Is 10yrs old too early to die?

So the DVD format officially turns 10 years old and it would seem that some of us are ready for its funeral already, but is it a death that is all too quick? Was 10 years long enough? In fall fairness, most people didn't really catch on until the midway point, maybe around the year 2000 is when things started to shape up as the format had all sorts of early bugs, just like HD. VHS obviously had a longer run than DVD, but maybe it's time was too long and there are still those hanging onto those tapes.

Personally I have spent the past 7 or so years building up a substantial collection, near 1250 or so. However, I could/would have much more, but over the past 3 years have really scaled back due to lack of good titles, poor transfers, poor extras, lack of DTS support, etc etc. I am to the point where I pretty much own every movie that I truly love, although there are still some I want on DVD (THE AFRICAN QUEEN comes to mind), but I am patient. About 30% of my DVD collection is rare out-of-print or import-only stuff, which makes it cool, but sadly the US market dropped the ball on certain titles forcing me to look outside the borders. I'm not necessarily mad to see DVD fade away, more sad that it was never the format that it could have been and was lazily handled by many studios. MGM comes to mind as one studio that pawned off poor prints that were recycled often times from the Laserdisc and if more DTS support would have been given I think DVD could have been more dominant.

What's everyone elses feeling?

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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies

So the DVD format officially turns 10 years old and it would seem that some of us are ready for its funeral already, but is it a death that is all too quick? Was 10 years long enough?
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and if more DTS support would have been given I think DVD could have been more dominant.

What's everyone elses feeling?

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I didn't realize that DVD is dying or that it isn't 'dominant'..... I thought it was the fastest selling electronic device in history (don't quote me on that, cuz I can't remember where I read that)... but anyway... DVD is very popular and I'm not sure what you think is killing it... What? Blue-Ray? HD-DVD? Have either of these formats started to significantly eat into the DVD market? Last I knew they were both still extremely expensive and having relative low sales compared to DVD...

Until you can pick up a good Blue-Ray/HD-DVD player for $70, I expect DVD to remain a viable and dominant format.

I think DVD will go the way of VHS, meaning that players will continue to fall, and the high end player market will dissapear. studios will continue to support the format for a few more years. then all players will be under $50 (like VCR's today)

Too early for whom? Usually consumers lament an impending change because of a heavy investment in an old format and/or financial anxiety about a new one. I'm not sure that either concern is relevant, at least right now, for standard DVD, which is strongly entrenched. But only hobbists would care. If all of a sudden a better mousetrap appeared on the scene--and all of the major mousetrap companies were poised to produce it--no one would complain about the old mousetrap's early demise. In the case of DVD, however, or any other home-entertainment format that attracts enthusiasts (people who buy products and get attached to them--for all sorts of reasons), changes can be threatening because enthusiasts' tacit attraction to innovation often contradicts their identification with "tradition." But nothing is more regular than change, especially in a digital age. Phono systems, CRT TVs, and VHS machines hung around a long time because of analog inertia; digital products are on a different curve altogether.

I'm with Carl on this one,I don't see DVD going anywhere soon. For one thing HDTV isn't in everyone's home yet and they sure aren't going to be concerned about HD-DVD. The longer HD-DVD and Blu-ray battle, the more likely they will become a nitch product like SACD/DVD-A, and may even die like that, although I believe the video formats have more potential than that. Thankfully for those of us with large DVD collections the HD players will be backward compatible if they do take off.

If DVD was handled lazily it's because it didn't have a competing format. Keep in mind those of us on this board are audio, video or both, hobbyists, people I see day to day just are not plugged into the newer tecnologies. I have HDTV but other than here, it's rare to find others who do. The doors are staying open at the mass merchants so I'm sure HDTV's are going to somebody, I just can't find out who.

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

I'm with Carl on this one,I don't see DVD going anywhere soon. For one thing HDTV isn't in everyone's home yet and they sure aren't going to be concerned about HD-DVD. The longer HD-DVD and Blu-ray battle, the more likely they will become a nitch product like SACD/DVD-A, and may even die like that, although I believe the video formats have more potential than that. Thankfully for those of us with large DVD collections the HD players will be backward compatible if they do take off.

If DVD was handled lazily it's because it didn't have a competing format. Keep in mind those of us on this board are audio, video or both, hobbyists, people I see day to day just are not plugged into the newer tecnologies. I have HDTV but other than here, it's rare to find others who do. The doors are staying open at the mass merchants so I'm sure HDTV's are going to somebody, I just can't find out who.

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Out of the 50 people i work with only 4 of us have a HDTV, Heck some of them dont even know what it is.

The short answer is yes. I know people who say I have just too many DVD's to want to replace them all now. They've got to wait a generation.

