Is using an EQ cheating?

[PAT.P]

Gee that's funny. I've never seen an EQ or for that matter, a board, or PA bins whenever I go to the symphony. Or a truly live Jazz ensemble. Or listening to my wife play the baby grand.

There must be a reason.

rw

Are we not talking about using EQ with speakers?I listen to live performance probably more than you .I work in churches for the past 25 years ,I listen to the Organ on a daily basis ,grand piano.I tell you right now there not one speaker that could be equivalent to the real thing.

[E-Stat]

Are we not talking about using EQ with speakers?

Nope. I'm responding to your false statement that All studio,concert ,band use EQ . Fortunately, that is not the case. My live reference is devoid of speakers, much less EQ.

I listen to live performance probably more than you .

Maybe, maybe not. The wife plays our piano almost nightly.

I listen to the Organ on a daily basis ,grand piano.I tell you right now there not one speaker that could be equivalent to the real thing.

When you say "The Organ", I trust you mean an air driven pipe organ. Indeed live is better than recorded. I'm not sure I get your point with respect to electronic EQ.

rw

[topspeed]

Let me just state that I am not against EQ. I'm against a reviewer using EQ to make a bad $6K speaker sound better. That's wrong. That would be like a car reviewer complaining about a test vehicle's lack of step-off and then slapping a supercharger on it and declaring "All Better!" Call it like it is, that's all I'm sayin'.

This thread has actually taken a nice side step from one man's rant ( ) into an interesting discussion on today's eq's. While I don't have any on my rig, I have definitely considered adding a BFD for my sub at the very minimum. The only thing stopping me is that I only use my sub for HT, so it's not a priority. Of course, the flip side is that if I applied the BFD, I'd probably use my sub for music more often! 6 one way, half a dozen the other...

As I understand it, the most sophisticated correction devices (TacT, Meridian) actually correct the signal in the digital realm, no? This in itself leaves gaping holes for arguments for and against particular DSP's, DAC's, and other processing links in the chain. Analog devices such as the Behringer can add distortion, so neither method is perfect.

Yet.

Ironically enough, there was a great article on this very topic in TAS not long ago. In fact, these "Roundtable Discussions" are the best part of the whole mag, IMO.

[Woochifer]

Gee that's funny. I've never seen an EQ or for that matter, a board, or PA bins whenever I go to the symphony. Or a truly live Jazz ensemble. Or listening to my wife play the baby grand.

There must be a reason.

rw

Both Disney Hall in Los Angeles and Davies Symphony Hall in San Francisco have PA setups, as well as control rooms with mixing boards. Disney Hall uses a Yamaha mixing board with a custom JBL PA system, while Davies Hall uses a Meyer Sound PA setup. Have to have some house setup for soloists, otherwise they're inaudible whenever the rest of the accompaniment joins in. I'm going to a performance of Carmina Burana on Thursday night at Davies, and I know for a fact that the soloists will be mic'd and amped through the Davies Hall PA system.

Every other live sound reinforcement application I've ever seen includes an EQ, including small jazz ensemble gigs.

[E-Stat]

I'm going to a performance of Carmina Burana on Thursday night at Davies, and I know for a fact that the soloists will be mic'd and amped through the Davies Hall PA system.

That is among my favorites - enjoy yourself!

Every other live sound reinforcement application I've ever seen includes an EQ, including small jazz ensemble gigs.

I never said they didn't exist and your example is a rare exception. I was simply pointing out to PAT.P that the converse is certainly not true either, especially with acoustical music venues.

I have yet to hear a fully PA driven musical event that didn't sound like crap.

rw

[Woochifer]

That is among my favorites - enjoy yourself!

This will be my fourth time seeing it performed live, those first three bars still gives me shivers every time I hear them!

I never said they didn't exist and your example is a rare exception. I was simply pointing out to PAT.P that the converse is certainly not true either, especially with acoustical music venues.

I have yet to hear a fully PA driven musical event that didn't sound like crap.

rw

I don't know if PA systems are a rarity in symphony halls, every one I've ever visited has one in place. The one inside of Davies gives just enough lift on the vocals and soloists so that they can be heard alongside a full orchestral section and/or chorus. Meyer Sound does a great job with designing theatrical and concert hall PA systems, and the use of their system at Davies is very unintrusive.

And with other live sound applications, the house mix is often necessary just to maintain a proper balance between all of the different instruments and vocals. Just last weekend, I saw a jazz ensemble in a room that seats no more than about 50 people. Everything was clearly audible, but the trumpet, trombone, and drum kit could easily overpower the vocals, saxophone, acoustic bass, and piano. The PA system was necessary just to ensure that everything could be heard by miking the softer instruments and vocals, and leaving the louder instruments unamplified.

[PAT.P]

Nope. I'm responding to your false statement that All studio,concert ,band use EQ . Fortunately, that is not the case. My live reference is devoid of speakers, much less EQ.


Maybe, maybe not. The wife plays our piano almost nightly.


When you say "The Organ", I trust you mean an air driven pipe organ. Indeed live is better than recorded. I'm not sure I get your point with respect to electronic EQ.

rw

Im back from church .Yes I do mean a full size Pipe organ with 2500 pipes and a 16 foot tall Pipe.Replacement around $600,000 ,this thing as the high and lows.Now getting back to EQ ,some people think that using a EQ is because the speakers are no good and we should buy a better speaker.We are all trying to have our speaker to sound more imaging .Some buy expensive gear,source,cables ,room treatment is this all also to get our dear speaker to be close to the real thing.For me a EQ is the cheapest way and a sure way if used the proper way.Some use Feedback Destroyer for sub(its also a speaker),some use a mixer,some receiver have a built in EQ and the list goes on.