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  1. #1
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Well, it's p!$$ and moan time...

    ...again...while this topic is audio related it can be applied to almost anything...

    Where do some of these bush-league questions come from?

    Don't get me wrong, I am of the opinion that there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...but come on already. Even tho' it may seem so, I'm not really criticizing the posters, at least not yet.

    I see many of the regulars dumping on the old mags, High Fidelity, Stereo Review and Audio...nothing but praise for TAS and their ilk. Th old "Julian Hirsch never met a piece of equipment he didn't like!" argument may or may not hold water, but those rags did serve an important purpose...While I must confess my only exposure to TAS and such is during visits to Barnes and Noble, as I thumb thru them for a hearty serving of laughter, I have yet to see any articles that cover the basics. Maybe I'm missing the issues that do so, but based on some of the questions I've seen, my hunch is that I am correct.

    Yearly, just about all the mags I mentioned would have audio basics, glossaries, guides on how to buy gear...that sort of thing. Does anybody do that anymore? Has the blight of HT and digital undone even the need for such basic things? Is it all either "plug-and-play" or esoteric tweakdom? Is there no middle ground? If I am mistaken, my sincerest apologies...

    On the other side of the fence...the posters! Why does it seem they all want to have it handed to them without any effort on their part? Many times some of the questions are so rudimentary, a quick surf or a vist to their owners manual will provide the answers...do I expect too much? I have given the response "Look in you owners manual" and have been taken to task for that answer...seems as tho some of us like to complicate matters or just love to hear themselves prattle on. And it's not like I'm not willing to help when I can...When I do some research into a subject or piece of gear I'm not familiar with, I use it as a learning experience. Oftimes, I glean bits of info that answer questions I haven't even thought of yet, many times not even audio-related, they bring things into perspective.

    I think most of us are here to pass on what we can and learn something new in the process and I realize the web is probably the successor to the print media...I certainly don't begrudge AR et al their "hits", but as this community is a microcosm of the real world, this "situation"(for lack of better words) gives one pause.

    jimHJJ(...Listen to the music, live when you can...canned when you can't!...)

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...again...while this topic is audio related it can be applied to almost anything...

    Where do some of these bush-league questions come from?

    Don't get me wrong, I am of the opinion that there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...but come on already. Even tho' it may seem so, I'm not really criticizing the posters, at least not yet.

    I see many of the regulars dumping on the old mags, High Fidelity, Stereo Review and Audio...nothing but praise for TAS and their ilk. Th old "Julian Hirsch never met a piece of equipment he didn't like!" argument may or may not hold water, but those rags did serve an important purpose...While I must confess my only exposure to TAS and such is during visits to Barnes and Noble, as I thumb thru them for a hearty serving of laughter, I have yet to see any articles that cover the basics. Maybe I'm missing the issues that do so, but based on some of the questions I've seen, my hunch is that I am correct.

    Yearly, just about all the mags I mentioned would have audio basics, glossaries, guides on how to buy gear...that sort of thing. Does anybody do that anymore? Has the blight of HT and digital undone even the need for such basic things? Is it all either "plug-and-play" or esoteric tweakdom? Is there no middle ground? If I am mistaken, my sincerest apologies...

    On the other side of the fence...the posters! Why does it seem they all want to have it handed to them without any effort on their part? Many times some of the questions are so rudimentary, a quick surf or a vist to their owners manual will provide the answers...do I expect too much? I have given the response "Look in you owners manual" and have been taken to task for that answer...seems as tho some of us like to complicate matters or just love to hear themselves prattle on. And it's not like I'm not willing to help when I can...When I do some research into a subject or piece of gear I'm not familiar with, I use it as a learning experience. Oftimes, I glean bits of info that answer questions I haven't even thought of yet, many times not even audio-related, they bring things into perspective.

    I think most of us are here to pass on what we can and learn something new in the process and I realize the web is probably the successor to the print media...I certainly don't begrudge AR et al their "hits", but as this community is a microcosm of the real world, this "situation"(for lack of better words) gives one pause.

    jimHJJ(...Listen to the music, live when you can...canned when you can't!...)
    You are being too kind. Some questions make me wonder if the posters are serious.

  3. #3
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    Where do some of these bush-league questions come from?
    Agreed. It is amazing how much you can find with a simple Google search.


