home Theater Magazine, it seems the buttons have been falling off them, they're always in for repair, and the quality of the product in general has become sub-par and very mass market oriented; but for whatever thats worth, I suggest Denon of Onkyo for you, Stanley.

[Worf101]

I'd go with the top three unless you've the pockets for separates. I'd recommend in this order of ease of use, features etc...

1. Yamaha with YPAO

2. Onkyo

3. Denon,.

Avoid Pioneer like the plague, trust me I learned the hard way. Sony ain't what it used to be.

Da Worfster

[Lexmark3200]

"Avoid Pioneer like the plague, trust me I learned the hard way. Sony ain't what it used to be."

Well, that answered what I wanted to know about Pioneer......

Agreed.....Stan, dont even put them in the leauge of the Onkyos and Denons etc.....

[GMichael]

I'm about to start searching for a surround receiver, and will be looking at all the usual suspects, ie Denon, Marantz, HK, Rotel, Onkyo, Yamaha etc. I know that every manufacturer goes through a period when their products, which were perviously considered good, suddenly become dogs and suffer a lot of breakdowns. For example, I've had good luck with Denon equipment over the years, but around a year or so ago, several of my friends and acquaintences were constantly returning their's to the workshop.

I guess what I'm asking is, among the current crop, are there any dogs, reliability wise, that I should stear clear from. I'd really appreciate it if you'd share your experiences. I'm not asking about features, or sound quality, just outright reliability and build quality.

Thanks.

You can go wrong with Yamaha, Onkyo or Denon. Quality products all the way.

[Lexmark3200]

You can go wrong with Yamaha, Onkyo or Denon. Quality products all the way.

Very good advice, Michael; unfortunately, as what happens with so many people who begin threads, I dont think Stanlely is here with us anymore.......

Whoops ---- and I hope you mean CANT go wrong with.....lol.......you typed CAN go wrong with.......

[GMichael]

Very good advice, Michael; unfortunately, as what happens with so many people who begin threads, I dont think Stanlely is here with us anymore.......

Whoops ---- and I hope you mean CANT go wrong with.....lol.......you typed CAN go wrong with.......

hahaha, yeah, typo.
I think that Stanley's question has already been answered and he's now out at a Tweeter or similar company listening to all his options in person. I'd be doing the same if I could.

[Lexmark3200]

hahaha, yeah, typo.
I think that Stanley's question has already been answered and he's now out at a Tweeter or similar company listening to all his options in person. I'd be doing the same if I could.

LOL! True......although I wouldnt buy anything from a chain like Best Buy or Circus ****ty --- whoops ---- meant Circuity City......

[GMichael]

LOL! True......although I wouldnt buy anything from a chain like Best Buy or Circus ****ty --- whoops ---- meant Circuity City......

I have had my share of bad experiences with both BB & CC. But I did get to crank up an Onkyo SR702 with a pair on Infinity Primus 250's at CC a few months ago. They left me alone with the DVD "5th Element" Sounded great!

[Lexmark3200]

I have had my share of bad experiences with both BB & CC. But I did get to crank up an Onkyo SR702 with a pair on Infinity Primus 250's at CC a few months ago. They left me alone with the DVD "5th Element" Sounded great!

Hehehehehe.....yeah well the 702 is one hell of a monster......

I dont know, though.....there's something about buying serious home theater gear from these chain stores that bothers me; near me, in Henderson, Nevada, the Circuit City's home theater department is run by these teenagers that know less about the equipment they are trying to sell than an enthusiast like you or I; I mean, with every question I had for them about something as simple as a speaker stand, they looked at me blankly and mumbled "ummmmmmmm......let me talk to someone who.....ummmmm might know".........something about the place that I purchased all MY gear from ---- J&R Music World in downtown New York City ----- that just felt....well.....I dont know......more "upscale" of a shopping experience if you know what I mean........the salesman that me and my friend had spent nearly three hours with me trying to explain which receiver would work best with which speaker and why he recommended Onkyo, etc; THATS the kind of place you want to buy your gear from, feel me?

Buying CDs and DVDs at these Circuit Citys and Best Buys are okay, but once you start getting into EQUIPMENT buying IF you are a serious home theater enthusiast like me, there is something about these places I dont like......could be the floor models that are sitting out all "ghetto rigged" with speaker wire going everywhere and buttons falling off the receivers, I dont know.....I dont get a good vibe buying GEAR at these places.

[musicman1999]

stanley

if you are still here,
i see by your gear list that you care about serious sound,so let me recommend the cambridge audio 540r.it is short on features but very long on performance.i have been running mine for over a year now with jm labs speakers and could not be any happier with it. a clear step up from the mass market recievers.

good luck
bill

[Lexmark3200]

stanley

if you are still here,
i see by your gear list that you care about serious sound,so let me recommend the cambridge audio 540r.it is short on features but very long on performance.i have been running mine for over a year now with jm labs speakers and could not be any happier with it. a clear step up from the mass market recievers.

good luck
bill

Bill,

It seems Stanley, in his "list of gear" that you mention HE mentions, clearly put down the likes of Onkyo and Yamaha and what you label as mass market, so if you are suggesting that his "gear list" suggests an interest in "serious sound," would it not make sense for him to consider the brands he mentioned too?

