Why no pictures????

[PeruvianSkies]

...first, pictures or no, there are those of us who think Flo is certainly full of something...and that would be of himself...although he seems to be getting a grip on that...and BTW what's to stop anyone from posing at a friend's house or somesuch and having a pic to post...I mean I have a pic of myself at the White House, but that don't mean I'm president! And don't get yer lederhosen in a knot Flo...it's just a f'rinstance...

Many of us don't have digicams...or scanners...or the time...

And what does a pic or two or some laundry list of gear in your sig indicate? Or photos? There is a philosphy that the gear you have is irrelevant...I mean I could go to my local audio salon plunk down $25k and say "outfit me with your best". What does that prove? Probably that I have more money than brains. Much like price vs. performance, it means zippp...

So as far as I'm concerned, you'll have to take me at my word...my speakers are in one room...connected by 50ft/ch of 10ga. to my mostly vintage gear in my custom-built rack with various patch cords connecting some outboard electronics, in the "music room" with a few guitars and keyboards, which is usually in a state unsuitable for public display...nothing to brag about, just off the shelf stuff that I've collected over the last 35 years or so, along with the knowledge and experience to extract quite a bit out of seemingly very little...

jimHJJ(...you know, like any hobbyist does...)

Right right right....I gotcha. Actually I don't. If this were soley a website on audio stuff than I might understand, but part of this site is about photos and I think everyone should post pictures of their gear or even other gear, just to have pictures is part of the fun of it. Sure, some might lie about their equipment, but that's not really the point. They could lie about many other things as well.

You can come up with lots of excuses for NOT posting pictures and I could understand if you don't have the camera or the scanner, but nowadays that's stretching it a bit as even most phones can take decent pictures. As far as time is concerned...HAHA. You post dozens of responses and lengthy debates I am sure you could squeeze a few more seconds from your life and grab some shots....It takes all of about 5 seconds.

Photos are not for an ego trip, it's fun to share what you have with others and for others to gain ideas and to share ideas. It would be great if the people on here with so many opinions and 'experience' to maybe demonstate some of that by seeing what you have in your setup, versus the mental picture that we are suppose to assert.

[Resident Loser]

Right right right....I gotcha. Actually I don't. If this were soley a website on audio stuff than I might understand, but part of this site is about photos and I think everyone should post pictures of their gear or even other gear, just to have pictures is part of the fun of it. Sure, some might lie about their equipment, but that's not really the point. They could lie about many other things as well.

You can come up with lots of excuses for NOT posting pictures and I could understand if you don't have the camera or the scanner, but nowadays that's stretching it a bit as even most phones can take decent pictures. As far as time is concerned...HAHA. You post dozens of responses and lengthy debates I am sure you could squeeze a few more seconds from your life and grab some shots....It takes all of about 5 seconds.

Photos are not for an ego trip, it's fun to share what you have with others and for others to gain ideas and to share ideas. It would be great if the people on here with so many opinions and 'experience' to maybe demonstate some of that by seeing what you have in your setup, versus the mental picture that we are suppose to assert.

...here's one for ya...no cell phone, don't need one, just one single touch-tone telset (no clock, no caller ID, no distinctive ring or call waiting or...) connected to a landline...Don't need to be connected 24/7...I don't think that highly of myself...so no digicam, no scanner...zero...and I have a SONY Hi-Fi VCR and a 19 Magnavox tee-vee...nothing resembling HT...The JVC DVD player was a result of opening a bank account...and then there's my GPX port CDP ($7 after rebate) from Sears and my modded $6 SONY phones from Wal-Mart...Of course my Senn HD-414s and STAX SR-44s do have their place...

The rest of my stuff is an assortment of mfrs. B*I*C, Audio-Technica, Phillips, Stanton, BSR/Heathkit, Lafayette Radio, Pioneer, Onkyo, TEAC, TASCAM, Marantz, SAE, Audio Control, Sound Concepts, Harman Kardon and BOSE...all housed in a "rack" I designed and built myself...again, nothing particularly spectacular, but IMNSHO capable of some spectacular results...best of all, it's all taught me quite a bit over the years...