    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    Th old "Julian Hirsch never met a piece of equipment he didn't like!" argument may or may not hold water, but those rags did serve an important purpose.
    Everyone has to get started somewhere. Julian and Len helped me out in my teens. Then I outgrew them and the product they reviewed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ... I have yet to see any articles that cover the basics. Maybe I'm missing the issues that do so, but based on some of the questions I've seen, my hunch is that I am correct.
    You are correct. Those magazines target those who are past the basics.


    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    Yearly, just about all the mags I mentioned would have audio basics, glossaries, guides on how to buy gear...that sort of thing. Does anybody do that anymore? Has the blight of HT and digital undone even the need for such basic things?
    I think you are correct. I recall the annual product listing from Audio magazine as a good source of exposure to new things. With more distractions such as video games, the internet, and HT, it seems that there are fewer folks who spend dedicated time simply listening to music.

    From an old timer,
    rw

  4. #4
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Yeah, these spoon fed noobs get on my nerves.

    But on another subject, I have a question. I just bought a new DVD player and I can't find see how it hooks up. The player is just brown and square with no connections. It has "Panasonic" written on the side, and "this side up" at the top. Any ideas?? The salesman said it came with everything I needed but all he gave me was this.

  5. #5
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    I'd open the box and look inside...(nt)

    No Further Text

  6. #6
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Well I suppose if a question bothers you enough you can just skip over it and leave it to someone else to respond to. To be fair, a pretty sizeable chunk of owners manuals leave a lot to be desired in terms of clarity and / or completeness of information. Just pick up any Denon AVR manual and it's easy to understand that there remain a number of unanswered questions that can arise, especially to someone new to the game.

    As to your other rants, I leave them alone having never really bothered with audio mags in the first place.

    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  7. #7
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    It would seem as though...

    ...you have missed my point...

    ...there seems to be no venue for anyone to learn the basics AND given the fact that the WEB exists and information IS readily available, there are those who couldn't be bothered to exert themselves in the slightest to help themselves and learn a little something in the process...

    It's not just audio...

    jimHJJ(...aw...skip it!...)

  8. #8
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    While I agree we have some questionable posts made here, I'm sure everyone has a decent reason for posting whatever questions they have...the best part is, you don't have to answer or even read them if you don't want to. In some cases, maybe they really are that stupid, in which case they need all the help they can get. I'm sure there's more productive things to do than complain about noobs.

    As for magazines...well, seems to me the internet has stolen the role of Audio mags with respect to supplying basic info and objective critical reviews. Now they're just marketing tools and revenue streams.
    If you want to know if a product is good, you have to be able to read the seemingly logarthmic performance scale between "95 and 100". 90 is pretty much a poor score, 95 is mediocre, etc.
    And don't put much faith into anything that just gets a "good" or "above average" rating. And one thing the consumer electronics industry has learned from the auto industry is that you can't give a negative review or it'll cost you millions in legal fees defending against claims for "slander".

    But I still find audio mags provide at least 1 decent article every issue for educating purposes, the problem is half the time I've researched the subject on the web myself before reading.

    Don't know what the answer is, but this problem isn't unique to this hobby.

  9. #9
    JSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...you have missed my point...

    ...there seems to be no venue for anyone to learn the basics AND given the fact that the WEB exists and information IS readily available, there are those who couldn't be bothered to exert themselves in the slightest to help themselves and learn a little something in the process...

    It's not just audio...

    jimHJJ(...aw...skip it!...)

    Are they not doing just that by asking questions here?

    JSE

  10. #10
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Again, don't get me wrong...

    ...I enjoy providing whatever info I can, but there is a world of difference(at least in my mind)to having responsible parties explain the basics in an accurate manner...I hardly call most of what is on the net responsible or accurate...

    If a magazine article author gets it wrong, there are editors, proofreaders etc. and if all else fails there are irate readers' letters to contend with...in the virtual world there are virtually no safeguards...people just believe what they read...

    Some folks aren't even conversant with the jargon, nor do they seem to have any inclination to aquaint themselves with it. Couldn't be bothered or haven't a clue or simply have no reason to gain any self-reliance...I remind you of that microcosm I spoke of earlier.

    Common sense, the ability to think on one's feet...the lack of such qualities is already, and will continue in the future, to come back and bite us in the @$$...

    jimHJJ(...like I said, it ain't just in audio...)

