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  1. #1
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermanv
    I like the Absolute Sound.

    I disagree with Ajani about fast turnover of new products. There's not that much new about how to build an amplifier and I like the idea of a series of quiet upgrades each removing another rough edge.

    As to brand, this is tough. My experience is that those very expensive high end brands all sound pretty good. They cost too much for me to have owned a serious cross section and I know that beyond a certain quality level a 1 hour session in a sales room can't be used as a true evaluation of the sound quality.

    Currently I own a Pass Labs amp that I think is excellent and I have owned two pieces of Levinson gear also very good indeed. My previous system was all Conrad Johnson gear and their brand is very listenable.
    To each his own.... though I disagree that that there's not much new in building an amp... I think that has to do with the slow turnover that you like....

    Digital Amplification is fairly recent and is gaining greater prominence in the amp world... Companies like Cambridge Audio have a class XD Amp (840A) that's supposed to be a fresh way to move between class A/B amplification... and Musical Fidelity has just dropped the 550K & 750K Superchargers... essentially monoblocks that go between an existing amp and the speakers (so they don't require any kind of preamp output directly to them)... There are changes and I believe that with better turnover, we'd see the quality of high end both increase and become more affordable...

    I respect your position, though it reminds me of a criticism I saw of a Musical Fidelity product in the consumer reviews portion of this website... the guy was essentially complaining that MF was turning over products too fast and hence killing their resale value... For persons who have invested heavily in a very expensive and high quality audio setup, the thought of rapid change in technology and sound quality is likely to be less appealing than for the average consumer...

    If I had a $30K setup and then realized that 5 years later, due to changes in technology someone could buy a setup sounding as good as mine for just $6K, I'd probably feel ripped off... I believe that the desire to keep High-End expensive is a strong part of why turnover is so slow...

    Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the issue....
    Last edited by Ajani; 02-03-2008 at 07:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    To each his own.... though I disagree that that there's not much new in building an amp... I think that has to do with the slow turnover that you like....

    Digital Amplification is fairly recent and is gaining greater prominence in the amp world... Companies like Cambridge Audio have a class XD Amp (840A) that's supposed to be a fresh way to move between class A/B amplification... and Musical Fidelity has just dropped the 550K & 750K Superchargers... essentially monoblocks that go between an existing amp and the speakers (so they don't require any kind of preamp output directly to them)... There are changes and I believe that with better turnover, we'd see the quality of high end both increase and become more affordable...

    I respect your position, though it reminds me of a criticism I saw of a Musical Fidelity product in the consumer reviews portion of this website... the guy was essentially complaining that MF was turning over products too fast and hence killing their resale value... For persons who have invested heavily in a very expensive and high quality audio setup, the thought of rapid change in technology and sound quality is likely to be less appealing than for the average consumer...

    If I had a $30K setup and then realized that 5 years later, due to changes in technology someone could buy a setup sounding as good as mine for just $6K, I'd probably feel ripped off... I believe that the desire to keep High-End expensive is a strong part of why turnover is so slow...

    Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the issue....
    My thoughts are quite different than yours. They are opinions, but there are years of experience and the fact that I am an EE to back them up. A lot of ground to cover.

    1. I know that clock rates for digital amplifiers are about an order of magnitude too slow to recreate truly high end music. They keep improving, but they are most certainly not a new idea. I have used them for low bandwidth applications for over 25 years.

    2. The idea of putting an amp between an existing amp and the speakers just adds more parts, it's a little like taking the output stage from your current amp and putting it in a separate box, lots of complexity, more parts and cost, more distortion and the opposite of minimalist design that seems so popular today. You can never make an analog signal better by adding more stages not integrated into the design in series with existing circuits designed to stand alone.

    3. I've built some gear for myself designed to compete with the high end, parts cost is phenomenal. A $0.01 resistor becomes $11.00 each if you use bulk foil on a glass or ceramic substrate like the Vishay S102. This says nothing of capacitor prices (I've paid $50 for one and that's not trying very hard) or silver wire and connectors. Unfortunately these over priced parts just plain sound better, at least to me and many others. Yes there is mark-up, but at those low volumes these devices are hardly rip-offs. In a "free market" economy you bet someone would market a competitor to a Levinson amp for half the money if they could.

    Anyway no slight intended, it just a hobby, and if it sounds good to you then that's all that matters, enjoy.
    Herman;

    My stuff:
    Olive Musica/transport and server
    Mark Levinson No.360S D to A
    Passive pre (homemade; Shallco, Vishay, Cardas wire/connectors)
    Cardas Golden Presence IC
    Pass Labs X250
    Martin Logan ReQuests.

  3. #3
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    I am partial to Pioneer. I know there is much better out there, but for my money, its the best I can afford.

    Mags:
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    I used to subscribe to Newsweek. I've cancled it though, and have resorted to going to my library and reading old copies of LIFE on microfishe. Because as you all know, life was better in the 50's. Why bother with the new stuff.

    As far as Playboy goes, I think many of their reviews are absolute bunk. They tend to either highlight super-duper high end A/V (I'm not contending they are bunk...simply out of reach). I'm talking $250,000 for a pair of speakers etc. Or their reviews contridict anything I've read anywhere else. Mainly their game/console reviews suck. They consistantly grade sub-par games very high.

    The worst was when they reviewed "Playboy-The Game". It was pretty much trashed in every other game publication, and online reviews. And yet somehow it got the coveted "4 Bunny" sticker of approval. Whithout a hint of irony in the review I might add.

    The ladies are nice (of course) but as the old joke goes "I read it for the articles". The interviews are always entertaining, as well as the 20Q section. And, as a bonus my wife doesn't care that I get them!
    Pioneer Reciever VSX-1015TX
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    Pioneer Plasma PDP-5071HD
    Xbox 360 (The Console to Own)
    Sony BDP-550
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