What else can I expect?

[Wireworm5]

It like your enthusiasm Mr. J*E*Cole and great to see your interest in audio like the rest of us. But in all honesty your system is what I think most of here would call a starter system, this is not a put down. I was where you are at now, a few years ago. Enjoy your system, try to become a critical listener, anyalyze your sound. Continue to educate yourself on this board and others. If your really serious about sound it will take considerable more investment.
There are various strategies for upgrading your system. Some will suggest speakers.Myself I would start by buying a A/V receiver with at least 100 watts RMS per channel that has preouts so you can use it as a preamp down the road. A receiver of quality in Canada is $1200-$1500. However getting a preamp and amp may be a better option, but that's something you'll have to decide. Take your time as your budget allows, upgrade one piece at a time 'til your content.(once you get the bug, there is always one more upgrade)

[E-Stat]

...should I add an Amp?, and maybe what would be a good choice for this receiver (Harman/Kardon AVR130) for under $500. Is this a logical step and does it pass the "diminishing benefits" test? Also, any thoughts on an EQ? Budget $300-$400.

I find the speakers to be the center of any system. What are you using? I used to sell H-K stuff back in the 70s and have high regard for their receivers. As for equalizers, I am not a particular fan of them. While they can provide remedies for bad recordings or rooms, most inexpensive ones don't have the degree of control necessary and you're adding another circuit in the signal path. I think as Mike suggested, a logical step would be to opimize your speaker placement and room. There are a number of inexpensive DIY room treatments available to cure slap echo, improve imaging, and to tame room bass nodes.

rw

[J*E*Cole]

I find the speakers to be the center of any system. What are you using? I used to sell H-K stuff back in the 70s and have high regard for their receivers. As for equalizers, I am not a particular fan of them. While they can provide remedies for bad recordings or rooms, most inexpensive ones don't have the degree of control necessary and you're adding another circuit in the signal path. I think as Mike suggested, a logical step would be to opimize your speaker placement and room. There are a number of inexpensive DIY room treatments available to cure slap echo, improve imaging, and to tame room bass nodes.

rw

I'm using Infinity Alpha 50's as mains and Alpha 40's as surrounds and the Alpha Center.

[chimera128]

If you are happy with the way your system is now I would just buy some dvds and cds and enjoy it. After all.. it may sound just a little better when you get a new upgrade but I find that I get tired of listening and watching the same things more than 4 times. (house is beginning too look like a blockbuster after an earthquake lol.. have to get a new dvd rack)

[Lensman]

Certainly. I might add that this system consists largely of components on loan to him by the various manufacturers. It completely recalibrated my perception of what an audio system can achieve and is downright spooky in it's imaging capabilities. The amount of available bass power is prodigious and would likely benefit from the use of bass traps in the room (I'm working on convincing him of that! ) Naturally, some of the componentry changes over time, but here is a relatively recent photo.

Thanks for sharing! Your friend is a lucky man, loaning situation notwithstanding. It's an impressive array indeed, especially the speakers. Despite their drawbacks, I confess a profound weakness for ribbons...

I'm at once horrified and encouraged by the room configuration and lack of treatment. I'm inclined to agree with you, bass traps would probably help considerably (I shudder to think how things might sound if the ports were rear firing). Of course, if it truly sounds as good as indicated, it gives a lot of us with room configurations far from ideal much hope. One question: just how large is the sweet spot?

My joy is simply in being able to periodically experience this system. Just like periodically attending the symphony. If I were as wealthy as Mr. Gates, I'd purchase my own symphony!

I envy your listening opportunities. Had I the wealth, I'd certainly be an influential patron of the symphony. But I'm afraid I'm still too much of a tech head not to also derive pleasure from the pursuit of trying to accurately simulate it.

My heart favors the RCA Ormandy / Philadelphia recording from '76. I completely wore out the LP and recently obtained a CD from Amazon. I find the Telarc Previn / LSO version sonically superior, but I always go back to the Ormandy version.