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Originally Posted by Carl Reid

I didn't realize that DVD is dying or that it isn't 'dominant'..... I thought it was the fastest selling electronic device in history (don't quote me on that, cuz I can't remember where I read that)... but anyway... DVD is very popular and I'm not sure what you think is killing it... What? Blue-Ray? HD-DVD? Have either of these formats started to significantly eat into the DVD market? Last I knew they were both still extremely expensive and having relative low sales compared to DVD...

Until you can pick up a good Blue-Ray/HD-DVD player for $70, I expect DVD to remain a viable and dominant format.

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DVD will die a most likely slow death for some, just like VHS, which some people are still holding onto. I personally am not ready to switch over just yet, but I always knew the limitations that DVD had and the problems. While it has improved to some degree it becomes increasingly harder to watch DVD's when they don't look as good as HD programming. This is comparing even the best DVD's to HD programming, now if you actually get about 80% of the rest of the DVD's which are plagued with poor transfers than you have a no-contest HD winner.

My hope is that they do HD right and I am not convinced at this point that they are really ready to adopt a new format that can deliver what people want. People want superb picture, sound, and loads of extras. Until they get all 3 of those areas working in full glory most people will stay with what they have.

My take is a bit different.

DVD isn't dying, but the universal, dominant format might be. DVD-A and SACD still enjoy a few releases. They aren't mainstream, but so what? Neither are Ferarri's. Look at all the digital audio formats. We used to talk about them dying and disappearing. mp3 seems here to stay.

Slowly we're seeing more and more special-needs and niche products find their way to little corners of the market. It's happening in almost every industry, I think it's almost a certainty that by the time downloading movies and music becomes 25% of the industry's business, we will have seen the last truly dominant format. And that very well could be DVD.
How many video gaming formats are there? Music formats? Too many dollar-hungry media corps will put an end to the universal, standard format.

When are they going to start storing movies on little memory chips? Seems to me that this would be the easiest way. My camera has a small chip that holds 4GB of memory. A couple of years ago 1GB was a big deal. Soon the 4GB's may be old and cost pennies. How much space does a movie (HD or not) take up? Will this spell the end for both DVD and HD-DVD/BLU-RAY?

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Originally Posted by GMichael

When are they going to start storing movies on little memory chips? Seems to me that this would be the easiest way. My camera has a small chip that holds 4GB of memory. A couple of years ago 1GB was a big deal. Soon the 4GB's may be old and cost pennies. How much space does a movie (HD or not) take up? Will this spell the end for both DVD and HD-DVD/BLU-RAY?

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This would make the most sense, I think...Rather than fancy lasers and expensive hardware, put the burden on software.

For now, I think these HD movie formats are holding 30-50 GB at least. That's gonna be an aweful expensive chip...but in a few years who knows?

I wonder how congested internet traffic would get if legal downloading HD movies became extremely popular? I think everyone's sort of banking on that being a viable future alternative.

Judging by the shelf space given to HD titles, number of HD players I see in stores, and even the slow transition to HD for television service providers, I kinda wonder if the whole HD thing is still really a few years away from taking over.

My 2 cents, even tho the the equipment is here the avarage Joe is still years behind the power curve. Many are buying widescreen T.V. 's but still do not have the supporting gear to push the devices to their full potential. Most people are relying on the the cable company,Direct T.V. to supply the highend content. People still are lost on which type of cable connnection (Component, HDMI, S-video, Compostie, Coax, Optic) needed to get the highend results. And we all know most people hate to read the manuals that comes with their gear, and would rather call a friend for the answer.

So just like the computer industry, the audio/video industry will need to color code all connection to help the reading impaired ( I seen this on my Vizio WS32") so them will not have to spend much time reading about how to connect the equipment. If not for Xbox and PS3 using the newer blu ray and HD DVD, they both would not even be as popular as they are. And with the format war in full swing will continue to keep even us some what knowledgable folks from spending our cash on the loser. It took about 5-7 years for the Beta and VHS wars to end. So it may be awhile for this one to sort itself out. We were just lucky that the DVD and DVIX war was short lived and DVIX still lives on the net as a download format. So in short people ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

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Originally Posted by kexodusc

My take is a bit different.

DVD isn't dying, but the universal, dominant format might be. DVD-A and SACD still enjoy a few releases. They aren't mainstream, but so what? Neither are Ferarri's. Look at all the digital audio formats. We used to talk about them dying and disappearing. mp3 seems here to stay.