And yes, I do take the time to post a bit, but I'd rather try to provide info and debunk hype based on my level of experience and common sense rather than on the depth of my pockets or the WOW! factor of my posessions...

jimHJJ(...BTW, I drive a 16-yr. old Jeep, which like my audio gear I maintain myself...like any good hobbyist...)

[Rich-n-Texas]

...The rest of my stuff is an assortment of mfrs. B*I*C, Audio-Technica, Phillips, Stanton, BSR/Heathkit, Lafayette Radio, Pioneer, Onkyo, TEAC, TASCAM, Marantz, SAE, Audio Control, Sound Concepts, Harman Kardon and BOSE...all housed in a "rack" I designed and built myself...again, nothing particularly spectacular, but IMNSHO capable of some spectacular results...best of all, it's all taught me quite a bit over the years......

jimHJJ(...BTW, I drive a 16-yr. old Jeep, which like my audio gear I maintain myself...like any good hobbyist...)

B*I*C??? Audio-Technica??? Heathkit??? Lafayette??? Oh My Gosh!!!

I remember ALL of these brands. When I was in high school, my major was Electric shop. That was between 1971 & 75, and I almost bought a Heathkit (build it yourself) stereo amplifier, I think it was. IIRC, B*I*C made record players, Audio-Technica: phono cartridges (still do) and didn't Lafayette get bought out by Tandy corp. way back in the late 70's? BTW, I have an AKAI M9 reel-to-reel recorder with the "original Crossfield 4 Track Recording heads". Whaddaya think of that?!?!?

Your post here jimHJJ just taught me something about you, and that is... you're as old as me!!!

Seriously though, I think PS's intention here was an honorable one; it's usually not hard to separate the genuine personalities from the false prophets, and I do plan to post some pictures of my HT as soon as it's complete. Here are my two excuses:

1. My HT room right now is occupied by an 800 lb. pool table, which sits dead center of the living room. My original intention for that room was to have a nice game room, but I soon realized that trying to furnish one is beyond my means.
2. My home computer is in a bad way right now, so I don't have the necessary tools to post up pictures.

In my original sig I mentioned that my B&W's were discontimued but that I didn't care because they were free. I removed that part when it came to me that I may be creating the impression that unlike probably everybody else on this forum, I'm bragging about something that I didn't work for or came into honestly.

[clearing conscience]Make no mistake, I consider myself very fortunate to have been in the right place at the right time when I and my co-workers were requested to clean out an audio device development lab here at work. I believe that when this equipment was offered to me, I took the proper and ethical steps before I brought them home. But having said that, please feel free to reach out and slap me in the event I forget my place.[/clearing conscience]

I spent over an hour the other day looking at pictures of peoples setups mainly to get some ideas about how and what room treatments were applied because I'll probably have LFE & high frequency issues to deal with when all's said and done. I've gotten good advice on that subject from members here, but pictures sometimes make visualizing the advice more clear. The pictures also give me reinforcement about the ideas I already have implemented.

Anyway, this is a very entertaining thread, and I vote to make PS camp counselor!

[SlumpBuster]

...I don't think that highly of myself...

but I'd rather try to provide info and debunk hype based on my level of experience and common sense

Those are a little inconsistent. You do think highly enough of yourself to offer advice based on experience. Why disparage people who need cell phones by implying that they think too highly of themselves?

Also, Kex is right. You're not being misinterpretted. Your initial post essentially said "Post pics or you're suspect."

But, in your defense, I do "get" what your saying. It may be a generational thing. Lots of people fake out on the internet. RL may say "Why would anyone lie?" That's the question I asked often about a member of my gaming clan that always refused to get on headset. I don't know why anyone would pretend to be a teenage girl, but I'm pretty sure that person was. Maybe RL's just too much of a grandpa to understand the concerns of the interwebs.