[musicman1999]

i was the list that is in his profile that i refered to.
check it out,its impressive

bill

[Lexmark3200]

i was the list that is in his profile that i refered to.
check it out,its impressive

bill

Oh, I didnt see THAT list......usually people have their profiles under their posts; I clicked under his name and saw his gear.....it is pretty impressive. And while your recommendation for the brand he should consider is MOST DEFINITELY a higher end choice, I dont think he can go wrong with a good Onkyo or Denon ---- but thats just my opinion, and if I were upgrading RIGHT NOW, I would go to a receiver along the lines of a Rotel, NAD, Cambridge or Integra, otherwise I would just "do it right" and get a separate five or six channel power amp with a pre/pro separate..........

That Cambridge model you mentioned ---- thats a RECEIVER?

[GMichael]

Hehehehehe.....yeah well the 702 is one hell of a monster......

I dont know, though.....there's something about buying serious home theater gear from these chain stores that bothers me; near me, in Henderson, Nevada, the Circuit City's home theater department is run by these teenagers that know less about the equipment they are trying to sell than an enthusiast like you or I; I mean, with every question I had for them about something as simple as a speaker stand, they looked at me blankly and mumbled "ummmmmmmm......let me talk to someone who.....ummmmm might know".........something about the place that I purchased all MY gear from ---- J&R Music World in downtown New York City ----- that just felt....well.....I dont know......more "upscale" of a shopping experience if you know what I mean........the salesman that me and my friend had spent nearly three hours with me trying to explain which receiver would work best with which speaker and why he recommended Onkyo, etc; THATS the kind of place you want to buy your gear from, feel me?

Buying CDs and DVDs at these Circuit Citys and Best Buys are okay, but once you start getting into EQUIPMENT buying IF you are a serious home theater enthusiast like me, there is something about these places I dont like......could be the floor models that are sitting out all "ghetto rigged" with speaker wire going everywhere and buttons falling off the receivers, I dont know.....I dont get a good vibe buying GEAR at these places.

I have spent hundreds of thousands of $$ at J&R. None of it was mine but I got used to dealing with them. That's why I started my search with them when I wanted a new system.
As far as CC goes, I went there to check out an HK they had. Forget which model now but it had 1000 watts total. When I told the guy that I had a budget of $3k for a stereo system he had the nerve to tell me that at my age I wouldn't be able to hear the difference between a mid and a high end system. Then he tried to sell me a Bose. I listened to him, smiled, and went back to the HK.

[canuck1995]

I'm about to start searching for a surround receiver, and will be looking at all the usual suspects, ie Denon, Marantz, HK, Rotel, Onkyo, Yamaha etc. I know that every manufacturer goes through a period when their products, which were perviously considered good, suddenly become dogs and suffer a lot of breakdowns. For example, I've had good luck with Denon equipment over the years, but around a year or so ago, several of my friends and acquaintences were constantly returning their's to the workshop.

I guess what I'm asking is, among the current crop, are there any dogs, reliability wise, that I should stear clear from. I'd really appreciate it if you'd share your experiences. I'm not asking about features, or sound quality, just outright reliability and build quality.

Thanks.

I recently got a Yamaha HTR-5760 and I really love it! The YPAO makes setting up the acoustics of any room easy despite the room configuration. Initially I got the Sony STR then switched to Pioneer VSX and finally I settled for my Yamaha. That's the good thing about Bestbuy, you get a unit test it and keep on returning until you find the one you really want. It's really great for DVD's, and you can do alot of tweaking yourself or automatically with YPAO. If you want more go for the model with THX oh boy, its the ultimate in acoustics. BTW Yamaha 5760 has another feature you will really love, the "presence" speakers. The dialouge will be "coming out" from the tv instead of it coming out from a center speaker on the top or below the TV. But of course you have to hear it to believe it.

Hope it helps.

[Lexmark3200]

"I have spent hundreds of thousands of $$ at J&R. None of it was mine"

Well, who's was it?

"That's why I started my search with them when I wanted a new system."

They're a VERY reputible outlet with salesmen who KNOW what they're talking about.....

"As far as CC goes, I went there to check out an HK they had. Forget which model now but it had 1000 watts total. When I told the guy that I had a budget of $3k for a stereo system he had the nerve to tell me that at my age I wouldn't be able to hear the difference between a mid and a high end system. Then he tried to sell me a Bose. I listened to him, smiled, and went back to the HK."

Thats what Im talking about with the guys at Circus ****ty......they dont know ass from chicken scratch......but still, I would personally stay away from Harmon receivers, from what I have heard....

[GMichael]

"I have spent hundreds of thousands of $$ at J&R. None of it was mine"

Well, who's was it?

"That's why I started my search with them when I wanted a new system."