Slowly we're seeing more and more special-needs and niche products find their way to little corners of the market. It's happening in almost every industry, I think it's almost a certainty that by the time downloading movies and music becomes 25% of the industry's business, we will have seen the last truly dominant format. And that very well could be DVD.
How many video gaming formats are there? Music formats? Too many dollar-hungry media corps will put an end to the universal, standard format.

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I don't really see the illustration here because comparing this to a car doesn't really hold up well. When someone buys a car they typically only buy ONE car. We are talking about formats here and the problem with SACD or DVD-A is the limited amount of titles that one can get and it would be great if you could get a wider selection of them. HD-DVD and Blu-ray are lightyears beyond where SACD and DVD-A are. At least people are talking about the HD formats and getting studio support to some extent. Few people see a need for higher resolution audio, which is unfortunate. Quite frankly the majority of people listen to music in their cars, on computer, on a boombox at work, or some small system while they do other things. It's only the small majority of people like us on this site that actually sit around and just absord music. Therefore SACD and DVD-A are quite useless in a car system.

Unlike VHS, DVDs do not degrade (not at least as rapidly) over time due to wear and tear, or just by siting on shelf. I remember having the Star Treck movies on VHS, and may be played it 2 or 3 times. But after three or four years of just siting on the shelf, the picture got extremely noisy with faded colors. So it became worthless.

So as soon as DVD arrived, most people were glad to dump their VHS collection. But DVDs durability make it a commodity, and consumers might not be as quick to part with it as they did with VHS.

Sorry, I am just babbling :D

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Originally Posted by Smokey

Unlike VHS, DVDs do not degrade (not at least as rapidly) over time due to wear and tear, or just by siting on shelf. I remember having the Star Treck movies on VHS, and may be played it 2 or 3 times. But after three or four years of just siting on the shelf, the picture got extremely noisy with faded colors. So it became worthless.

So as soon as DVD arrived, most people were glad to dump their VHS collection. But DVDs durability make it a commodity, and consumers might not be as quick to part with it as they did with VHS.

Sorry, I am just babbling :D

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I am somewhat convinced that they could put just about any movie or TV show of all time on DVD and there would be someone out there to buy it, the fact is that they have only hit about 15% of what is out there on DVD. There are still many films out there not on DVD and plenty of TV shows...I'm waiting for THE WONDER YEARS seasons on DVD....just kidding.

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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies

I don't really see the illustration here because comparing this to a car doesn't really hold up well. When someone buys a car they typically only buy ONE car. We are talking about formats here and the problem with SACD or DVD-A is the limited amount of titles that one can get and it would be great if you could get a wider selection of them. HD-DVD and Blu-ray are lightyears beyond where SACD and DVD-A are. At least people are talking about the HD formats and getting studio support to some extent. Few people see a need for higher resolution audio, which is unfortunate. Quite frankly the majority of people listen to music in their cars, on computer, on a boombox at work, or some small system while they do other things. It's only the small majority of people like us on this site that actually sit around and just absord music. Therefore SACD and DVD-A are quite useless in a car system.

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The point made was simple and the Ferarri comparison is quite appropriate here if you stop thinking in terms of "format" and consider each format as just a different kind of video media. You don't need to be the dominant format, or dominant product in ANY market (ie, cars, movies/music media, etc) to enjoy a successful run. SACD and DVD-A didn't replace CD, but they continue to satisfy audiophiles in a niche market who want more than than standard CD audio. When it comes to music, they are the high performance, luxury items, much like Ferarri is in its industry...each made to satisfy a niche market ...Right now, so are HD-DVD and BluRay. Only a very small number of people right now are willing to drop the money to move from DVD. There's a lot of us here who'd love to make the switch, we're probably way ahead of the regular joe-consumer when it comes to adopting new audio/video products, but there's still a few too many barriers to entry for us.

For most of the market, DVD is still good enough. There's a huge number of individuals who hope and want HD formats to become more affordable and mainstream (I even hope Ferarri becomes more affordable and mainstream :) ). We're all sort of banking on this to happen, but there's a good chance that neither will never take over and completely replace DVD as the "only" format available.

I think the problem here is that we've all sort of become conditioned to expect only 1 format in which all titles are released. But who made that rule? Sure, it offers benefits. But I think as long as there's companies looking to make a buck, they'll find different ways to talk consumers into buying "their version" of a product.

If all the studios were to continue to support DVD indefinitely, and not "force" the market into a new product by gradually discontinuing support, who knows how long they could co-exist? It could be years before BluRay or HD-DVD win out over DVD. Neither may ever reach that level. HD-DVD and BluRay could very easily release titles to a relatively small HD capable (or willing) market, while standard DVD continues to sell for several years. By then, a few future formats might be tempting that same niche market to opt for the new high performance product.

