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  1. #1
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Who or what is a Audiophile?

    According to Wikipedia an audiophile is a hobbyist who seeks high quality audio reproduction via the use of specialized high end audio electronics. This explanation makes no distinction between a two channel system, or a multi-channel system, yet we always associated audiophiles with two channel system guys. Why is that? Surely a multi-channel system can be assembled to meet the objectives of this definition, but two channel guys almost always look down on multi-channel systems as inferior to two channel system. Why is that? Is it the hardware, or is it the software? Since there are high resolution multi-channel recordings and high quality systems to play them on, why wouldn't a multi-channel loving individual not be called an audiophile?

    I had this discussion with another audio engineer at the studio I work at, and it was interesting and enlightening. He calls himself and audiophile because he has a high end two channel system, and I asserted that I was also an audiophile but I happen to own nothing but multi-channel systems. He does not consider a multi-channel system "audiophile" in spite of the fact it fits the definition to a tee. I thought that was interesting, and want to read and exchange thoughts with others here.
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    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    To me it's anyone concerned with the pursuit of audio. It certainly CAN'T be measured by the gear. For example, my wife would listen to music from an alarm clock and be fine with it, she simply doesn't care. For those people who hear the alarm clock and think "nah, that's not it"...and act on their laurels...audiophile.

  3. #3
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I'd say Wikipedia is wrong on this one. Audio + phile looks pretty simple to me. The criterion is the intent or passion of the person, not the gear itself. I agree with poppa...can't judge the definition of that word by the gear.

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    I think an audiophile is concerned with reproducing the sound of live acoustic music (TAS). The multi-channel systems I have heard easily beat two channel systems in many respects, sounding especially alive and three-dimensional. Cost and space is a problem for me, but if I had a larger listening room and hit the lotto, I would definitely get a SOTA multi-channel audio system. Two channel can only do so much. JGH was a big fan of multi-channel audio BTW.

  5. #5
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    If the equipment is separated from the name, then why are the words "high end" associated with the name audiophile. Why do audiophile based mag's mostly review equipment that is considered "high end"? Why do audiophiles typically spend a ton of cash on their system? There must be some performance expectation with audiophiles, hence the capital outlay on their system.

    Somehow the equipment and its playback capabilities play into the audiophile label. I have never heard a owner of a Klipsch Quintet system call himself an audiophile.
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    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    There seems to be a dislike for the term among many people who I would say fit my definition. They wouldn't call themselves that. They see audiophiles as snobs. By my definition I'd call myself an audiophile, although by the standards of the magazines my gear is entry level or even budget.

  7. #7
    Ajani
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    I see no reason why a Multi-Channel Lover couldn't be defined as an audiophile... I think the thing to keep in mind is that generally audiophiles are (often correctly) regarded as being snotty and full of it... So if you don't own a turntable and use tubes, then you're not interested in sound quality, etc... Audiophiles too often fall into little warring factions, intent on somehow convincing everyone else that their way is the ONLY way... So being inclusive of other preferences, such as multi-channel, is not very likely...

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I think an audiophile is a music lover who searches out the best equipment he/she can afford to bring them closest to the music they love. They are also in my opinion the ones who carefully place the system in the room with regards to best sound. Audiophiles use various accessories to help components work their best. Audiophiles listen to music as intently as someone might watch a movie or read a book.
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    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Any one who has one of these systems-

    http://www.higherfi.com/million/

    and maybe Florian

    and this guy- http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-v4OqFOL-Mc...sh+youtube.png
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  10. #10
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I think an audiophile is a music lover who searches out the best equipment he/she can afford to bring them closest to the music they love. They are also in my opinion the ones who carefully place the system in the room with regards to best sound. Audiophiles use various accessories to help components work their best. Audiophiles listen to music as intently as someone might watch a movie or read a book.
    Now this I agree with wholeheartedly. This applies whether your system is 2.0 or 7.1.
    Sir Terrence

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  11. #11
    RGA
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    Sir T

    You're an audiophile - audiophile = sound lover.

