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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
I can't recall having ever heard Cerwin Vega. It's the philosophy and looks that completely put me off.
They are very much like Klipsch. It's all about high SPLs. Having said that, even Gene Czerwinski acknowledges that static cable tests are irrelevant. Look here. Guys like Roger Russel have no clue whatsoever with their "It all sounds the same provided the resistance is low enough" mantra.
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
They are very much like Klipsch. It's all about high SPLs. Having said that, even Gene Czerwinski acknowledges that static cable tests are irrelevant. Look here. Guys like Roger Russel have no clue whatsoever with their "It all sounds the same provided the resistance is low enough" mantra.
rw
Why are you mentioning cables?
I'm personally not a proponent of expensive cables because I don't believe the difference between cables (in a 'normal' system) are great enough to justify the expense, especially when other components of the system make a far greater sonic difference, including speakers and room acoustics. If one wishes to extract every last ounce of music out of his expensive system, then why not...
I feel however, that most wild claims concerning cables are just that, wild claims. No 'night and day' difference.
I did hear however a 'night and day' difference a couple years back, when a salesman swapped speaker stands as I was auditioning a speaker. That was an eye opener.
Back to the speakers. I feel Klipsch is in a different league than CW, but I could be wrong.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
Why are you mentioning cables?
Because the founder of a company based upon "louder is better" was surprised that conventional thinking about cables is flawed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
I feel however, that most wild claims concerning cables are just that, wild claims. No 'night and day' difference.
As a point of reference, what interconnects, speaker cables and power cable do you prefer?
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
They are very much like Klipsch. It's all about high SPLs. Having said that, even Gene Czerwinski acknowledges that static cable tests are irrelevant. Look here. Guys like Roger Russel have no clue whatsoever with their "It all sounds the same provided the resistance is low enough" mantra.
rw
I looked "here". Very interesting. Unfortunately the real diehards won't bother to read "heresy".
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E-stat I tried to give a greenie for the link. The skeptics ask for an article, one finally shows up and it still don't do any good.
I wouldn't stereotype all sound reinforcement gear. Electro Voice has some excellent speaker components. I consider horns just another approach. Some will enjoy, some will not. Some are horrible and some are grand.
What keeps an amateur an amateur is never inspiring to do better. That would require and open mind and motivation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
I wouldn't stereotype all sound reinforcement gear.
I mention what I've heard.
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
I mention what I've heard.
rw
What I've heard usually ranges from mediocre to poor. Most of it is closer to the poor end. Rarely if ever do I hear something "good" in sound reinforcement gear.
Would someone please kill (or at least cut their hands off) whoever is responsible for putting "piezo" tweeters in most pa speakers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
Would someone please kill (or at least cut their hands off) whoever is responsible for putting "piezo" tweeters in most pa speakers.
Unfortunately for listeners, they are both inexpensive and bulletproof, two priorities for sound reinforcement systems. Fortunately, they do not appear to be used in the newer batch of theatre based systems.
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
I can't recall having ever heard Cerwin Vega. It's the philosophy and looks that completely put me off.
I had a pair of Cerwin Vega LS-8's for about 11/2 years. They were the first 'non-boom' box speakers that I ever had. I was amazed by them. But, then I figured out there was much better equipment and moved on.
Best Regards,
Stan
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[QUOTE=IBSTORMIN]..... And of course, Bose is a four letter word.
............[QUOTE]
Jumping into this conversation late. But I think most here would appreciate never owning this brand in their personal systems.
I sold many pairs of Bose speaker systems when I worked for Pacific Stereo back in my college days. I never could comprehend why they were held in such esteem but I sold them anyways because I needed the paycheck. The demand remained high--even when compared next other systems in A/B tests. A large percentage of consumers still preferred the Bose to other available speaker systems. I had to conclude from my experience with retail--that the consumer public associates volume with quality. Sound quality is subjective but "louder is better" is quantifiable.
I had a recent experience to validate my theory. I found a pair of the old "legendary" Bose 901 Series IIs at a friend's garage sale. She was unable to sell them and was about to toss them in the garbage. I told her to wait on these. I took them and purchased a re-ring kit from a local speaker builder store for $59.95. I refurbished the pair and hooked them up to my system. I was immediately reminded of the atrocious sound presence that I remembered from my days at Pacific Stereo. Back then they sold for near $1000.
I posted them on eBay and had a flurry of bids eventually selling for near $600 + $75 for shipping. Not a bad return for an aging speaker system over 20 years of age.
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Making 600 bucks out of a piece of could be junk. Nice job!
