Warm sound, cold sound... whats it to you?

[E-Stat]

Why were they toady?

LIkewise, it's been a while since I last heard them. I used the term that the salesperson gave me at the time. Dull and uninvolving is my recollection. If AR were still around, perhaps you could ask them why they canned the LST series.

Resolution? That's an ambiguous term...resolving what exactly...image?...depth?...

One of the delights of getting a new component for me is rediscovering old musical favorites. Since I acquired new speakers last month, I have been hearing deeper into all sorts of recordings that I have heard countless times over long periods of time. From 60s Astrud Gilberto to current Higdon, I hear new details in the music. Improved vocal articulation. Hearing the harp distinctly for the first time in a piece of music. More texture to the rosiny growl of strings. The sound of a twelve string guitar's body. Rendering spatial cues more evident.

Do you have a high def TV? If you do, then you know what I mean.

rw

[Resident Loser]

One of the delights of getting a new component for me is rediscovering old musical favorites. Since I acquired new speakers last month, I have been hearing deeper into all sorts of recordings that I have heard countless times over long periods of time. From 60s Astrud Gilberto to current Higdon, I hear new details in the music. Improved vocal articulation. Hearing the harp distinctly for the first time in a piece of music. More texture to the rosiny growl of strings. The sound of a twelve string guitar's body. Rendering spatial cues more evident.

...begs the question(s)...Was it all there all along?...Did your new gear just cause you to listen more closely?

Do you have a high def TV? If you do, then you know what I mean.

HAH!!!...tee-hee...chuckle, chuckle...snort...hi-def...unless you consider a 20in. Philips/Magnavox set with probably a 10yr. old Sony VCR and a bank give-away JVC DVD player state-of-the art gear I'd guess the answer is no...but there really ain't squat to watch anywho...with "...13 channels of $h!t on the tee-vee to choose from..." or so goes the song...

jimHJJ(...but I do get the gist of your crux...)

[E-Stat]

...begs the question(s)...Was it all there all along?...Did your new gear just cause you to listen more closely?

It still isn't there in the same way with other systems even with the knowledge that it is. Here again some of these selections I've heard hundreds of times and have gone through the upgrade "listen-to-the-difference" process multiple times. There are times, however, where the reverse is true. My "musical memory" for well-listened-to pieces sometimes fills in what is not getting reproduced by my lesser systems.

I'd guess the answer is no...but there really ain't squat to watch anywho...

I have a midrange 61" DLP monitor with a Hi Def cable box. Color saturation, brightness, and resolution are all significantly improved over NTSC sets not to mention sound quality. Everyone notices the improvements. You can make out the faces in the crowd at sporting events, for example. You can also see the sometimes comical amount of makeup worn by local newscasters as well.

Although my wife enjoys some popular programs such as Law & Order, ER, etc., my viewing consists primarily of movie, science and automotive/motorcycle related channels. Comcast gives me about a dozen Hi-Def channels including Discovery HD, two INHD channels, TNT, two ESPN channels, and two movie channels. INHD has a weekly program where they broadcast IMAX films that are positively wonderful. I trust you have experienced one of those ultra large format presentations. That kind of resolution (almost) is now available in your home.

rw

[hermanv]

but there really ain't squat to watch anywho.

(Long way from warm sound, cold sound.)

Although I agree there's little on, given the high available channel count. I disagree this makes HDTV moot. When there is something on, whether its once a day or once a month the viewing experience is good enough that the only reason now to go to a movie theater is for some kind of social interaction.

In an audiophile analogy; most CDs suck, a few good ones make the investment in a nice system worthwile, at least to me.

[Arturo7]

Excellent post H.

I suppose it's self evident but these posts have got me thinking about audiophile terms we all use and misuse.

Before electronic reproduction there was simply sound, our language defined terms for pitch and volume, a few others but not much more.

It took the invention of an electronic reproduction chain to find all the possible ways to screw up how something sounds. Obviously in retrospect it turns out there are a great many ways to screw up reproduced sound. Who could have foreseen doppler distortion caused by speaker cones?