Thanks, I'm not familiar with that one. I'll look for it. Like you, I'm impressed by the technical proficiency of the Telarc rendition, but find it compositionally uninspiring.

[J*E*Cole]

It like your enthusiasm Mr. J*E*Cole and great to see your interest in audio like the rest of us. But in all honesty your system is what I think most of here would call a starter system, this is not a put down. I was where you are at now, a few years ago. Enjoy your system, try to become a critical listener, anyalyze your sound. Continue to educate yourself on this board and others. If your really serious about sound it will take considerable more investment.
There are various strategies for upgrading your system. Some will suggest speakers.Myself I would start by buying a A/V receiver with at least 100 watts RMS per channel that has preouts so you can use it as a preamp down the road. A receiver of quality in Canada is $1200-$1500. However getting a preamp and amp may be a better option, but that's something you'll have to decide. Take your time as your budget allows, upgrade one piece at a time 'til your content.(once you get the bug, there is always one more upgrade)

I realize you didn't mean to "put me down", but upon doing some extensive research I have found some interesting facts. For instance in the H/K line, there is not one receiver including their $6000 TOTL that has any better specs than my entry level does, except for watts per channel, which is subjective based on your volume and listening environment needs. In fact, my AVR130 has better specs than most of the others in this line even besting certain ones like signal to noise. Check out their site if you don't believe me. Even if you go to their Digital Path Receiver lineup, my line's specs are still mostly better. So I must infer that when you say "starter system" you mean in terms of price, and not sound quality. Is this correct? But I need not only refer to this brand, my research has also shown that to best my $349 Harman/Kardon receiver, I would have to spend about $800 in Pioneer money, about $500-600 in Yamaha money, and even around $600-700 in Denon money. Now I could spend more but if sound alone is what I care about, then why? As for my critical listening, I have played piano by ear for more than 25 years and also tune them. Music is most important to me, and I feel, and many people over the years have told me so, that I DO have a golden ear. HA HA! But seriously, as an interesting challenge, and maybe some of you out there already have a pretty good idea, what's the most someone COULD spend on a mainstream receiver without matching the AVR130 in a specification breakdown? In other words, I paid $349 for mine, what is the most one could pay for any other without beating my unit's specs? I think this is a relevant and interesting challenge. Anyone up to it?

Thanks again, this is an awesome forum!

[E-Stat]

In other words, I paid $349 for mine, what is the most one could pay for any other without beating my unit's specs? I think this is a relevant and interesting challenge. Anyone up to it?

Sure. (in my best Andy Rooney imitation - huh, huh, hmmm):

Did'ya ever notice that specifications for amplifiers have gotten worse over the years? Compare Crown amplifiers from the 70s to current ones. Why did the distortion and noise figures go up? Ever wonder why it is that the $28,000 Pass Labs XA-200 has higher distortion specs than the 1981 Threshold Stasis 1 ? Same design engineer with twenty more years experience. Why is that anyway?

rw

[J*E*Cole]

Sure. (in my best Andy Rooney imitation - huh, huh, hmmm):

Did'ya ever notice that specifications for amplifiers have gotten worse over the years? Compare Crown amplifiers from the 70s to current ones. Why did the distortion and noise figures go up? Ever wonder why it is that the $28,000 Pass Labs XA-200 has higher distortion specs than the 1981 Threshold Stasis 1 ? Same design engineer with twenty more years experience. Why is that anyway?

rw

I seem to remember before the internet came to be thumbing through all those glossy audio and stereo magazines, which I loved to do, remembering by heart all the specs on the latest equipment of the day (the 1980's for me), and yes I have noticed this phenomenon . But do you think that despite this anomoly, the sound of current equipment is still improved, or not? I seem to think it has, but maybe my perception has changed... Interesting.

[E-Stat]

...remembering by heart all the specs on the latest equipment of the day (the 1980's for me), and yes I have noticed this phenomenon .

My era was the 70s. Same story. I worked at the local hi-fi shop in college.

But do you think that despite this anomoly, the sound of current equipment is still improved, or not? I seem to think it has, but maybe my perception has changed... Interesting.