Someone just posted about Tangant Audio. That's another brand I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
As a point of reference, what interconnects, speaker cables and power cable do you prefer?
rw
This is the point of my argument, I don't have a 'preference'. The only comparison I have done was between two pairs of interconnects on a modest system, and I wasn't able to dicern any differences. I then proceeded to send back the cable and get a refund as I wasn't able to justify paying that much for aesthetic purposes:)
In my setup I use 11 gauge 'flat' stranded copper speaker cables. The interconnects I'm running at the moment are generic whites and reds (don't laugh), which I'm hoping to replace with DIY solid core coppers within the next month. The power cords are all stock, and I don't really have the means of messing with different options unfortunately.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeegy200
I posted them on eBay and had a flurry of bids eventually selling for near $600 + $75 for shipping. Not a bad return for an aging speaker system over 20 years of age.
Amazing... I have a pair of Bose 201's below my kitchen cabinets.they are only used to push out sound and basically nothing else. Yet, people come in my house and are impressed that I have such high quality speakers......
Best Regards,
Stan
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JoeE, are you referring to sound reinforcement at concerts or in your own controlled envirement? At concerts I'd agree whole hardily but keep in mind the effect of amp, set up and venue. We used to play with the Electro Voice in the store hooked to regular home gear and most products were really good. I remember they had a separate horn and compression driver that played down to 800 Hz and just sounded awesome doing it. In a full cabinet speaker though you do have to deal with the draw backs of horns in general, dispersion limits, low frequency extension etc. They also have their own benefits as well too. I've got some folded horn designs that will play low but who has the room for a sub the size of a double door frig :) As you can tell I hold those days in fond memory. Nothing like being able to have a job in the hobby you love. To show the extent of insanity in experimentation, our car installer began using E-V woofers in auto sub boxes. Believe it or not, the craze blew up in our area. They built a monster truck where the dump bed was one huge speaker box full of drivers. We had it at a car stereo contest and on a parking lot you could literally feel the ground vibrate with the rhythm.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manlystanley
Amazing... I have a pair of Bose 201's below my kitchen cabinets.they are only used to push out sound and basically nothing else. Yet, people come in my house and are impressed that I have such high quality speakers......
Best Regards,
Stan
Markerting is the reason. Bose has alot of people convinced they have the best. Alot of people see the name and know you spent alot of money. Those that have heard, compared and can hear the difference, know you spent too much for the sound quality you have. Just my 2 cents.
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Emotiva (please guys stop with this **** already) , Klipsch (post 1990 stuff), Bose, Paradigm, Axiom, SVS, Swans (post 1999 stuff) any French-made gear, Bryston...that's all i can think of now.
Although i do have to say the 1980 Bose 501 III's i had were pretty kick ass drunk speakers. They looked attractive sober and after a case of beer they played any type of music i could throw at them and yes they did direct/reflect music everywhere. I put them in the corners of the room and turned up the volume.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shodulik
Emotiva (please guys stop with this **** already) , Klipsch (post 1990 stuff), Bose, Paradigm, Axiom, SVS, Swans (post 1999 stuff) any French-made gear, Bryston...that's all i can think of now.
Although i do have to say the 1980 Bose 501 III's i had were pretty kick ass drunk speakers. They looked attractive sober and after a case of beer they played any type of music i could throw at them and yes they did direct/reflect music everywhere. I put them in the corners of the room and turned up the volume.
Hey Shodulik, I'm curious to know what you don't like about these brands (aside Klispch and Bose which I understand), and especially the French gear?
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I'm curious as well. Emotiva's sound may not appeal to every one, nor does any line, but they do offer a great value and can give some one on a budget a feel for higher end gear. Bryston? An excellent brand.
Of course, the thread says "attracted" which if taken literally has nothing to do with sound. I'm not a good judge of what looks cool. Although I did see some Shanling gear that was really innovative looking that I thought cool. My friend's Esoteric transport I was impressed with, again, no judge of looks but what impressed me it looked like it was chizzled into a solid block of aluminum.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shodulik
Emotiva (please guys stop with this **** already) , Klipsch (post 1990 stuff), Bose, Paradigm, Axiom, SVS, Swans (post 1999 stuff) any French-made gear, Bryston...that's all i can think of now.
Although i do have to say the 1980 Bose 501 III's i had were pretty kick ass drunk speakers. They looked attractive sober and after a case of beer they played any type of music i could throw at them and yes they did direct/reflect music everywhere. I put them in the corners of the room and turned up the volume.
I really don't think you have listened to any Emotiva.
