Why "Source 1st" advocates have a tough time

[Ajani]

The reviewers are irresponsible or you are reading more into the statements than what was meant. This is a futile discussion unless you have heard for yourself.

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I'd love to get my hands on an 840 or a Marantz 8001 just to see what all the hype is about. While I'm sure they are decent, I can't imagine them outperforming the Arcam, or if some one thought so, not by much. Making statements like, "the 840c is as good as any CD player under $5k" is just untrue and irresponsible. And people wonder why these rags have such a bad rep in the high end community. Even Emaidel who was definitely a diminishing return guy has to admit the benefits of a good source, he's been posting raves about the improvement in his system ever since he added his 8001.

I lumped these 2 points together since the 2nd one pretty much answers your first question... I'm sure that I'm not reading too much into "the 840c is as good as any CD player under $5k"...

So far I've not really given my opinion on source.... but I suppose I might as well, rather than have everyone assume that I am a source basher (which I'm not)... ALL parts of the replay chain are important!

Given that 1 magazine will rave that a particular CD player is the best thing under $5K, while another mag, will just regard that player as decent value for money... I believe that reviewers are probably irresponsible i.e. option A in my original post....

I don't believe all CD players sound the same... I won't comment on the expensive players (since even though I've heard high-end Arcam, Musical Fidelity and NAD CD players... I have not done direct comparisons)... however, I have done direct comparisions on the entry level stuff: NAD & Marantz CD Players versus Panasonic DVD player, Apple Airport Express & MAC mini... and YES there are differences between all 5.... Are the differences worth it? Well that's up the ears of the purchaser... Personally I'd save some more money for something a little better if I already had one of those as source, rather than 'upgrading' from say a basic $100 DVD player to a $300 CD Player...

Bobsticks, Krell is similar to Naim in the fact that they have best synergy with their own kind. Once I started converting my system my 280cd began to stick out and not mesh well with the other components in comparisons to other digital playback, like my Audio Note DAC. Since my taste had changed to a different type of presentation I ended up selling the Krell.

I 100% agree on System Synergy... that is part of the reason so many well loved products get bashed by someone who just buys one based on a good review and dumps it in his system... e.g. there is one real trashing of the Monitor Audio RS6 speakers in the reviews section of this site, by someone who paired them with an all Naim setup... now had he done some research before buying, he'd have seen that MA and Naim is generally regarded as a very bad pairing (bright and aggressive).... You really have to hear products with complimentary gear befores you can really judge whether or not you like the brand...

All CD players do not sound the same. I have heard this over and over. Just recently I went in looking for a good CDP to use as a transport. They had a NAD Master Series SACD and Arcam, I can't remember the model but it was the top of the line in the Diva series at around $1,500.00. We started listening, Redbook only, and the two players had distinctively different sounds. The NAD was very warm and seemed to give the instruments a thicker or realistic feel but this was at the sacrafice of some detail and nimbleness compared to the Arcam. Either probably would have made a fine transport, I should have taken the cheapest and ran. Then the guy brought in this T+A unit, this player is amazing, It made the Arcam which is an excellent player sound veiled, that's how good the T+A is. It is about twice the money but there isn't any diminishing return in this comparison because there is a huge improvement. I brought it home and hooked my AN DAC to the digital out for a little shoot out. I'm buying a processor and it wasn't a good time to buy a new CDP, and especially this kind of money. So I really wanted my AN to hold it's own. I'm sure a post will pop soon with the insulting psycho babble crap. This wasn't DBT, it was listening to certain songs several times back and forth for differences in the two DAC's. The comparison was tough, because the sound stages were different sizes, this could be due to phase inversion by the AN DAC, the T+A has a inverter switch but I didn't know it at the time. So I began listening just for certain characteristics and one or two instruments at a time, trying to ignore the rest of the song. In this comparison it may be diminishing returns but the improvement with the T+A was significant enough I didn't want to go without it. The AN had a certain something due to it's design and being tubes but the T+A was better in almost everything, most noticeable was the amount and extension of the bass response and the ease in which the detail stood out. T+A is solid state but it doesn't sound like it, nor does it sound like tubes either. I hesitate to write a review because I'm not sure exactly how to describe it. It manages to sound pleasant and musical while still delivering tons of detail and high/low frequency extension.

The Diva was probably the CD192... I've heard it on Totem, B&W and Dynaudio... Arcam, NAD etc... all have unique sounds... so it all comes back to System Synergy...

If the CD is dead what will take it's place? It's the first time I've seen a prediction like that without an actual format to step in. Are you incenuating downloads? Maybe Blu-ray?

Actually I was just refering to an interesting debate about whether CD is dying... My personal opinion is that the CD Player will die long before the CD dies.... A CD can be played in just about anything now, from DVD player, Blu Ray Player, Computer to Toaster...

What I see happening is that more people (both the masses and audiophiles) will migrate from playing CDs on a CD player to ripping their collections (in uncompressed formats) to Music Servers (whether computer based or standalone)... Downloads will take a while to satisfy audiophiles simply because very few sites offer lossless downloads + some are still tied to DRM...So I don't expect downloads to fully catch on untill DRM is dead (or at least not a PITA) and all files are lossless....

Vinyl will remain, since there is no direct substitute for it... CD and Vinyl just sounds, feels and looks different... Vinyl fans refuse to even switch to CD, so I can't see them being swayed by a Music Server... CD and lossless files on a Music Server sound identical.... so it's not a hard sell (even for audiophiles)....