Your perception has not changed. Here by comparison is the equivalent system as above circa 1980:







If you don't recognize the components, they are:

Goldmund T-3 turntable and linear arm w/Koetsu cartridge
Denneson JC-2 preamp
Conrad-Johnson (? forgot) preamp
Conrad-Johnson Premier One amp (first amp in my experience to exude "authority")
Infinity IRS
Fulton cables

That was a pretty darn good system in its day. I still remember the first piece of music I heard on that sucker. And my impressions. Holy sh*# ! Ralph's second major recalibration of system performance potential. In my humble opinion, the sound of current equipment is most improved.

As for the specs, the simple "found-on-the-website" or "in-the-manual" variety are effectively useless.

rw

[Wireworm5]

Well I'm not a tech geek so most specs I don't understand, kind of like reading an income tax form. But I can tell you every upgrade I have made has made a noticable improvement in sound. I have spent over $10,000 and I can still improve on the sound if I want to spend the money. Now if someone were to come along and tell me he has a system for $1000 that hands down sounds better than mine, then I guess I should shoot myself for being so stupid.
My dad jammed with his brothers, played in a polka band and plays the button accordian by ear for many years. And he's happy with and 8 track and chitty speakers, go figure.

[J*E*Cole]

My era was the 70s. Same story. I worked at the local hi-fi shop in college.



Your perception has not changed. Here by comparison is the equivalent system as above circa 1980:







If you don't recognize the components, they are:

Goldmund T-3 turntable and linear arm w/Koetsu cartridge
Denneson JC-2 preamp
Conrad-Johnson (? forgot) preamp
Conrad-Johnson Premier One amp (first amp in my experience to exude "authority")
Infinity IRS
Fulton cables

That was a pretty darn good system in its day. I still remember the first piece of music I heard on that sucker. And my impressions. Holy sh*# ! Ralph's second major recalibration of system performance potential. In my humble opinion, the sound of current equipment is most improved.

As for the specs, the simple "found-on-the-website" or "in-the-manual" variety are effectively useless.

rw

Those are some kicking speakers there. Can you tell me any more about them? How'd they sound and how much then etc...? Do you still have/use them, and what has replaced them? Just curious. Thanks!

[E-Stat]

Those are some kicking speakers there. Can you tell me any more about them? How'd they sound and how much then etc...? Do you still have/use them, and what has replaced them? Just curious. Thanks!

The Infinity Reference System was Arnie Nudell's statement speaker introduced in 1980. It was the follow up to his Servo Statics from the decade before.

Servo Static

IRS

The IRS was capable of creating a very large soundstage with incredible clarity and dimensionality. With the multi-kilowatt bass amps, the low end output was prodigious. One issue I had with them, however, was a discontinuity between the EMIMs (ribbon mids) and the huge woofer towers. Consequently, the mid bass was not as "tight" as Magneplanars and electrostats of the day, at least to these ears. Nevertheless, they remain one of the great loudspeakers. The ultimate evolution of that design is the Genesis One available today.

Genesis One

Do I still have them? Lordy no, they were never mine ! Both systems I've shown are that of my reviewer friend, time shifted by two decades. I delight in simply having the good fortune to hear these systems extensively. While good, my own system is simply not in the same league.

rw

[robin_v]

It would seem that you have a natural immunity to the dreaded Audiophile 1 virus which, in many cases, is incurable. Nothing wrong with that, J E, just sit back and enjoy the music!

[Geoffcin]

If you don't recognize the components, they are:

Goldmund T-3 turntable and linear arm w/Koetsu cartridge
Denneson JC-2 preamp
Conrad-Johnson (? forgot) preamp
Conrad-Johnson Premier One amp (first amp in my experience to exude "authority")
Infinity IRS
Fulton cables

rw

Transformer and caps in the amp? I've never seen that done before. Is this a "tweak" ;o)

[E-Stat]

Transformer and caps in the amp? I've never seen that done before. Is this a "tweak" ;o)

VPI Bricks on the transformers to trap EMF. One reason why toroidals are popular today.

rw