I hadnt, just went on the basis of its nature.
Another audio company making cheap stuff from China.
Well, you might want to try them, I did and got a pleasant surprize.
A 125wpc amp for 250$, not much risk.
As for Bose, I had 501SERIES 4'S, and they were pretty decent, thats back when Bose was a audio instead of a marketing company.
Triangles are Frenchie, and good, BTW.:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
The interconnects I'm running at the moment are generic whites and reds (don't laugh)...
That's how everyone starts out. You might be surprised one day when you get a chance to hear what top line cables can do in a superlative system.
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
...
Of course, the thread says "attracted" which if taken literally has nothing to do with sound.
Yes Peabody that's the way i read the thread as well. I was not commenting on the sound, strictly appearance. As far as Emotiva gear goes it looks completely tacky to me. It's like they are trying so desperately hard to "look" higher end with that styling.
Bryston gear is just ugly to me. I don't like their logo, faceplates or amp handles.
Bose is well, Bose.
I cant's stand the look of cylindrical SVS subs. I know they make box subs too but they are generally known for their cylindrical models.
The cheap looking plastic baffles on the front of most Paradigm speakers is such a put-off for me.
I am biased against anything french so i had to throw them in the mix even though i like some JMLab and Triangle designs, lol.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
That's how everyone starts out. You might be surprised one day when you get a chance to hear what top line cables can do in a superlative system.
rw
You'd be surprise, but they're doing the job at the moment. I actually started out with a pair of Radioshacks that are better than these generics but I put them in my parent's system.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shodulik
Yes Peabody that's the way i read the thread as well. I was not commenting on the sound, strictly appearance. As far as Emotiva gear goes it looks completely tacky to me. It's like they are trying so desperately hard to "look" higher end with that styling.
Bryston gear is just ugly to me. I don't like their logo, faceplates or amp handles.
Bose is well, Bose.
I cant's stand the look of cylindrical SVS subs. I know they make box subs too but they are generally known for their cylindrical models.
The cheap looking plastic baffles on the front of most Paradigm speakers is such a put-off for me.
I am biased against anything french so i had to throw them in the mix even though i like some JMLab and Triangle designs, lol.
Funny, I didn't like the looks of cylinder subs for a long time. Recently though I've taken a liking, probably because I've learnt that they can easily outperform box subs which has put the looks a little out of the picture.
I'm guessing you've had a bad experience with something French, or in France perhaps?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
You'd be surprise, but they're doing the job at the moment.
No doubt. I've done SBTs with generic cable vs. my mid-priced stuff in the main system. I use double runs of 14 gauge zip with the Advents. The differences are not huge, but noticeable. I would never start building a superlative system with cables, but I would always end there.
As for cylindrical subs, I find the "depth charge" approach used by Scaenas looks pretty cool and sounds excellent.
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
JoeE, are you referring to sound reinforcement at concerts or in your own controlled envirement? At concerts I'd agree whole hardily but keep in mind the effect of amp, set up and venue. We used to play with the Electro Voice in the store hooked to regular home gear and most products were really good. I remember they had a separate horn and compression driver that played down to 800 Hz and just sounded awesome doing it. In a full cabinet speaker though you do have to deal with the draw backs of horns in general, dispersion limits, low frequency extension etc. They also have their own benefits as well too. I've got some folded horn designs that will play low but who has the room for a sub the size of a double door frig :) As you can tell I hold those days in fond memory. Nothing like being able to have a job in the hobby you love. To show the extent of insanity in experimentation, our car installer began using E-V woofers in auto sub boxes. Believe it or not, the craze blew up in our area. They built a monster truck where the dump bed was one huge speaker box full of drivers. We had it at a car stereo contest and on a parking lot you could literally feel the ground vibrate with the rhythm.
Mr. P, I live in the inner city. There are 10 wannabe DJ's on every block, mine included. They almost always have piezo tweeters in their PA speakers. In the summer at any of the two or three block parties my block has, two or three set their DJ systems up on their front porches and entertain the block. Mine is an exceptionally long block with 86 row houses on it. I can walk from one end of the block to the other and it's like going to three different clubs. Unfortunately all three clubs have "cut your ears off and run away" highs on their speakers.
As far as concerts go, I think most mixer guys need lessons in what music sounds like.
AA:
As for cylindrical subs, come over and check out my two 7' 4" tall 12" dia. TL PVC sewer pipe subs. They are equalized flat to 18Hz. They are loud, deep, cheap and clean. I can shake my front door and everything else just like the rolling distortion boxes that pass by.
I may paint them to look like Barber Poles!
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