Accordingly, I'm game. I'll post some picks of my decidedly, not-that-expensive, mid fi rig, then you can decide if i'm suspect or not.

PS Feanor's chair looks like something you could be "serviced" in. (I know that's not his system)

[kexodusc]

It would be great if the people on here with so many opinions and 'experience' to maybe demonstate some of that by seeing what you have in your setup, versus the mental picture that we are suppose to assert.

These are just the absolute wrong reasons to post a picture of your equipment.

I've never really given thought to the scenario that some posters might be lying about what gear they own. What would the motive for that be? I'd feel sorry for them if they feel the need to do that because of bad experiences they've had with this, or other audio forums.
I've only known a few individuals in the last 4 years who've ever implied they have X level of knowledge because they own certain gear.

There's a real bad tendency to judge people by the pricetag on their gear. Unfortunately this can lead to newbies taking less than optimal advice.

Experience is demonstrated by the knowledge and help someone provides, not the amount of money they spend or eye-candy they put up for display. I've found the most frugal personalities here to be among the most valuable and experienced contributors.

[Carl Reid]

These are just the absolute wrong reasons to post a picture of your equipment.

I've never really given thought to the scenario that some posters might be lying about what gear they own. What would the motive for that be? I'd feel sorry for them if they feel the need to do that because of bad experiences they've had with this, or other audio forums.
I've only known a few individuals in the last 4 years who've ever implied they have X level of knowledge because they own certain gear.

There's a real bad tendency to judge people by the pricetag on their gear. Unfortunately this can lead to newbies taking less than optimal advice.

Experience is demonstrated by the knowledge and help someone provides, not the amount of money they spend or eye-candy they put up for display. I've found the most frugal personalities here to be among the most valuable and experienced contributors.

I'll 2nd this point.... having expensive equipment is not a reflection of audio knowledge.... at most it MAY be a reflection of income.... but even that is not guaranteed....

Some of the most knowledgeable members of this forum have relatively humble setups.... and some of the members with very expensive gear.... well, I'll just leave it at that....

I don't mind posting pics for fun, but we shouldn't take pics too seriously.....

[E-Stat]

There's a real bad tendency to judge people by the pricetag on their gear. Unfortunately this can lead to newbies taking less than optimal advice.

Agreed. For me, it is not about ownership, but exposure and experience. I don't know of anyone who owns a symphony orchestra themselves, but I put more creedence in the opinions of those who have extended exposure to hearing live unamplified music to those who have not.

Before I accepted the position as a moderator (and thus try to be less forward presenting my opinions), I got into a disagreement with a poster over experience. Apparently, he had worked his entire life with television and consumer electronics repair. He had extensive experience with some gear. But zero regarding the topic of discussion. His comments were solely based upon speculation. If the question is automobile performance, I'd rather listen to a guy who has track time with a Modena than a Montana.

rw

[kexodusc]

Agreed. For me, it is not about ownership, but exposure and experience. I don't know of anyone who owns a symphony orchestra themselves, but I put more creedence in the opinions of those who have extended exposure to hearing live unamplified music to those who have not.

Exposure and experience - good points. There's people whose opinions I really value because of their exposure, guys like Topspeed, Geoffcin (whatever happened to him) know their gear and are fairly unbiased when providing assessments. Experience, well, I take that with a grain of salt. Technical experience I value highly because in my own experience, there's a fantastic correlation between sound quality and sound design based on proven science. Though, it's disappointing when long held beliefs or positions blind people to possibilities. Subjective experience I'm more cautious in accepting - I hear different than other people. And there's too much ego, legend, and snake oil in audio to rely on this kind of experience unless you know the individual's tastes and preference are very much like your own.