Like I mentioned earlier, how many musical formats are there currently? Let's just look at digital audio formats. WMA, mp3, Ogg, flac, etc...each appeals to different crowds for different reasons. I can remember back in the late 90's everyone expected the less common formats to disappear eventually. Hasn't happened.

Your points about people listening in their cars, on their computers, etc, really emphasize my point. We could probably all get by with only 1 universal standard format, but I think it's a very real possibility that days of 1 format only are over. I use LP's, CD's, DVD-A, SACD, and 3 kinds of digital audio - 1 for home, 1 for the car, 1 for my portable player - each offers certain benefits that make it ideal for my needs in their respective application. Quite honestly, having multiple media formats can be a blessing, too.

For video, well, we could very easily be headed for something similar. Especially as Microsoft looks to really be pushing HD downloading in the future - this could eliminate the need for a disc-based format altogether for many people. I don't think the downloading option is going to replace buying a disc in the store any time soon, but I wouldn't be shocked if in 2 or 3 years it represents a significant portion of sales.

I think calling the DVD format dead (or predicting its demise in the near future) might be a bit premature. Especially with so many of the video enthusiast crowd sitting on the fence still waiting for a winner in the HD-DVD/BluRay war. As long as sizeable portion of the market continues to use only DVD players, they'll keep making new DVD's. This could go on for another 5 or 10 years. They'll even continue to sell DVD's long after it loses the #1 spot.

So DVD's are not dying so much as they are growing old. There are a couple of new kids on the block. They have a lot of potential, but so far, still just kids. As these kids grow up, one may beat the other up. Bruised and beaten, the loser may limp on anyhow. Meanwhile, DVD's will still be in charge for a few more years. Some day, one of these kids will decide that it's time to take over, and challenge the old timer. Even then, the old timer won't die off right then and there. He'll pick up a cane at Wal-Mart and wobble on for another decade or so. Eventually he will fade away. And someday, these new kids will move on as well. Replaced by an even newer kid with more bravado than ever.

DVD was introduced at the same time as the first HD broadcast. DVD was always going to be a stopgap device until HD laserdisc came about. The fact that DVD became so popular with Joe-SixPack was something of a suprise.

I don't dispute what you say but I don't know how anyone could be surprised when with a purchase of a DVD player you got 5 to sometimes more free movies. DVD was also clearly more superior than VHS and what made it popular with Joe 6-pack was CONVENIENCE, no rewinding, chapter access, perfect stills. etc. These things aren't going to change with another disc format, so the question is, will a HD disc be obviously more superior than standard DVD and will anyone care.

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

I don't dispute what you say but I don't know how anyone could be surprised when with a purchase of a DVD player you got 5 to sometimes more free movies. DVD was also clearly more superior than VHS and what made it popular with Joe 6-pack was CONVENIENCE, no rewinding, chapter access, perfect stills. etc. These things aren't going to change with another disc format, so the question is, will a HD disc be obviously more superior than standard DVD and will anyone care.

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I think Mr. Peabody brings up a good point. It is not video or audio quality that sells a format, for the most part, it is convenience. Remember, I am talking about the majority of buyers. Us audiphiles are in the minority and what we want does not add up to a hill of beans. It is a sad statement and we may not like it, but for most people, it is the truth.

Downloading has a huge potential, and due to its convenience, has made music sales in this format a huge factor. But, we all know that finding music you like in a lossless format is nex to impossible. CD quality is not even a standard. Even if HD material was available, bandwidth is still a major hurdle for most buyers.

DVD will die when a new, united standard, that is more convenient, provides a clear advantage,and is the same cost or cheaper when it enters the market IMO. If these things occur, the studios will support it.

Actually, I think the DVD format was probably born a few years too early (nothing new in that regard with digital formats). Right now, the company line from the various manufacturers pushing Blu-ray and HD-DVD is that the DVD was an "interim" format to hold the market over until the high definition formats come out. Interesting bit of revisionism going on right now, because this "interim" format just happened to evolve into the fastest growing consumer electronics format ever.

While the DVD format provided tangible benefits to consumers transitioning over from VHS and Laserdisc, it probably should have waited until the disc capacity and codec technologies were ready to support HD resolution. The HDTV specs were already in development in 1990, and the first HDTV sets came out in the late-90s. If the DVD had come out as a high definition format from the outset, the HDTV market would have taken hold a lot sooner and this idiotic format war between Blu-ray and HD-DVD would never have happened.

As it stands, Blu-ray and HD-DVD face a very uncertain market. Even though HDTV sales finally took off last year, it was wider availability of broadcast programming that drove those sales. With HD downloading and on-demand services looming, and the reality that Joe6pack very well might view the DVD fomat as "good enough," the market for HD video discs already has plenty of built-in impediments. Add this format war to the mix with neither format supported by all the major studios, and the DVD will not get supplanted anytime soon.

