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Thread: would appreciate some help

  1. #1
    AR Newbie Registered Member
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    Question would appreciate some help

    Hi.
    Iam completely new to all things turntable related and i dont really know anything so please excuse my naiveness.
    I dont even have a proper turntable yet but i want to get the best possible setup for a budget of about $6000 so i thought that i would come here and ask for some advice.I was hoping somebody could help me out choose the right setup , and if anybody has any recommendations iam totally open to suggestions.
    So I have few options for a turntable: Pro-Ject RM10.1 Turntable , Pro-Ject Xpression Carbon Classic in Mahogany , Rega RP6 Turntable.
    and i maybe the
    Ortofon 2M Black Phono Cartridge
    As for an amplifier i was thinking about going for the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum Integrated Amp.
    Also iam not really sure which of these to get:
    Music Hall Mat or a Pro-Ject Acryl-It Platter Upgrade.
    And as for speakers i honestly have no idea which ones to get.......
    So as you can see iam pretty lost....
    Oh and by the way i dont know if i should be getting a preamp and if so, which one would you guys recommend.



  2. #2
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I think that all your choices are good ones. You should give the Needle Doctor a call and talk to them about TT's and Cartridge matching-

    Needle Doctor

    Other cartridges to consider that I have heard are the Clear Audio Virtuoso and Maestro.

    Other TT's to consider are the VPI Traveler and Scout. On the lower end, a Clear Audio Concept. I haven't heard the VPI's but the reviews are great and they are made in the U.S.

    You may also want to consider a separate phono preamp instead of using the Rogue's built in phono section.
    Last edited by blackraven; 05-03-2014 at 09:52 AM.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    lileth I see you did not fill out your profile. Can you tell us what speakers you have and any other sources so we can better advise. Another concern is room size since you are also looking for an integrated amp to drive your speakers. Is your $6,000 budget for table, cartridge and integrated amp?
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, Fanfare 3/PSU 1.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    JBL Studio 530's/Sanus SF22 stands
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  4. #4
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    thanks for the help! i really appreciate it, and i will definitely take into consideration all of the above

  5. #5
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    Oh i actually don't have anything in my setup so far, and I'am not too sure what my room size is due to the fact that I'am moving and i haven't yet chosen the place but it is most likely going to be a very small apartment, and as for my budget the $6000 would include everything the table, cartridge, amp, speakers, cables, preamp (if needed), and also I could probably raise the budget to about $8000 if necessary.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I would strongly consider the Clear Audio Concept TT with the included cartridge if your budget is $6K as you don't want to skimp on the speakers. With an $8K budget you have more options including an external phono preamp.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #7
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    If you are just beginning you may want to start with solid state opposed to tube gear. Musicdirect has the Krell S300i at a discount price with a 30 day return if not happy. Or, if wanting a tube sound look at PrimaLuna with self biasing for the tubes. I also like the Naim integrated amps.

    I second the Clearaudio but only if your floor is firm, the magnetic arms can be touchy with vibrations. I'm not hearing good things about the VPI camp, not able to supply product etc. not sure what's going on there. With a budget of $6k I wouldn't spend half of it on the table. You'll probably need a phono preamp and I'd look at those once you decide on cartridge.

    Speakers vary so much and such a personal thing. However, You shouldn't go wrong with something from Dynaudio. The bass is very good and you could even get away with a stand mount model.

    I also recommend keeping some of the budget for quality cabling.

    A lot of what is recommended depends on what type of sound you are going for, musical taste and listening habits. You give each of us $6k, send us to shop you will get several different systems. There's no right or wrong, it's finding the gear that moves you because you will be the one listening to it and maintaining it.
    Mark Levinson #512 SACD & 532h power
    Pass Labs XP-10 preamp
    Clearaudio Performance DC & Maestro v2 E, AcousTech Ph-1p
    Clarus Crimson loom - AC outlet to speaker terminal
    JBL 4367's & SAM3ha
    Revel S30's & SVS PC13 Ultra (sub)
    Marantz BD-7003 > AV-8003 > LINN 5125
    Transparent cables / Tributaries HDMI
    PS Audio Quintet & Surgex SA15&20

  8. #8
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lileth679 View Post
    Hi.
    Iam completely new to all things turntable related and i dont really know anything so please excuse my naiveness.
    I dont even have a proper turntable yet but i want to get the best possible setup for a budget of about $6000 so i thought that i would come here and ask for some advice.I was hoping somebody could help me out choose the right setup , and if anybody has any recommendations iam totally open to suggestions.
    So I have few options for a turntable: Pro-Ject RM10.1 Turntable , Pro-Ject Xpression Carbon Classic in Mahogany , Rega RP6 Turntable.
    and i maybe the
    Ortofon 2M Black Phono Cartridge
    As for an amplifier i was thinking about going for the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum Integrated Amp.
    Also iam not really sure which of these to get:
    Music Hall Mat or a Pro-Ject Acryl-It Platter Upgrade.
    And as for speakers i honestly have no idea which ones to get.......
    So as you can see iam pretty lost....
    Oh and by the way i dont know if i should be getting a preamp and if so, which one would you guys recommend.