Your last comment is something I totally agree with. Except I would further expand that to include amplified music. Just my preference, but I listen to a lot of it. Gear I like is faithful to both, I don't find these two to be mutually exclusive. Though I can appreciate distortion in amplified music can have the effect of masking flaws in lesser equipment.

Good comments!

[SlumpBuster]

No, RL, I saw your ideas as being related. You don't post photos because you don't own the gadjets to do it. You find those people who own the gadjets to be annoying and believe they think too highly of themselves. Thus, those people that might post pics must think too highly of themselves.

You state that you call them as you see them. But you don't. You use sarcasim to make your venom more palatable. Often times it works. Many times its funny. And, to your credit, your sig generally lets people know where your coming from. But you fail to get as good as you give, which dulls your edge.

If the ideas are truely unrelated as you state, i.e. goofing on yuppies in a post about pics, then I will call it as I see it: That would be a trollish post.

Now excuse me: I have to turn off my Chocolate because my On Star conseirge is calling back with my confirmed dinner and show reservations. And, I have to cut off this tool in traffic ahead of me without looking.

[Resident Loser]

No, RL, I saw your ideas as being related. You don't post photos because you don't own the gadjets to do it. You find those people who own the gadjets to be annoying and believe they think too highly of themselves. Thus, those people that might post pics must think too highly of themselves.

You state that you call them as you see them. But you don't. You use sarcasim to make your venom more palatable. Often times it works. Many times its funny. And, to your credit, your sig generally lets people know where your coming from. But you fail to get as good as you give, which dulls your edge.

If the ideas are truely unrelated as you state, i.e. goofing on yuppies in a post about pics, then I will call it as I see it: That would be a trollish post.

Now excuse me: I have to turn off my Chocolate because my On Star conseirge is calling back with my confirmed dinner and show reservations. And, I have to cut off this tool in traffic ahead of me without looking.

...we can follow this...I don't post pics because in addition to a lack of certain required, but IMO non-essential gadgetry, I chose not to...My response to PS (in respone to his generalized inquiry) gave reasons why some (keep in mind his post gave the impression of a generalized inquiry, there is a reason why I stress this, but read on MacDuff)....and not just myself, might not be able to do so...Bada-bing,,,bada-boom, finito...

Then...as if in some "AHAH!" moment, PS responds, in a way less generalized manner:

...You can come up with lots of excuses for NOT posting pictures and I could understand if you don't have the camera or the scanner, but nowadays that's stretching it a bit as even most phones can take decent pictures...

Firstly, I'm not making excuses...an excuse gives the impression that I must seek some sort of absolution for my Luddite "transgressions"...Again, at this point, I am responding to PS and his generalized (there's that word again) inquiry as to why folks don't or won't post...Prior generalities then become specific...The part that stews my prunes is the absolute astonishment...no, no, make that hubris on his part that someone might not own a cell-phone, particularly with pic cabability...to which I responded in kind with:

...here's one for ya...no cell phone, don't need one, just one single touch-tone telset (no clock, no caller ID, no distinctive ring or call waiting or...) connected to a landline...Don't need to be connected 24/7...I don't think that highly of myself...

I didn't bring up cell-phones...but I sure did respond...Finito redux...

Now for your response...I have no problem with gadgetry...I don't find people who spend their lives at The Sharper Image and like places, buying like wares, annoying...I find folks who have not one wit of common courtesy and/or impinge on innocent bystanders annoying...there's a reason there used to be telephone booths...nobody wants to hear your lame-o commuiques...or your screamin' rugrats (get a sitter)...lessee where that'll go...

Once in a while I find some of the pics of the more esoteric gear, a, er...interesting...Never ending sigs or photos? Well, folks do what they do...Not my cuppa' gov...reminds me of jewelry and horrific amounts of perfume, ostentatious, useless affectation, since much of it is contrived and deliberate. It exhibits itself in the guise of posessions being indicative of some higher level of expertise or somesuch. NOT! Just my POV...Took issue with the egoist ramifications of elaborate sigs w/TtT and others, much like I took issue with JR and his endless "links" most of which were of his own self-promoting device...it's what I do...somebody has to...my raison d'etre...my conceptual continuity...Oh yeah, most do it because they wanna' share...mea culpa...[/I]mea maxima culpa[/I]...(if you're Catholic and of a certain age, you know those phrases).