    It doesn't matter if I like SET and HE and you like multi-channel high power SS - because the word Love has a huge dose of subjectivity to it. I like tall women (err won't say no to short ones either :-) - but some guys like certain types. You get the idea.

    And I may be a SET guy for two channel music but I am quite happy to enjoy a big baddass multi-channel rig.

    Soundhounds is a long time dealer and they made a system using AN E's in corners - AN J as paired Center channel speakers and rears. No Sub necessary. I did not hear it but it worked unbelievably well in their set-up with SACD and home theater.

    I think MC gets knocked largely because of the expense involved. I have heard lots of multi-channel set-ups but if I don't like the sound of the speakers in 2 channel - I don't see how adding 5-6 more of those speakers is going to make it better. And the speakers I like cost a bomb.

    Further - you go to places like CES and no one demonstrates what such systems can do. You have the opportunity to hear it with high quality ATC speakers - and you don't seem to have a normal budget for this gear.

    You kind of have to put yourself in the average non top 1% of income earners and realize that most people who judge multi-channel sound are listening to it on a $700 Yamaha Receiver with a bunch of $400 loudspeakers and a $500 subwoofer. Err a glorified home theater in a box set-up. It sounds bloody awful - passable for an explosion in Terminator 2 in that passable is better than the TV speakers but it's not good in any music terms.

    There will always be the 2 channel purists - but if you're music was recorded in 2 channel and most of it is - then you judge the reproduction in 2 channel. For me to equal that in multi-channel I need to buy 4 sets of my speakers which jumps from $5k to $20k just in speakers - then I need an amplifier that doesn't sound like a Bryston. I know you like it but I don't - for me to be happy it has to sound like what I perceive to be "correct" even if that is different than your perception.

    The amount of money would be ridiculous. The alternative is to build a dedicated second system strictly for listening to multi-channel.

    I actually considered this - In this most recent issue of Hi-Fi Choice they reviewed the new budget system from Audio Note. I coold handle that and then add a multi-processor to the mix and the speakers are cheap and cheerful to listen to. I could have my mix of old school tonal richness and designed by someone who actually listens to music not just reading from a graph on a test bench - whilst adding the cutting edge processing to process the recordings. And perhaps do it inexpensively since my room is not the size of a Gym.

    Bottom line - there is room for it all. Amazingly people don't always agree with my views - I can't imagine why since I am right but what can I do LOL.

  12. #12
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    The audiophile loves good sound, (i.e. the sound of music), and will exert his or her efforts to find the means to obtain that through room, equipment, and choice of recording that have good sound as well as good music and preformance.

    Being an audiophile doesn't depend on a stereo versus multi-channel choice, nor expensive equipment. However it is natural for him or her to seek to improve the sound from time to time, hopefully not obsessively and well withing his or her means.

    In my opinion multi-channel sound is ultimately capable of a more realistic and complete presentation than stereo, though practical considerations might limit the audiophile to the latter. Not the least of these considerations is the available selection of the type of music the audiophile enjoys.

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    I guess nobody ever considered the fact that the word Audiophile existed long before multi channel systems were available.

    Duh'Oh!

  14. #14
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    "I think MC gets knocked largely because of the expense involved. I have heard lots of multi-channel set-ups but if I don't like the sound of the speakers in 2 channel - I don't see how adding 5-6 more of those speakers is going to make it better. And the speakers I like cost a bomb".

    RGA,
    I am consistently hearing this argument, and I quite frankly don't buy it. Last week I auditioned two mini-monitor based multichannel systems, one featuring the Sunfire CRM-2, and the other based on a custom design. These systems were assembled for me, and what surprised me was the quality of the sound I was hearing from the components(they both used receivers, and a PS3 for playback). Total cost for the speakers systems was about $5800, the receivers about $1200 a piece, and the PS3's were the older fat boys with SACD playback. The entire system cost less than $10k, and the sound was just magnificent from each of these systems. Going from my system in my signature to these systems never made be feel like I was losing anything. They sounded excellent with two channel music as they did with multichannel. I had just one complaint with the Sunfire speaker system. Their cutoff point was 115hz, so you had to use a 120hz crossover point to the sub. On occasion I was able to locate the sub because of that high crossover point, and the sub position in the room(It sat right behind the center speaker in the middle of the front wall)