  11. #11
    Forum Regular Swerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    Where do some of these bush-league questions come from?

    Don't get me wrong, I am of the opinion that there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...but come on already. Even tho' it may seem so, I'm not really criticizing the posters, at least not yet.
    It seems there is nothing new under the sun. In 1969 while in school, I had a roommate who worked part time at a local stereo shop. He once came home telling me about an unbelievably dumb customer who had fried two speakers he had just bought. He attached lamp cord to the speakers, as he was instructed. But he then got too clever for his own good; he added standard power plugs to the other end of the wires and plugged them into an AC wall tap! Apparently the speakers briefly howled at 60 Hz before dying a violent death. He angrily brought them back to the shop complaining how the speakers were defective. There may be those who dismiss this as one of those urban legends, but I saw those speakers the next day. I swear Iím not making this up. The voice coils had melted, the woofer cones were blown, and the innards were blackened where there was a brief fire.

    So keep those dumb posts coming. Nobody is born knowing all this struff, and itís far better to ask dumb questions than to blindly send 110 volts AC directly to some brand new speakers.

    WARNING: Do not try this at home!

  12. #12
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    Jim, I'm with you on this one.

    Magazines notwithstanding, I'm am amazed, no ASTOUNDED, at some of the inane questions posted. I'm not talking about the normal newbie questions we see daily, I'm talking about the ones that are so monumentally stupid or irrelevant that it truly makes you wonder if the poster knows how to wipe there own a$$. If you can figure out how to get on a board, you sure as hell can figure out how to to do a google search for the answers. It's not the lack of knowledge that bugs me so much as the lack of effort.

    OK, I'm off my soapbox.

  13. #13
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...you have missed my point...

    ...there seems to be no venue for anyone to learn the basics AND given the fact that the WEB exists and information IS readily available, there are those who couldn't be bothered to exert themselves in the slightest to help themselves and learn a little something in the process...

    It's not just audio...

    jimHJJ(...aw...skip it!...)
    I guess everyone has their buttons that can be pushed and their very own set of pet peeves. I basically quit posting anywhere other than rave recs for similar reasons so it's not like I don't see the point. Guess I just have found another way to deal with it. There's really only one ijit on the board that gets to me with his lies, playing stupid, and phony familiarity. Most everyone recognizes him for what he is and I guess that makes it easier to ignore. But I digress...

    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  14. #14
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Angry I posted a similar rant about a month ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...again...while this topic is audio related it can be applied to almost anything...

    Where do some of these bush-league questions come from?

    Don't get me wrong, I am of the opinion that there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...but come on already. Even tho' it may seem so, I'm not really criticizing the posters, at least not yet.

    IOn the other side of the fence...the posters! Why does it seem they all want to have it handed to them without any effort on their part? Many times some of the questions are so rudimentary, a quick surf or a vist to their owners manual will provide the answers...do I expect too much? I have given the response "Look in you owners manual" and have been taken to task for that answer...seems as tho some of us like to complicate matters or just love to hear themselves prattle on. And it's not like I'm not willing to help when I can...When I do some research into a subject or piece of gear I'm not familiar with, I use it as a learning experience. Oftimes, I glean bits of info that answer questions I haven't even thought of yet, many times not even audio-related, they bring things into perspective.

    I think most of us are here to pass on what we can and learn something new in the process and I realize the web is probably the successor to the print media...I certainly don't begrudge AR et al their "hits", but as this community is a microcosm of the real world, this "situation"(for lack of better words) gives one pause.

    jimHJJ(...Listen to the music, live when you can...canned when you can't!...)
    I agree with you whole heartedly... I don't even mind the basic questions... but when you write like a cretin, spell like a fugitive from the "short bus", expect miracle answers for bizarre questions and then aren't satisfied, I'm done. "No... I don't know of a budget speaker that will give you deep bass, amazing highs, firm mids and fetch beers for you and your buds!!!!" My first name is NOT Terrance or Nostrodamus. What I know I pass along but don't ask me to be Karnak the friggin Magnificent okay...

    Sheesh...

    Da jumpin on dat rant Worfster

  15. #15
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    I too get callous when I see a post asking certain questions.

    But then I try to think back to my first posts here some years ago. I had a few doozies I bet

    Also, it's a TON easier to post here for 10 seconds and continue on your work day and pick your 85 page answer later. Yes, some of you people type just to get exercise during your day.