For most consumers, the DVD was their point of entry to 5.1 audio, progressive scan, random access chapter skipping, the now commonplace bonus features, and a much smaller form factor for their movie viewing. Blu-ray and HD-DVD simply provide better picture and audio quality, and enhanced multimedia/networking features. Those aspects might be highly consequential to a home theater enthusiast, but might not provide enough incentive to upgrade for most mainstream consumers, especially at the current pricing.

If anything, the DVD is simply at the end of its growth trajectory, because it's now the established dominant format rather than the upstart. Year-to-year sales continue to increase, but it's primarily new releases that now drive the market. Most of the popular catalog titles have already come out on DVD (in many cases, multiple times), and those with VHS and/or Laserdisc libraries have already repopulated their collections with DVD versions.

Keep in mind that it took six years for the DVD's market share to finally pass VHS, and even longer than that for the CD to supplant the cassette. Blu-ray and HD-DVD were only introduced last year, so there's plenty that still has to happen before either of those formats (or something else like HD downloading) surpass the DVD.

[QUOTE=Woochifer
Keep in mind that it took six years for the DVD's market share to finally pass VHS, and even longer than that for the CD to supplant the cassette. Blu-ray and HD-DVD were only introduced last year, so there's plenty that still has to happen before either of those formats (or something else like HD downloading) surpass the DVD.[/QUOTE]

Ok we will keep that in mind. Thanks.

I still think the amount of HD content from satelite and cable is terrible. I have had cable now for 2 years and not a single new HD channel has been added. There's no excuse for that. I think it's just greed. As long as they keep it limited, they can continue to charge premium fees for it.

DVD is popular with the great unwashed, which means its over.
The future isnt any disc format, actually, its in a cable or sat signal.
MY town has VOD, over a fiber optic cable, with plenty of HD content,
a growing number of HD stations, and if you subscribe to a premium
service you get vod privliges on a lot of their content, incluing HD!
I can rent a standard def DVD or wait a few weeks and watch it over cable in HD and dont have to worry about returning it.
AND on top of that digital cable content in standard def looks pretty good on my flatscreen, usually is DD, and the difference just isnt worth renting a DVD over.
Unless you are a collector theres' really no reason to buy a DVD in my town anymore, and to heck with both HD and BLURAY.
Both are overpriced and underengineered, too many geegaws you'll never use (trust me) and no compelling reason for people paying 3 bucks a gallon for gas to buy one (saw a "five hundred" dollar HD player for 399$ at short circuit or sears the other day_
THE only REAL format that has a future is the HARD DRIVE,
and other means of digital storage, we cant afford to make plastic oil based discs anymore to deliver content when a stream of photons or electrons over a wire will do pretty much the same thing
Take a look at the music industry and all of the record stores shutting down if you want to see the future of hard copy video of ANY kind that you buy in a "brick and motar" store

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Originally Posted by recoveryone

My 2 cents, even tho the the equipment is here the avarage Joe is still years behind the power curve. Many are buying widescreen T.V. 's but still do not have the supporting gear to push the devices to their full potential. Most people are relying on the the cable company,Direct T.V. to supply the highend content. People still are lost on which type of cable connnection (Component, HDMI, S-video, Compostie, Coax, Optic) needed to get the highend results. And we all know most people hate to read the manuals that comes with their gear, and would rather call a friend for the answer.

So just like the computer industry, the audio/video industry will need to color code all connection to help the reading impaired ( I seen this on my Vizio WS32") so them will not have to spend much time reading about how to connect the equipment. If not for Xbox and PS3 using the newer blu ray and HD DVD, they both would not even be as popular as they are. And with the format war in full swing will continue to keep even us some what knowledgable folks from spending our cash on the loser. It took about 5-7 years for the Beta and VHS wars to end. So it may be awhile for this one to sort itself out. We were just lucky that the DVD and DVIX war was short lived and DVIX still lives on the net as a download format. So in short people ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

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hey recovery one, the divix on the net has nothing to do with the ill fated divix of years past, dont ask why they named it that
and HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR vizio?
I've had my 37 in for about six months and do NOTHING else but watch it

Pix-Kex

I agree with you all. I think it is really a question of format and delivery. At the moment and probably for some time to come we will see a variety of formats but the one that is able to be delivered cheapest to the masses will be the winner. The availability of movies on demand is limited and somewhat new so your Blockbuster, Netflix etc will keep the DVD around (heck my local store still stocks a fairly substantial number of VHS tapes)

Enthusiasts will always be looking for the next best thing or the status symbol (hence the Ferrari analogy works for me) but enthusiasts are a small segment of the marketplace though they often are the drivers of innovations within any given are technology. To further the car analogy that Kex mentioned, right now the DVD is the Model T of the industry-cheap to make-cheap to own and does the job most people need it for. Until a new "Model T" comes out or the public decides they want a car that comes in a color other than black and has more features the DVD has a life.