    It seems to my you are buying in too quickly to a certain audiophile notions. Specifically (1) vinyl, (2) tubes, and (3) separates.

    Vinyl and tube amplification are popular entirely because they filter or color the music in ways that some, (OK, many), audiophiles find beguiling. But before you jump on the band wagon of euphonic rather accurate reproduction, you might be well-advised to try the latter first.

    Your question whether you should be getting a preamp depends on whether you need the extra flexibility of a preamp and the price of higher equipment cost. I decided many years ago that, as an audio hobbyist and not just a music lover, I wanted separates. However at your stage I don't think you can make that argument: I'd start with an integrated amp if I were you.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Don't dismiss tubes, especially the Rogue Audio. It has some great reviews. Take a look at this video.

    Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum - New Record Day | New Record Day

    Just remember with a full tube amp you will have to adjust the bias as the tubes age as the video shows. It is pretty crappy that they charge for the change in the remote and the problem with it only being rated for 8 ohm speakers although I suspect it would be fine with 6 ohm speakers.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  10. #10
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    i was wondering if the cables are really an important part of the setup?
    thanks again for everything!

  11. #11
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    I have found that cables are a very worth while addition to your audio system. It would make sense though to purchase the system first and get used to it's sound before experimenting with cables, not all are equal and there are a vast amount of options. You may try a brand and not like what it does where another could take the system to a higher level of performance.

    Notice most here have some type of after market cables in their system. Most were hard to convince until they finally tried for themselves..
    Mark Levinson #512 SACD & 532h power
    Pass Labs XP-10 preamp
    Clearaudio Performance DC & Maestro v2 E, AcousTech Ph-1p
    Clarus Crimson loom - AC outlet to speaker terminal
    JBL 4367's & SAM3ha
    Revel S30's & SVS PC13 Ultra (sub)
    Marantz BD-7003 > AV-8003 > LINN 5125
    Transparent cables / Tributaries HDMI
    PS Audio Quintet & Surgex SA15&20

  12. #12
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I have found that cables are a very worth while addition to your audio system. It would make sense though to purchase the system first and get used to it's sound before experimenting with cables, not all are equal and there are a vast amount of options. You may try a brand and not like what it does where another could take the system to a higher level of performance.

    Notice most here have some type of after market cables in their system. Most were hard to convince until they finally tried for themselves..
    lileth679, I agree that with Mr Peabody that experimenting with cables isn't a good place to start. Get some decent, pro-quality cables from Blue Jeans Cable for example, (HERE); they might keep you going indefinitely.

    Could be just me, but I've heard no significant differences among cables in the lower-mid to upper-mid priced range. People just getting into hi-fi with entry or mid-range equipment, like yourself, are much better off spending any extra money on other components, especially speakers and amplifiers, rather than cables, IMO.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    What Feanor said! The Blue Jeans cables would be good for phono cables due to their low capacitance.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  14. #14
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    The OP will have to experiment as suggested BJC was not hard to best, even the entry Transparent was better, noticeably better. You can't compare cheap to cheap and expect to be wow'd. If the OP went with a good amp like the Krell integrated it could easily reveal differences in cables. BJC is decent especially at the price but they do roll off the high end despite what they cclaim, and if you do any research on cable design you'll soon realize there's much more than capacitance involved.
    Mark Levinson #512 SACD & 532h power
    Pass Labs XP-10 preamp
    Clearaudio Performance DC & Maestro v2 E, AcousTech Ph-1p
    Clarus Crimson loom - AC outlet to speaker terminal
    JBL 4367's & SAM3ha
    Revel S30's & SVS PC13 Ultra (sub)
    Marantz BD-7003 > AV-8003 > LINN 5125
    Transparent cables / Tributaries HDMI
    PS Audio Quintet & Surgex SA15&20

  15. #15
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    The OP will have to experiment as suggested BJC was not hard to best, even the entry Transparent was better, noticeably better. You can't compare cheap to cheap and expect to be wow'd. If the OP went with a good amp like the Krell integrated it could easily reveal differences in cables. BJC is decent especially at the price but they do roll off the high end despite what they cclaim, and if you do any research on cable design you'll soon realize there's much more than capacitance involved.
    We needn't bicker about this. For my part I didn't say that the BJC were as good as Transparent, (for example), only that the hundreds extra spent on the latter would likely better spent on some other component.