BTW, I never called anyone yuppy...didn't that term die when "Thirtysomething" passed on?

With regard to your last paragraph, yeah, that's about right...Would that be in a Caddy or Lincoln pick-up? Do you think "high occupancy lane" is really English for auotbahn?

jimHJJ(...sarcasm makes my venom more palatable???...I'll hafta' work on that...BTW, I'm tradin' all my gear for mtrycrafts' boombox, retrofitted with solid silver speaker wires...)

[PeruvianSkies]

...we can follow this...I don't post pics because in addition to a lack of certain required, but IMO non-essential gadgetry, I chose not to...My response to PS (in respone to his generalized inquiry) gave reasons why some (keep in mind his post gave the impression of a generalized inquiry, there is a reason why I stress this, but read on MacDuff)....and not just myself, might not be able to do so...Bada-bing,,,bada-boom, finito...

Then...as if in some "AHAH!" moment, PS responds, in a way less generalized manner:



Firstly, I'm not making excuses...an excuse gives the impression that I must seek some sort of absolution for my Luddite "transgressions"...Again, at this point, I am responding to PS and his generalized (there's that word again) inquiry as to why folks don't or won't post...Prior generalities then become specific...The part that stews my prunes is the absolute astonishment...no, no, make that hubris on his part that someone might not own a cell-phone, particularly with pic cabability...to which I responded in kind with:



I didn't bring up cell-phones...but I sure did respond...Finito redux...

Now for your response...I have no problem with gadgetry...I don't find people who spend their lives at The Sharper Image and like places, buying like wares, annoying...I find folks who have not one wit of common courtesy and/or impinge on innocent bystanders annoying...there's a reason there used to be telephone booths...nobody wants to hear your lame-o commuiques...or your screamin' rugrats (get a sitter)...lessee where that'll go...

Once in a while I find some of the pics of the more esoteric gear, a, er...interesting...Never ending sigs or photos? Well, folks do what they do...Not my cuppa' gov...reminds me of jewelry and horrific amounts of perfume, ostentatious, useless affectation, since much of it is contrived and deliberate. It exhibits itself in the guise of posessions being indicative of some higher level of expertise or somesuch. NOT! Just my POV...Took issue with the egoist ramifications of elaborate sigs w/TtT and others, much like I took issue with JR and his endless "links" most of which were of his own self-promoting device...it's what I do...somebody has to...my raison d'etre...my conceptual continuity...Oh yeah, most do it because they wanna' share...mea culpa...[/I]mea maxima culpa[/I]...(if you're Catholic and of a certain age, you know those phrases).

BTW, I never called anyone yuppy...didn't that term die when "Thirtysomething" passed on?

With regard to your last paragraph, yeah, that's about right...Would that be in a Caddy or Lincoln pick-up? Do you think "high occupancy lane" is really English for auotbahn?

jimHJJ(...sarcasm makes my venom more palatable???...I'll hafta' work on that...BTW, I'm tradin' all my gear for mtrycrafts' boombox, retrofitted with solid silver speaker wires...)

It's nearly impossible to understand this jibberish. Not because we are uneducated and can't comprehend your use of complex words and phrases or different languages, but because you say alot and mean very little. What exactly are you trying to say?

It seems to be that you get a little excited over any reason to debate and when you feel attacked, you get defensive. I could care less if you agree with my opinion about posting pictures. I think that most people are in agreement that pictures do serve a purpose and those who cannot back their blabbering are usually the ones to get the most defensive.