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

DVD is popular with the great unwashed, which means its over.
The future isnt any disc format, actually, its in a cable or sat signal.
MY town has VOD, over a fiber optic cable, with plenty of HD content,
a growing number of HD stations, and if you subscribe to a premium
service you get vod privliges on a lot of their content, incluing HD!
I can rent a standard def DVD or wait a few weeks and watch it over cable in HD and dont have to worry about returning it.
AND on top of that digital cable content in standard def looks pretty good on my flatscreen, usually is DD, and the difference just isnt worth renting a DVD over.
Unless you are a collector theres' really no reason to buy a DVD in my town anymore, and to heck with both HD and BLURAY.
Both are overpriced and underengineered, too many geegaws you'll never use (trust me) and no compelling reason for people paying 3 bucks a gallon for gas to buy one (saw a "five hundred" dollar HD player for 399$ at short circuit or sears the other day_
THE only REAL format that has a future is the HARD DRIVE,
and other means of digital storage, we cant afford to make plastic oil based discs anymore to deliver content when a stream of photons or electrons over a wire will do pretty much the same thing
Take a look at the music industry and all of the record stores shutting down if you want to see the future of hard copy video of ANY kind that you buy in a "brick and motar" store

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I have yet to find an HD program that can match the audio quality of a standard DVD. This seems to be where the sat\cable companies feel they can compress more signal without the average Joe noticing. But, for me, I have gotten to the point where I would rather rent a standard DVD then watch a butchered HD program.

TNTHD is the worst. They cut off the left and right portion of the video, then stretch it to fit the entire 16:9 screen. Not much better than DVD. Pretty sad!

[quote=pixelthis]the great unwashed

Who might they be, and who are you representing--the elite washed (who presumably are possessed of a higher knowledge) or the enthusiasts (though you've already dismissed them as ineffectual, and apparently not you)? Who's left, besides you?

(trust me) I'm sorry, but why should we do that? I'll bet you don't use all of the gee gaws on your TV either, but you still watch it. Many people (in a relative sense) have adopted Blu-ray and/or HD DVD with great success. The PQ is superior to anything that cable or satellite has been known to deliver, with gee gaws (if you like that sort of thing) that aren't ever likely to be available elsewhere.

One thing that you should do is decide what point you're arguing. Whether a format will actually catch fire and turn into VHS or DVD is irrelevant from a certain point of view. It is certainly not the same as claiming that it had no right to appear in the first place, or that it is a waste of technology. A new format's distinguishing characteristics and its appeal to a particular population may well be more important to interested parties than speculation about its longevity. If you think that hi def DVD should never have been offered because other delivery systems appeal to you more, you would do well to couch your opinion in less universal terms. It wouldn't take long at all to find well-scrubbed people who disagree with you.

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Originally Posted by westcott

I have yet to find an HD program that can match the audio quality of a standard DVD. This seems to be where the sat\cable companies feel they can compress more signal without the average Joe noticing. But, for me, I have gotten to the point where I would rather rent a standard DVD then watch a butchered HD program.

TNTHD is the worst. They cut off the left and right portion of the video, then stretch it to fit the entire 16:9 screen. Not much better than DVD. Pretty sad!

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This is a real shame. I have said this before on here, but feel the need to say it again because it's so insane. They first bastardize the film by cutting it for P&S, which means we lose about 35% of the film, then to make matters worse they stetch the film out to fill the frame making everyone look distorted and fat. So...we get an HD picture of a film that has been slaughtered, stretched, and squished.....sign me up for that! HAHHA.

My local HD provider sends the higher bitrate Dolby for HD broadcasts (484?). The SD simulcast is almost always a lower bitrate, but all that aside, I don't find the compression to be all that terrible - just the opposite, it is extremely well done. It's damn close to DVD quality and usually I'm so engaged in the movie that I don't concentrate on the few times you can hear artifacts.
As the switch to on-demand programming comes (which should save a ton of bandwidth) I expect the service will just continue to improve.
HDTV has been available for only a few years now, and really only took off in the last 18 months or so...

All that aside, I don't think we're in any danger of seeing cable/satellite/internet service replace a disc based format any time soon. The home-movie industry was built on one simple fact - people like owning a copy of the movie. That's not going to change anytime soon.
I could see video chains really getting squeezed out, however. They're losing in the convenience area to these alternatives big time.
For one, the PPV prices for on demand service are too high.