  16. #16
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    True. You know I love you man. Just for consideration most brands have entry level 1 meter interconnects for under $100.00 a pair..
    Mark Levinson #512 SACD & 532h power
    Pass Labs XP-10 preamp
    Clearaudio Performance DC & Maestro v2 E, AcousTech Ph-1p
    Clarus Crimson loom - AC outlet to speaker terminal
    JBL 4367's & SAM3ha
    Revel S30's & SVS PC13 Ultra (sub)
    Marantz BD-7003 > AV-8003 > LINN 5125
    Transparent cables / Tributaries HDMI
    PS Audio Quintet & Surgex SA15&20

  17. #17
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    True. You know I love you man. Just for consideration most brands have entry level 1 meter interconnects for under $100.00 a pair..
    A little set back, Mr P. This morning I decided I'd try a pair of Transparent 'The Link' interconnects, US$90, to try between my DAC and preamp. When I used their 'Estimate Shipping' applet, I was able to select Canada, etc., but it responded, "Unfortunately we can't ship to your location.
    Please select another location and try again.
    " Hmm ... I wonder what other location I could select?

    A better test would be a pair of 1.5 meter balanced 'MusicLink' XLRs to put between my preamp and amp, but, that would have cost US$525 plus shipping, etc., (assuming they were willing to ship them). That is a lot of money for me and, germane to my earlier point, would be half way to the price of an Oppo 105.

  18. #18
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    A little set back, Mr P. This morning I decided I'd try a pair of Transparent 'The Link' interconnects, US$90, to try between my DAC and preamp. When I used their 'Estimate Shipping' applet, I was able to select Canada, etc., but it responded, "Unfortunately we can't ship to your location.
    Please select another location and try again.
    " Hmm ... I wonder what other location I could select?

    A better test would be a pair of 1.5 meter balanced 'MusicLink' XLRs to put between my preamp and amp, but, that would have cost US$525 plus shipping, etc., (assuming they were willing to ship them). That is a lot of money for me and, germane to my earlier point, would be half way to the price of an Oppo 105.
    Why don't you give the company a call and see if they can ship it to you?
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  19. #19
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    The guys are pretty nice at Transparent, I think I spoke to Brad Otool. If you want to send me an email with what length and termination I can check to see what deals I can find for you. I don't have an avenue for Transparent though.

    I'll still give you a gold star for the attempt
    Mark Levinson #512 SACD & 532h power
    Pass Labs XP-10 preamp
    Clearaudio Performance DC & Maestro v2 E, AcousTech Ph-1p
    Clarus Crimson loom - AC outlet to speaker terminal
    JBL 4367's & SAM3ha
    Revel S30's & SVS PC13 Ultra (sub)
    Marantz BD-7003 > AV-8003 > LINN 5125
    Transparent cables / Tributaries HDMI
    PS Audio Quintet & Surgex SA15&20

  20. #20
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    A little set back, Mr P. This morning I decided I'd try a pair of Transparent 'The Link' interconnects, US$90, to try between my DAC and preamp. When I used their 'Estimate Shipping' applet, I was able to select Canada, etc., but it responded, "Unfortunately we can't ship to your location.
    Please select another location and try again.
    " Hmm ... I wonder what other location I could select?

    A better test would be a pair of 1.5 meter balanced 'MusicLink' XLRs to put between my preamp and amp, but, that would have cost US$525 plus shipping, etc., (assuming they were willing to ship them). That is a lot of money for me and, germane to my earlier point, would be half way to the price of an Oppo 105.

    I have a pair I am not using if you want to try them. I will want them back but no hurry. I ship to Canada. Just ask PoppaC.
    Mr Peabody and Feanor like this.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, Fanfare 3/PSU 1.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    JBL Studio 530's/Sanus SF22 stands
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  21. #21
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I have a pair I am not using if you want to try them. I will want them back but no hurry. I ship to Canada. Just ask PoppaC.
    As an impecunious skeptic I'd really appreciate the chance of trying before buying. I'll PM you, JM.

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