You talk on and on and on about your "EXPERIENCE" and yadda yadda yadda, but experience is not everything. It helps, but that's only dependant upon the quality of that experience. I know people that have 30 years experience playing guitar, but are easily blown away by 13 year old kids who have only been playing a few months. That's called talent, raw talent. Some people also have natural talent when it comes to audio as well. They are able to hear and notice things differently and also dedicate more time and energy into perfecting the craft and the ongoing pursuit of achieving better sound reproduction.

You claim that you are not posting pictures because of two reasons: you are not interested in doing so and you don't have the necessary means to do so. Fine. Move on then. Leave this thread alone and let those who have something important to say, since this thread no longer pertains to you. You know people like me and my GENERALIZATIONS.

[E-Stat]

Technical experience I value highly because in my own experience, there's a fantastic correlation between sound quality and sound design based on proven science.

And yet, there is some data that while possible to quantify, is rarely available. Here's but one example. Since my choice of speakers exhibits a highly reactive load, they present a challenge to many amplifiers that can result in audible differences. While one can quantify IV analysis in all four quadrants of an amplifier, conventional testing stands mute on that issue. A dummy resistive load is useless in that regard. Therefore, my choice of amp in that system is necessarily affected by its ability to deal with a reactive load.

Except I would further expand that to include amplified music. Just my preference, but I listen to a lot of it. Gear I like is faithful to both, I don't find these two to be mutually exclusive.

Perhaps I should refine my comments. I, too enjoy and listen to a great deal of amplified pop and jazz/new age music. While I enjoy those genres, the "live" reference of these is usually crippled by ear bleeding levels and a less than optimum presentation. I find most good home audio systems are "better" than live in that respect.

rw

[kexodusc]

And yet, there is some data that while possible to quantify, is rarely available. Here's but one example. Since my choice of speakers exhibits a highly reactive load, they present a challenge to many amplifiers that can result in audible differences. While one can quantify IV analysis in all four quadrants of an amplifier, conventional testing stands mute on that issue. A dummy resistive load is useless in that regard. Therefore, my choice of amp in that system is necessarily affected by its ability to deal with a reactive load.

Ok, if you say so. That doesn't change the fact I value technical experience based on my observed correlations between sound quality and sound design practices.

If anything I think you've just re-enforced my earlier point - you're selecting an amplifier based on symptoms you've been able to assign to the reactive load of your speakers. If you are absolutely correct in your assessment, then there's some correlation between pleasing sound and amps that don't mind the reactive load. That's more accurate than "I think this can sound better, maybe I need a new amp". You've followed that correlation to a conclusion. That's the kind of experience that blends subjectivity and objectivity that we should see more of.

That's a much more reasoned and calculated process than simply assuming "more power will make those speakers sound better, always".
Too often a person's answer is to throw more money at their system's perceived weak spots. Often they're assessment of a system's weakness is off, and the proposed solution is ineffective at addressing the true weakness. Even worse, they spend their money on an upgrade, and the sound is different, even improved. It's not the optimal upgrade, and the original weakness remains, though the new system sound is better. Voila! - a false cause-and-effect relationship is born. This sage then proceeds to pass his wisdom on to the next budding audiophile. Meanwhile, the most cost-effective, highest yield improvement is overlooked. That's the kind of experience we could use less of.

[E-Stat]

Ok, if you say so. That doesn't change the fact I value technical experience based on my observed correlations between sound quality and sound design practices.

Don't get me wrong - I welcome any and all measurements that correlate to real world performance. Unfortunately, those remain relatively rare with the usual collection of specifications and test results.

If anything I think you've just re-enforced my earlier point - you're selecting an amplifier based on symptoms you've been able to assign to the reactive load of your speakers. If you are absolutely correct in your assessment, then there's some correlation between pleasing sound and amps that don't mind the reactive load. That's more accurate than "I think this can sound better, maybe I need a new amp". You've followed that correlation to a conclusion. That's the kind of experience that blends subjectivity and objectivity that we should see more of.