    This listening session taught me a very valuable lesson. High quality can be had at many price points, and system synergy is as important as the quality of the individual components. The guy who put this listening session together carefully chose components that work very well together. As you can see, the system was not all that expensive.
    Sir Terrence

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  15. #15
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    I guess nobody ever considered the fact that the word Audiophile existed long before multi channel systems were available.

    Duh'Oh!
    I was aware of this. Now that multichannel is here, there is still some resistance in labeling any multichannel system as a system for audiophiles.
    Sir Terrence

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  16. #16
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    If the equipment is separated from the name, then why are the words "high end" associated with the name audiophile. Why do audiophile based mag's mostly review equipment that is considered "high end"? Why do audiophiles typically spend a ton of cash on their system? There must be some performance expectation with audiophiles, hence the capital outlay on their system.

    Somehow the equipment and its playback capabilities play into the audiophile label. I have never heard a owner of a Klipsch Quintet system call himself an audiophile.
    C;mon Terrence, I would think a guy in your line of work can see through this stuff easily. The sales industry love their catch phrases and labels. I won't let a company or corporation with a goal for profit tell me the definition of ANYTHING.

    Historically they take movements, hobbies, labels, names...whatever, and sell them back to the buying public. Che Guevara t-shirt anyone?

    One of the local shops here have regular radio spots. To say the least they are comical but I am sure to someone who doesn't know the hobby, they seem alluring.

  17. #17
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby View Post
    C;mon Terrence, I would think a guy in your line of work can see through this stuff easily. The sales industry love their catch phrases and labels. I won't let a company or corporation with a goal for profit tell me the definition of ANYTHING.

    Historically they take movements, hobbies, labels, names...whatever, and sell them back to the buying public. Che Guevara t-shirt anyone?

    One of the local shops here have regular radio spots. To say the least they are comical but I am sure to someone who doesn't know the hobby, they seem alluring.
    Poppa,
    Because of my line of work, I completely dismissed the label audiophile. It never mean't a darn thing to me until I had this discussion with my friend. I have never really seen through much of anything audiophile because I have never really addressed it in the past. It is still not something I can get my head around, because there is still no consensus about what it really means. Hence, this thread.
    Sir Terrence

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  18. #18
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby View Post
    C;mon Terrence, I would think a guy in your line of work can see through this stuff easily. The sales industry love their catch phrases and labels. I won't let a company or corporation with a goal for profit tell me the definition of ANYTHING.

    Historically they take movements, hobbies, labels, names...whatever, and sell them back to the buying public. Che Guevara t-shirt anyone?

    One of the local shops here have regular radio spots. To say the least they are comical but I am sure to someone who doesn't know the hobby, they seem alluring.
    That reminds me of Steve Jobs famous quote in 2006 at one of the usual Apple iPod events:

    "I'm an audiophile, and I'm getting rid of my stereo."

    Yeah, I'm sure Jobs ditched some ultra-expensive audiophile system in favour of just using an iPod dock...

  19. #19
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I think an audiophile is a music lover.....
    EPIC FAIL

    Seriously though; I think that definition is more what we'd like to regard an audiophile as than what it is... What about all those persons obsessed with "accurately recreating the live event" yet only own a handful of audiophile approved recordings? If you spend more time tweaking and upgrading than actually listening to music, then how can you be a music lover?

  20. #20
    Forum Regular filecat13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post

    audiophile = sound lover.
    This has always been my take on it, too, literally, "lover of sound." In the strictest sense, when I hear my girlfriend's voice and it gives me pleasure to hear it again and again, I'm being an "audiophile" of her sweet refrain. I love that sound.