There's no relationship between the DIVX DVDs and the DIVX format for video files commonly used for videos shared on the internet.

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Originally Posted by emorphien

There's no relationship between the DIVX DVDs and the DIVX format for video files commonly used for videos shared on the internet.

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like I said.
Why do you think they named this great format after one of the most hated lawyer engineered schemes in history??:confused:
BUT anyway I have seen a zillon formats launched, and trust me, like another poster said, it will be a niche format without the support of the masses.
BUT what really burns my keister about both hd and bluray is they are about selling new players and making money, not serving the consumer.
Much as I am leery of microsoft, they came out with a great format for HD, wouldnt have added much to the cost of a player and you could watch it on your HTPC if so inclined, and the pic and sound were great, I have two of the discs.
THIS is the type of low key format we need until the future becomes more clear, too bad it wouldnt sell emough players, which is what its all about.
So both camps turned out limozines when there is NO market for them,
I have seen plenty of people raving about their new DVD player, playing through a converter from "the shack" on a coax cable on a tv
with purple people on it, this is who you have to sell to.
I looked at a side by side demo at sears , HD versus standard DVD and it was sad, the difference was so subtle most lookin at it remarked
that they couldnt tell the difference, I could but just barely.
Dont get me wrong, I love toys probably as much as the next poster on this site(posted a lot of reviews as moviedog) but I smell the smell of death about these formats, hope I'm wrong
With all of the spending options these days most will look at these formats and decide that DVD is "good enough", if these formats make it it will be through heavy subsidizing .
The mass market will have the final say, the same people who picked
VHS over laserdisc, and if that doesnt scare you you cant be scared:sad:

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

I looked at a side by side demo at sears , HD versus standard DVD and it was sad, the difference was so subtle most lookin at it remarked that they couldnt tell the difference, I could but just barely.

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Slow down, there, pard'ner, I may just have to call bulls</>h!t on that.
Were these people Morlocks or something? I don't know what the Sears are like there, but I do frequent quite a few a/v stores on my travels and one constant I've always observed is that HD discs on any system configured even halfway properly is far, far superior to DVD. It's not even close. There really is no comparison here - I'll even go so far as to say the difference in picture quality is at least as big a jump as it was from VHS to DVD - maybe more.

Either Sears can't figure out how to hook one up properly, or the TV's torch mode is unflattering, but HD is not just a subtle improvement.
Now, 1080i resolution to 1080p, even 720p to 1080p reaches a point of diminishing returns, which I could accept as subtle in most living room applications, but 480p to 1080i is a jump and then some.

The transition to HD is going to happen one way or another. Won't be long until all video recording equipment is HD and that's all we'll get...one format or another, doesn't matter to me...Like I said earlier, the home-movie industry was built on the fact people like owning "things". Tangible things they can touch..ie, a copy of the movie. That's not going to change anytime soon. 5-7 years from now we'll have at least 1 new mainstream HD disc format. It's not the first time people upgraded video electronics, most made the switch from VHS without much issue....these things just take a bit of time.

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

like I said.
Why do you think they named this great format after one of the most hated lawyer engineered schemes in history??:confused:

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I seem to recall the DIVX video format preceding the stupid discs.

Pixelthis, you are either fortunate or clueless. Let me say this in the nicest way possible, CABLE SUCKS!!! Our area is serviced by Charter and the company must be ran by the decendens of the 3 Stooges. They must put homeless people on the customer service phone with no training, they act like they have never seen a cable box and can't even tell me if PPV is HD or 5.1. My cable company has not added a single HD channel in 2 years.

My mom gave the kids a movie this weekend, Flushd Away, and it was a stupid full screen version. This made me think of this thread. If it is still profitable for movie companies to make full screen coppies, DVD ain't going anywhere soon. This is also evidence that HDTV has yet to be really "mainstream". Actually, when I look at movies at Wal-Mart,it is more difficult to find widescreen versions. I don't know if all this rederick is wishfl thinking or loss of touch with reality.

I'll be honest with you, I have 3 HDTV's, and I'm mad as hell that there isn't more HD content available. As a TV need arose I replaced it thinking HDTV was right around the corner. Yeah right.....