So although the magazines do tend towards hyperbole (gotta make a living, right?) the language to describe sound reproduction errors is obviously very new. When I listen to a system with an audio friend, we stumble around all kinds of phrases to describe what we are hearing. More often than not, we end up agreeing that we were trying to say the same thing but that the language had failed us. At least the magazines have given us a starting point.

Has anyone ever seen an online glossary or dictionary of audiophile terminology? Perhaps we could import it and list it somewhere on the site. Maybe we could avert a flame war or two.

[Resident Loser]

(Long way from warm sound, cold sound.)

I really didn't mean to embark on one of those tangental topics that seem to occur with regularity 'round here, just providing the courtesy of a response to E-Stat...

And in that light...

I disagree this makes HDTV moot.

For me it does...simply going for the video portion would probably get me interested in full-blown HT; I just haven't the room to do things up "right"... . I do mostly watch certain PBS presentations, two stations are available...reception on one is good, the other not-so-good...which would mean futzing with antennae or subscribing to cable...I have more pressing issues to deal with re: to the former and I have a big problem with the cable swine. Direct tv and dishes have their own problems and I'm pretty sure I know how WWll winds up...

the only reason now to go to a movie theater is for some kind of social interaction.

EEEK!!! "...social interaction..." is that what it is? Well, again we differ...The movie experience isn't what it once was in the big, old movie theaters in the days of yore...If I wanted to go to a living room sized venue, to deal with the filth and the noisy neighbors, it wouldn't be a problem...however, my wife and I take great pains to avoid contact with most of "humanity"...we'd rather go out and take a hike...

jimHJJ(...anyway, nice talkin' with ya...)

[E-Stat]

I really didn't mean to embark on one of those tangental topics that seem to occur with regularity 'round here, just providing the courtesy of a response to E-Stat...

Thanks for the comments. It seemed that the original thread idea had pretty much completed.

rw

[frankmarsi]

All I'm saying is that FR alone (or singly if you please) does not a great speaker make. Witness the AR-LST. What a toad. But it looked great on paper! Or you can equalize any number of speakers to be flat, but not possess especially high resolution.



From my perspective, if you are using an equalizer using any number of active devices with a stated output voltage, then the answer is yes. Most folks don't consider a resistor (either fixed or variable) and a cap like you find in a speaker crossover as a "gain stage".

rw

Dear Sir, I resent your comment that the AR-LST is a 'toad'. I run 4 stacked and they're probably the best sounding speakers going!

[E-Stat]

Dear Sir, I resent your comment that the AR-LST is a 'toad'. I run 4 stacked and they're probably the best sounding speakers going!

Whoa, I had forgotten this thread from seven months ago.

Actually, that was the term the salesperson at Hi-Fi Buys who sold them used. He was not very impressed with them.

Double LSTs. What amp(s) do you use with them?

rw

[Pat D]

People keep commenting that 3db is the smallest noticable change in performance, but to me 3db sounds like a nautical mile. Just a 2db bump in the midbass stands out to me bigtime. A 3db shelving of the treble sounds like a blanket over the tweeter! Possibly why I liked the Totem Mani-2 so much. The thing sounded dead flat across a good portion of the spectrum.

I have never heard that 3 dB is the smallest noticeable change! Unless it's a very narrow peak--as with the Totem Mani-2.

I also think the Totem Mani-2 is a very fine sounding speaker, very neutral if not quite perfect.

[GMichael]

I have never heard that 3 dB is the smallest noticeable change! Unless it's a very narrow peak--as with the Totem Mani-2.

I also think the Totem Mani-2 is a very fine sounding speaker, very neutral if not quite perfect.

I listened to several Totem speakers. Don't remember the models but each and every pair sounded very nutural to me. Clear, crisp with great imaging. Unless you walked right up to the speaker you couldn't tell which one was on.

I can hear a 1dB change. 3 dB is a huge swing to me.

[gonefishin]

Well here goes an interesting question maybe.

Why do warm or cold sounds matter if you seek reality?
I mean, a completely neutral unit has no tendency to warm or cold sound. Shouldnt the quest be to find the most neutralest of components?

-Flo

Having a neutral system is only accomplished by those same audiophools who believe they also have found the point of diminishing returns.


Do you believe your speakers and system are neutral and without color? I would doubt you do.

(I think I got this right...)
Fröhliche Weihnachten!,

dan