I'm glad we agree. As a programmer, I inherently like the elegance of math - where it applies.

That's a much more reasoned and calculated process than simply assuming "more power will make those speakers sound better, always".
Too often a person's answer is to throw more money at their system's perceived weak spots. Often they're assessment of a system's weakness is off, and the proposed solution is ineffective at addressing the true weakness.

If nothing else, what I have learned in my long audio journey is that system matching is everything.

rw

[Rock789]

If anything I think you've just re-enforced my earlier point - you're selecting an amplifier based on symptoms you've been able to assign to the reactive load of your speakers. If you are absolutely correct in your assessment, then there's some correlation between pleasing sound and amps that don't mind the reactive load.

we need to start getting VAR specs on speakers and VAR capability on amps :rofl:

question, do planar speakers have a capacitive load?
hehe

later
Mike

[topspeed]

Before I accepted the position as a moderator (and thus try to be less forward presenting my opinions), I got into a disagreement with a poster over experience...

I don't know if this was one of Eric's requirements, but I disagree with this completely. I value and miss both Geoffcin's and your input on a number of topics. One of the reasons you were appointed as a mod was your level of experience and ability to relay that knowledge with an even hand. The board is a lesser place without that input and I for one would greatly welcome more interaction from the mods.

If the question is automobile performance, I'd rather listen to a guy who has track time with a Modena than a Montana.

rw

Not to nit pick, but while your example was good for alliterative purposes, cars are a bad example simply because performance is an objective, not subjective measuring stick. A car (or minivan) goes 0-60 in X seconds, does the quarter in X seconds at X mph, laps the Nordschliefe in X min, X seconds. Audio is almost purely subjective (how else to explain SVI?!?). A person that has track time in a Montana is just as likely to give you good feedback as a person with a Modena. In fact, if he was faster in the Montana, I'd really like to pick his brain!

[E-Stat]

I don't know if this was one of Eric's requirements, but I disagree with this completely. I value and miss both Geoffcin's and your input on a number of topics. One of the reasons you were appointed as a mod was your level of experience and ability to relay that knowledge with an even hand. The board is a lesser place without that input and I for one would greatly welcome more interaction from the mods.

No, I was not told to "tone down" by anyone - that was my perception of what I should do as moderator. Perhaps I overcompensated. Thank you very much for your comments.

Not to nit pick, but while your example was good for alliterative purposes, cars are a bad example simply because performance is an objective, not subjective measuring stick. A car (or minivan) goes 0-60 in X seconds, does the quarter in X seconds at X mph, laps the Nordschliefe in X min, X seconds....A person that has track time in a Montana is just as likely to give you good feedback as a person with a Modena.

My point is that for someone whose ultimate point of reference is cornering at .68 Gs (with severe understeer), they really cannot appreciate what it is like at .95 Gs. Or what it is like to countersteer a transition from oversteer with the rear end hanging loose. That experience is completely absent. If your point of reference is a system with modest capabilities, then it is impossible to imagine what it like to hear a system with higher resolution. How do you know what you don't know? Further, it takes time to develop one's skill at discerning what those differences are (or driving at a much more spirited pace for that matter).

I was certainly not able to fully absorb all the information presented the first time I heard a truly world class system. Or each time I hear the constantly changing systems of my reviewer friends (and mentors for the past 30 odd years). It takes practice. Lots. Which for me is a lot of fun. Listening has always been an active sport. I tend to be a hyper individual and it is a way to keep my mind busy. It is the enjoyment of discovering something new in the completely familiar.

Audio is almost purely subjective (how else to explain SVI?!?).

I will respectfully disagree. Yes, preferences certainly play a role. The discernment of differences, however, should not. Regarding SVI, our young enthusiast needs some guidance. While I was never, um exactly quite like him, I benefited from several older and wiser audio and music enthusiasts when I was much younger. Exposed me to a completely different world of music and audio gear.

Thanks again for the feedback.

rw