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  1. #1
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    What's wrong with my system?

    Hello guys,


    This is the first time I post in this forum. I would be very appreciative if someone could give me some suggestions.


    I bumped into this system (Kenwood K-R711 integrated CD player and amp, paired with Bose 125 speakers) in an electric shop the other day. I was very impressed as it was very clear, detailed, and charming while I tried it with some pop songs. The whole system costs around $800. I was absolutely sure, at that moment, that it could beat most of the other systems on the market within the same price range.


    A few weeks later, I got both of them home by ordering them on the internet(Integrated CD player and amp new whereas speakers second hand). Now, I have been listening to them for over 30 hours and I get nothing but disappointment, though at the very least, the system gets a pass on both clarity and detail on mid tone.


    Why? Because the sound that I get doesn't sound like music. It's just like the singer is speaking instead of singing as you listen to it. It gets a bit better when you listen to something very musical, but still, the whole thing you get isnt' music, but something quite dull and plain and I have never experienced something like that . Even my cheap portable mp3 player worth less than $100 , while playing the same songs as I have been playing on the new system, can give me something that sounds like music.


    Does anyone have any experience with any of these components? Which part do you think may go wrong?


    Many thanks


    Chris

  2. #2
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    Well for one thing, the Kenwood puts out 10% distortion which is pretty high.

    Amplifier Output details 30 Watt - 6 Ohm - at 1 kHz - THD 10% - 2 channel(s) (main)

    The 125 speakers appear to be Westboro sold in Japan same as receiver. I doubt many here will have experience with either.

    Google Image Result for http://audio-heritage.jp/BOSE/speaker/125westborough(5).jpg

  3. #3
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Chris, there could be something wrong with the system or it could be thats just how it sounds. I hate to say this but for $800 you could have put together much better system, especially if you went the used route.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    Chris, there could be something wrong with the system or it could be thats just how it sounds. I hate to say this but for $800 you could have put together much better system, especially if you went the used route.
    Thanks for reply Blackraven,

    Yeah...I have been thinking the same these couple of days....But why does it sound so dull, plain, and non-musical whilst it has very high definition and detail... I have never in my life come across with such a combination(ie. high definition and dullness). Which part do you think may have gone wrong?

    Cheers
    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Well for one thing, the Kenwood puts out 10% distortion which is pretty high.

    Amplifier Output details 30 Watt - 6 Ohm - at 1 kHz - THD 10% - 2 channel(s) (main)

    The 125 speakers appear to be Westboro sold in Japan same as receiver. I doubt many here will have experience with either.

    Google Image Result for http://audio-heritage.jp/BOSE/speaker/125westborough(5).jpg
    Yes, you're right. THe speakers are sold in Japan because I am living in Japan. That's why I got this system because here in Japan, things work quite different from other countries and the gears available on the market are quite different models too. Without actually seeing and trying a stuff myself, I wouldn't make any decision to purchase anything, Hifi gears included.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    The amp may not have the power to be dynamic and the speakers and amp may not put out much bass. I bet the built in CD player is not very good as well.

    Here is some info on the speaker that can be converted to English from Japanese

    BOSE スピーカーシステム125 WestBoroughの仕様 ボーズ
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    The amp may not have the power to be dynamic and the speakers and amp may not put out much bass. I bet the built in CD player is not very good as well.

    Here is some info on the speaker that can be converted to English from Japanese

    BOSE スピーカーシステム125 WestBoroughの仕様 ボーズ
    Hello,

    Thank you for giving me more opinions.

    Basically, sound appears dull and diluted no matter it plays dynamic or non-dynamic music. And dullness isn't only confined to musical instruments, but also human voice! I have been trying to play around with the equilizer and deep base control and I can get it quite dynamic and with the amount of bass that I am quite satisfied, still, what I get is a diluted kind of music. You would want to turn it off after only hearing one track of it if you know what I mean.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris9 View Post
    You would want to turn it off after only hearing one track of it if you know what I mean.
    That is called listening fatigue caused by amp's low power and high distortion

    May be if you play around with speaker's location you get better sound results.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    That is called listening fatigue caused by amp's low power and high distortion

    May be if you play around with speaker's location you get better sound results.
    Hello Smokey,

    I tried relocating the speakers to the other side today and it works a bit better! Thank you for suggestion. Yet, I am still not happy with the sound that I can. Just for your information, the amp I am using (Kenwood R-K711) is paired with a pair of Kenwood speakers which have 6 ohms impedence by the manufacturer, which means that 6ohms speaker should not be a problem for the amp. JVCKENWOOD Nederland B.V. | Compact Component Systems > K-711-B

    So, I am wondering why it would be an issue for my Bose 125 speakers which have exactly the same impedence.