    Of course, in the context of our hobby, it has acquired a primary meaning which deals more specifically with sound reproduction and a passion or desire for it. Some folks have made an effort to upscale it, and thus make it exclusive or special. Others have derided it as pretentious and delusional. In the end, however, if you love the reproduction of sound, you're in danger of being an audiophile.

    When I bought (with lawn mowing money) my first 8 transistor radio instead of a new bike or new Kenner Girder and Panel Building set, I was a child audiophile but didn't know it.

    As a teenager, I was an adolescent audiophile and didn't know it. Lying on the floor at night with my head midway between the stereo speakers in my parents' Magnavox console listening to Scheherazade was pure bliss. When I bought my first Electrophonic stereo instead of a car, clothes, or tickets to Cedar Point, I was a junior audiophile. As a college student, when I bought those JBL L100s, Kenwood KR6160, and Dual 1219 instead of paying tuition, I was a committed audiophile.

    Over the years, I've upped the ante quite a bit but the simple purpose that drove the purchase of the 8 transistor radio remains the same: I love audio.
    I like sulung tang.

  21. #21
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    Okay, sorry, not trying to hijack this thread, just trying to feel my way through the deal here on posting & such. Just thought I'd jump in real quick, say "hi" to everyone and then get out of the way and let you guys/gals get on with your business. Thanks, and when I have something worthwhile to contribute, I'll come back!
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  22. #22
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    EPIC BAN

    Seriously though; I think that definition is more what we'd like to regard an audiophile as than what it is... What about all those persons obsessed with "accurately recreating the live event" yet only own a handful of audiophile approved recordings? If you spend more time tweaking and upgrading than actually listening to music, then how can you be a music lover?


    I think their are equipment lovers who like to show off a system but do not listen to music. Much like the person who buys a high performance car for status and not the love of driving or worst yet someone who buys art as an investment and not because of their love of the art. I do think the term audiophile should indicate a love of music.
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  23. #23
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I think their are equipment lovers who like to show off a system but do not listen to music. Much like the person who buys a high performance car for status and not the love of driving or worst yet someone who buys art as an investment and not because of their love of the art. I do think the term audiophile should indicate a love of music.
    I don't think it's always just showing off. I think some persons genuinely just enjoy the equipment tweaking and upgrading more than actually sitting and relaxing to a good album...

    I believe a person can love music without feeling the need to obsess over upgrading the sound quality... and I also believe that persons can genuinely get obsessed over sound quality and not love music...

    I actually think it's fairly easy for persons in our hobby to get more obsessed with the equipment than the music...

  24. #24
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    I don't think it's always just showing off. I think some persons genuinely just enjoy the equipment tweaking and upgrading more than actually sitting and relaxing to a good album...

    I believe a person can love music without feeling the need to obsess over upgrading the sound quality... and I also believe that persons can genuinely get obsessed over sound quality and not love music...

    I actually think it's fairly easy for persons in our hobby to get more obsessed with the equipment than the music...



    But then would we call them audiophiles? I think we are working on a definition that as a group we can agree. We can list exceptions all day. I was offering my thoughts on what it means to me.
    JohnMichael
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  25. #25
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    JM and Ajani,
    Your interchanges with each other are exactly why I have dismissed, and never have tried to understand the whole audiophile label. You cannot get a real answer to what an audiophile is. Some say its a love of music played through high quality equipment, some say its a lover of music, some say its a love of the equipment, and everyone has such hard a fast believe that they are right in their definition, that is sounds like everyone is wrong.

    How can I believe or even understand what an audiophile is if nobody can agree to what it is?

    I am left with so many impressions based on what I have seen. Some guys spend a ton of cash on their systems and had every tweak you could imagine. Quite frankly it sounds like crap. But they bragged continuously about how much it cost. They claimed they were audiophiles. Lover of equipment perhaps? Others claim they were audiophiles, and love great music. They usually had poorly set up systems with no line symmetry, which means no imaging. The loved the music, and wanted to hear it from their favorite seats in a room. They were not looking for a concert hall sound - just that it sounded good with good recordings.

    I have had so many impressions, but absolutely no consensus to what "audiophile" means.
    Sir Terrence

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