They're a VERY reputible outlet with salesmen who KNOW what they're talking about.....

"As far as CC goes, I went there to check out an HK they had. Forget which model now but it had 1000 watts total. When I told the guy that I had a budget of $3k for a stereo system he had the nerve to tell me that at my age I wouldn't be able to hear the difference between a mid and a high end system. Then he tried to sell me a Bose. I listened to him, smiled, and went back to the HK."

Thats what Im talking about with the guys at Circus ****ty......they dont know ass from chicken scratch......but still, I would personally stay away from Harmon receivers, from what I have heard....

It was for the IBM Research Center in Yorktown. You may remember a few years back when they built a giant computer to play chess. They had tried for years to beat the Russian chess master (I forget his name right now). Then, around 95 or 96 they felt they had the system to win. The big cheeses wanted every employee around the world to be able to witness their victory. So they put in a mega visual audio system that would broadcast every move to every IBM location everywhere, 24x7. I was a Buyer there at the time. In fact I was the so called "help desk." It really should have been called the "get this to me tomorrow no matter what the cost desk." I don't know exactly how much I spent on this project alone, but I was spending 30 to 50K at a pop for weeks with J&R.
I liked the sound of the HK. But I had read that they were having some QC problems. Don't know how true it was but I went with the Yammie. It sounds every bit as good, has extras, and has the lowest return rate.

[Lexmark3200]

"It was for the IBM Research Center in Yorktown. You may remember a few years back when they built a giant computer to play chess. They had tried for years to beat the Russian chess master (I forget his name right now). Then, around 95 or 96 they felt they had the system to win. The big cheeses wanted every employee around the world to be able to witness their victory. So they put in a mega visual audio system that would broadcast every move to every IBM location everywhere, 24x7. I was a Buyer there at the time. In fact I was the so called "help desk." It really should have been called the "get this to me tomorrow no matter what the cost desk." I don't know exactly how much I spent on this project alone, but I was spending 30 to 50K at a pop for weeks with J&R. "

Ahhhhhhhh........

"I liked the sound of the HK. But I had read that they were having some QC problems. Don't know how true it was but I went with the Yammie. It sounds every bit as good, has extras, and has the lowest return rate."

Better choice.

[StanleyMuso]

disappeared - just couldn't get to the computer for a few days. Your thoughts and comments all gratefully received, and will give me food for thought in my searches.

Musicman1999, you are right in thinking I am serious about my music. That is why I spent time and money to build the best stereo rig I could afford first. I still have expensive teenagers at home and a huge mortgage, so therefore, not as much left over for my hobby as I would like. Value for money and good quality is important to me. I hate stuff which breaks down. The Marantz DVD player I bought was because Marantz had a good reputation for sound quality, but at just a little over two years of ownership, it has started malfunctioning and is at the repair shop under warranty as we speak. Frankly, I am disappointed that what was supposed to be a company which prided itself for quality has let me down.

What I want to do now is to expand my stereo rig into full surround for film viewing. My plan is find a good quality but not overly expensive surround receiver which has pre-outs. I would then channel the sound for the two front speakers through my stereo rig, and the receiver would only power the two rear surrounds and the centre channel, and provide the .1 signal to the sub.

At the moment, my finances are stretched, other wise I would just go for the Rotel or some of the better examples mentioned in this thread (unless I come across a really good sale somewhere), or even seperates. But since I don't want to wait until I'm so old that my ears no longer appreciate good sound, I was thinking of getting a middle of the range model chosen from the companies mentioned above. For plain old music, the stereo would still be used, and the surround only for movies and TV. What do you think of this idea?

[GMichael]

disappeared - just couldn't get to the computer for a few days. Your thoughts and comments all gratefully received, and will give me food for thought in my searches.

Musicman1999, you are right in thinking I am serious about my music. That is why I spent time and money to build the best stereo rig I could afford first. I still have expensive teenagers at home and a huge mortgage, so therefore, not as much left over for my hobby as I would like. Value for money and good quality is important to me. I hate stuff which breaks down. The Marantz DVD player I bought was because Marantz had a good reputation for sound quality, but at just a little over two years of ownership, it has started malfunctioning and is at the repair shop under warranty as we speak. Frankly, I am disappointed that what was supposed to be a company which prided itself for quality has let me down.

What I want to do now is to expand my stereo rig into full surround for film viewing. My plan is find a good quality but not overly expensive surround receiver which has pre-outs. I would then channel the sound for the two front speakers through my stereo rig, and the receiver would only power the two rear surrounds and the centre channel, and provide the .1 signal to the sub.

At the moment, my finances are stretched, other wise I would just go for the Rotel or some of the better examples mentioned in this thread (unless I come across a really good sale somewhere), or even seperates. But since I don't want to wait until I'm so old that my ears no longer appreciate good sound, I was thinking of getting a middle of the range model chosen from the companies mentioned above. For plain old music, the stereo would still be used, and the surround only for movies and TV. What do you think of this idea?

I think it's a good idea. I am planning to add a 2-channel amp to my Yamaha.