    What would you suggest that I should do next? Some people said it's got to do with speakers so I should probably think about getting another pair. Do you think I should change the amp or speakers?

    Many thanks

  10. #10
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    If you have a friend that has a nice stereo system, see if you can take the speakers to his house and hook them up to see if they sound good. If they do, then you know the amp is the problem (it most likely is).
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    If you have a friend that has a nice stereo system, see if you can take the speakers to his house and hook them up to see if they sound good. If they do, then you know the amp is the problem (it most likely is).
    I really wish I could. The problem is that I am a newbie in this town and thus, don't know many people yet. I just can't think of anyone close to me who's into hifi and got some hifi gears. Anyways, thanks for help.

    Chris

  12. #12
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Chris, do you know the sensitivity of the speakers?
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  13. #13
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    If when using the same gear one pair of speakers sounds pretty good to you and the other pair doesn't you can pretty much bet that one pair doesn't please your ears. Personally I'm not surprised. I've never heard a Bose speaker that I liked.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
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  14. #14
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Chris, many mom and pop audio shops here will let you bring in just about any piece of gear to audition with and amp or speakers. Find a shop that will let you bring in your speakers with one of their amps. Tell them you are thinking about buying a new amp or receiver.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    Chris, do you know the sensitivity of the speakers?
    Hello Blackraven,

    I tried searching for it online yet couldn't find any sensitivity data. I guess it's because it's a pretty old model or the manufacturer hasn't published it at all from the beginning.

    Chris

  16. #16
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    If I am switching the speakers, do you guys have any suggestions?

    I have listened to Tannoy before and quite like the sound. Vocal and high pitch are just unbeatable!! Sadly, most of the Tannoys on the market are 8 ohms yet my Kenwood only has 30W at 6ohms.

    Any brand or particular speakers may fit my Kenwood?

    Many thanks
    Chris

  17. #17
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    The Kenwood will work with 8 ohm speakers. Speakers are a matter of personal taste. Good luck.
    Mark Wellman
    "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark of Cenla View Post
    The Kenwood will work with 8 ohm speakers. Speakers are a matter of personal taste. Good luck.
    Thank you for the advice Mark of Cenla. Someone above said that the Kenwood may not have the power to be dynamic and that could be part of the reason why the sound is so dull and lifeless, and I am really worried about happening again. Even my 70USD mp3 player (Sony NWZ-B153) sounds way more musical and lively - the typical pop music sound (when it plays pop) that most people would accept.

    Chris

  19. #19
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    We have owned and listened to many micro and shelf stereos, mostly Sony. 30 Watts @ 1000hz @ 10% THD really comes out to just a few watts with clean power, 1-5 watts. That may be the problem, but I do not think so. I have used micro stereos to power decent speakers, and it always has sounded pretty good, and those micro stereos were rated at 5 watts per channel. Most of the time you are listening, you are only using 1 watt. I am guessing that the problem is the speakers, but that is only a guess. If you buy decent speakers and try them with the Kenwood, you will find out where the problem is. Good luck.
    Mark Wellman
    "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark of Cenla View Post
    We have owned and listened to many micro and shelf stereos, mostly Sony. 30 Watts @ 1000hz @ 10% THD really comes out to just a few watts with clean power, 1-5 watts. That may be the problem, but I do not think so. I have used micro stereos to power decent speakers, and it always has sounded pretty good, and those micro stereos were rated at 5 watts per channel. Most of the time you are listening, you are only using 1 watt. I am guessing that the problem is the speakers, but that is only a guess. If you buy decent speakers and try them with the Kenwood, you will find out where the problem is. Good luck.
    Hello Mark,


    Thank you for your suggestion.


    While I have been trying to play around with the positions of the speakers and listen to different types of music to see if I can find out what's really wrong with my system, I discovered that it sounds much more 'correct' when I play mp3 instead of the original tracks which don't have any compression. Of course, as anyone would be able to predict, it comes with less detail and the sound is a bit compressed. Yet, the sound falls into the range that most people would say it sounds 'right'.


    What does it mean??? It's one of the weirdest systems I have ever owned I must admit


    HELP!!!!!!!


    Chris

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