First things first, the demo was HD and on a 32 in screen, not the best of conditions, but this IS what people are seeing.
I must admit I saw a bluray demo at short circuit that was quite impressive.
But talking about the diff between 480 p and 1080i, the differences arent as great as most would think, when theres movement in a
interlaced pic of any type the resolution drops to HALF, which is
why 720p is superior to 1080i, not to mention artifacts that exist in any
interlaced format.
The reason hd beats the pants off of dvd is most DVDS are 480i,
if that, and deinterlaced to 480p, you wont get any rez increase over standard tv, just more "solid" and colorfull pictures.
So 1080i vs 480p in most cases is 540P versus 480i as far as rez goes.
AND yes I am blessed, my cable company in many ways is just as
medevial as most, but several years ago they switched to fiber optic (to the neighborhood in some cases, to the pole in others) and have been adding service, I guess they are nervous about the new upgrade coming from direct tv.
SO I have a modem, (1.5 mps last time I checked) a motorola
DVR cable box with HDMI, and a growing list of HD channels
ALL local stations, including PBS , both of the espns, A&E, INHD,
DISCOVERY (of course) , universal, golf, tnt, MHD (music vids and concerts) national geographic, and TNT., AND FOX SPORTS SOUTH.
STARZ, showtime, and max are premium channels, and HD if you subscribe.
ALL premium channels have some of their content on VOD (VIDEO
ON DEMAND) some of it HD and no charge if you subscribe to the service, and of course the usual pay-per-view, some HD
I set the rez on my box to 1080 and go, my TV seems to do a good job of presenting all of the standard digital material, dont know if the box upconverts it before it shoots it to my tv, but it looks great.
Perhaps living in a college town helps, we used tro be a "market survey site" because of our wide demograpic, got albums, comics, books, etc a few weeks before anybody else, perhaps this is comcast sticking their toe in the water.
Its great whatever it is, but HECK, it sure is expensive!:ciappa:

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Originally Posted by pixelthis

But talking about the diff between 480 p and 1080i, the differences arent as great as most would think, when theres movement in a
interlaced pic of any type the resolution drops to HALF, which is
why 720p is superior to 1080i, not to mention artifacts that exist in any
interlaced format.

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In scenes with a lot of fast motion, 720p is a bit better..slower movement, dialogue, and large epic scenes with minimal movement resolve better in 1080i - which happens to be the majority of images in most TV/movies...hence the decision to 1080i on most TV programming. Sports being the exception.
The difference between 720p and 1080p, not nearly as noticeable to me as the diff from 480p to 720p. 1080i to 1080p in most scenes will go unnoticed unless we're talking about projectors on large screens...57" TV and lower, not so much.

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Pixelthis, you are either fortunate or clueless. Let me say this in the nicest way possible, CABLE SUCKS!!! Our area is serviced by Charter and the company must be ran by the decendens of the 3 Stooges. They must put homeless people on the customer service phone with no training, they act like they have never seen a cable box and can't even tell me if PPV is HD or 5.1. My cable company has not added a single HD channel in 2 years.

.....

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HAHAHAHAHAHA Hey wait. I have cable! And yeah, they do suck. When I ordered the DVR's I told them to make sure I got the updated ones with HDMI. The homeless lady on the phone told me that they only have the one DVR and it doesn't have HDMI. I reluctantly ordered component cables from PE to wire the whole house. When the DVR's showed up, guess what connectors they had. Yup, HDMI. Jerks.

Hey Kex, I have to differ just a bit about the VHS change over to DVD. Just as with any other long used product, the VHS died a long slow death and still shows up as a ghost in small niche places. The VCR was a new toy for our parents (I'm 45 so I know a little bit) that they felt was the last real upgrade in the electronic age. The VCR was the first format that allowed people to own a film. So as technology advanced, I.E. DVD's most were not in a real hurry to jump on that band wagon. In many cases we baby boomer's (I'm on the tail end 1961) brought our parent's their first and possibly their only DVD player and first dvd movie. And like my self I had to get a dual machine that had both VCR and DVD, so they could still watch their collection of tapes.

I have been around to see music change formats 45,78,33 1/3 LP's to 8 track to cassettes to CD's to SACD/DVDA. Black & White TV's to Color CRT's to LCD's and more. And one day I too like my parents will just not get all excited about some newer format that will only show me the same old movie stories I seen over and over the years. And I am sure I will still be able to find DVD's somewhere to buy hopefully my kids/grand kids will buy me my first 3D movie viewer/hologram player.

first off, comparing this to VHS is totally bogus. That's a different medium. You can't put a VHS tape in a DVD player ...or A SACD player ..or a computer drive. Get the picture?

It's a different medium, just like vinyl, both of which were of the analog era and crearted with a single purpose in mind.

These 5 1/4" discs were created with the intent that they could be used for many different purposes, all determined by how the discs were written and what machines they are played in.

But, you tell Joe Sixpack they are gonna stop making DVD's. I don't think he'll be too happy. There's no valid reason, aside from pure greed, that they can't make future video formats downward compatible with the current "Stone age" DVD format.