    And probably the biggest reason is basic ignorance, as in no confidence. People are 1000 times more satisfied with help in the form of someone telling them what to do vs. reading a magazine article and deciphering even the easy stuff. If you don't have any experience, it may just blow your mind that A/V isnt all that hard after all. How many time have you asked someone about something and said "Are you sure, Bob?" Lots of folks need the reassurance that their way/decision/choice is acceptable/correct.

    Or something like that.
    Last edited by JStudrawa; 06-09-2004 at 01:51 PM. Reason: Cuz I am a moron.

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    i use back copies of stereo review, audio, and high fidelity on a regular basis.. those reviews are frequently the only specs for vintage equipment left in print. plus i think, especially in the 50s and up through the seventies, this notion that they had nothing but praise for everything is bull. I admit also to copying many of their basics articles and find them to be extremely useful. they lend insight into how the equipment was used forty or fifty years ago. I managed to seek out and put together a mid-fifties changer with one of those three-lead ceramic early stereo cartridges. Without a midfifties howto article from Stereo Review I was pretty much on my own.

    There are, by the way, still audio mags that have how-to articles. they're all from britain, mostly dealing with mass-market level equipment, but not entirely. What Hi-Fi is usually an interesting read. They have an encyclopedic review section. The only problem is the gear is all for the british market (though there are frequently US equivalents) and it's heavily surround-sound oriented, though they also cover the analog beat.

  17. #17
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    Your posting is outrageous. It's also illogical. You say there is no place to go for basic information but then you say newbies shouldn't come here. Many owners manuals are either incompetently written or so voluminous that they are intimindating expecially to someone not familiar with the kind equipment he was talked into buying.

    You don't have to reply to or even read every posting here. I don't. If something doesn't interest you, skip it. Besides, you'd be surprised how many seemingly innocent questions and responses go off on a tangent and start a long and heated debate.

    I'll bet if some beautiful young blond girl asked you to come over to her house to hook up her new stereo for her, you'd drop everything you were doing and fly over there in a second without saying even once; "why don't you read the instruction manual and hook it up yourself?"

    As far as I am concerned, anyone who wants basic information or advice has come to the right place because usually, someone will offer a good answer. If that isn't snooty enough for you, AA is always available for the "in the know" crowd. They have all the answers and only deal with the smartest most knowledgable participants. If you're really lucky and rate high enough, maybe one day you will get the thrill of John Curl responding to one of your postings. In his mind, you and I don't know any more than the newbies who post here with their "bush league" questions.

  18. #18
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Skep...look, over there...by the tree...

    ...it's a forest!

    You don't get it...you seem to rarely do so...if you filled out an order form from the "IT" Company, your package would probably get lost in the mail!

    Don't like my opinions...snap it pal!...ever hear of conceptual continuity? THE WORLD AIN'T A SOUND BITE.

    Actually, I was thinking of you when I originally typed this:

    "...seems as tho some of us like to complicate matters or just love to hear themselves prattle on..."

    jimHJJ(...glad I could ignite your outrage...)

  19. #19
    Forum Regular gonefishin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    Where do some of these bush-league questions come from?

    Don't get me wrong, I am of the opinion that there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...)

    I can tell you where some of them come from. Me.


    I actually never did agree that there isn't such a thing as a stupid question. I"ve asked some stupid questions before and knew sometimes before I even asked...and other times I didn't know it was a stupid question until after I already asked.

    Looking back at things...I've also given some stupid answers too. I suppose there's some comfort knowing that I'm not alone. Although, after thinking about it, I'd rather ask a stupid question than give some stupid advice.


    one things for sure tho...my stupidity has shown in the past...it shows now...and be assured that my stupidity will continue to show in the future. Only thing I can hope, is that offset my stupidity once in a while with some good advice or a well placed question.





    I do agree tho...that before making a stupid comment...at least do a little research first.
    Last edited by gonefishin; 06-15-2004 at 11:32 AM.
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    enjoy the music!

  20. #20
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    You left here in a snit a couple of years ago. Why did you come back?

  21. #21
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    It wasn't a snit...it was a Chevy Vega...

    ..."Why did you come back?..."

    I missed the playful comraderie...

    jimHJJ(...never left, simply had a peaceful, fallow period...)

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