Thoughts on the future of HiFi

[RGA]

As a point of reference, exactly what systems are we comparing? Don't get me wrong - I have two vinyl playback systems and have content going back to 1969 when I started this game.

rw

Here in lies a vast difficulty in making comparisons. For example the best overall sound I have heard was the new Audio Note TT3 reference player in an all Audio Note system of stupid prices. But it was the best sound I have heard. Playing back several different vinyl pieces. The DAC 5 sig at $76k connected to a Philips Pro device is also the best CD replay I have heard (both should be at these prices I grant you). The vinyl sounds better than the digital. Like it or not, RGA is a fanboy or not, the DAC 5 is widely considered to be "one of" the very best sounding players that CD is capable of. You can make arguments for others but it is without question in the "running" as the best CD reproducers available. The turntable rig sounds better and the manufacturer says the same - as did Linn with their best table bettering their digital.

Going off brand presents far more difficulty. For instance I could take a Clearaudio or a Rega player and connect it up to my stereo and it may very well be that I could prefer an EMM Labs (which also is considered to be one of the very best in the world in designing CD replay - I know people who went from Audio Note to EMM Labs so IME it had to be outstanding and that is what I heard at CES). With the Clearaudio/Rega example they make noted players but in a mix and match set-up more and more becomes less and less controllable to get a great match. The phono stage or the preamplifier's phon stage may not be up to the task of getting all it can from the rig. It is "easier" to make the comparisons with companies that make both CD and turntables and IMO LINN, Rega, Audio Note turntables sound better than their CD and digital. Bringing in off brands then brings us to possible mismatches where anything goes. I have heard the DAC five in a non Audio Note system and it sounded pretty bad. Best I have heard to pretty bad illustrates that system matching is absolutely critical.

So I leave it to the manufacturers - and compare the best set-ups they can muster VS the best set-ups from a vinyl front end and the latter has won the day. I realize there are "pitfalls" in this and that is why I highlight it here. It ends up always coming back to the loudspeakers because you can have a great speaker and a medium quality vinyl front end that will sound better than the best digital in the world held back by medium speakers or amplification (as was the case with the DAC 5).

I think it is FAR harder for most of the people reading these threads to make good comparisons with top vinyl replay because very few dealers carry any of it. Or tubes or SET. People get the most experience with what is available to them. Even in a "rich" city like Vancouver there are not many dealers carrying quality vinyl replay or Single Ended amplifiers or even tube amps. Some carry one or two lines of turntables - Clearaudio(not their better ones), Rega and Project, MMF but this is not really indicative of what vinyl is all about. It scratches the surface to use a bad pun.

Very few dealers are as good as Soundhounds in Victoria BC that has some of the best of all technologies. They carry the Linn and Meridian/soolos streaming systems and they're very very good. I have no problem with people saying they flatten CD sound - they do to many (which may be why Linn stopped making cd players). They also sell top flight CD replay in Audio Note, Meridian, and they also sell top flight vinyl, Linn, Audio Note, among others. And then the SS amps from Bryston, Classe, Musical Fidelity, McIntosh(and tube), Meridian, Sim Audio etc. And then tube amps, Audio Note, Octave, McIntosh, Wyatech, ASL. Then the variety of speakers, Quad, Magnepan, Audio Note, Meridian, Dynaudio, Paradigm, Harbeth, Sonu Faber, B&W, Paradigm, etc.

It allows people to get a sense of what a $500 turntable is doing and a $5k or $20k turntable is doing and what a variety of different kinds of digital technologies are bringing to the table.

Lastly I say again I am not "against" the new technologies - I would like something like the Soolos myself - not against at all - I say again I have an ipod in the car - there is a difference between what I have heard as the "best sound that I have heard" versus the practicalities of ease of use and downright price. As much as I like the TT3 I will never be able to afford it so in a sense the argument is moot anyway!

[E-Stat]

Here in lies a vast difficulty in making comparisons.

Do I gather correctly in this novelette that you have not compared the same recording on vinyl vs an exceptional SACD player? Why limit your choices to only companies that produce both?

[RGA]

Do I gather correctly in this novelette that you have not compared the same recording on vinyl vs an exceptional SACD player? Why limit your choices to only companies that produce both?

I did auditions years back when SACD was fairly new. It didn't impress me in itself on any recording nor did it a couple years ago. While vinyl on the same system of the same recordings did. My only issues was that some of the music was foreign to me because SACD had at those times limited selections. The SACD in these cases were Sony's best players. So I don't know how you would rank Sony at SACD. Their top of the line machines seem to be fairly well regarded at those times however.

[E-Stat]

I did auditions years back when SACD was fairly new. It didn't impress me in itself on any recording nor did it a couple years ago. While vinyl on the same system of the same recordings did.

On what systems did you actually compare the same recording on vinyl vs. SACD?

My only issues was that some of the music was foreign to me because SACD had at those times limited selections.

That would be a definite problem.

The SACD in these cases were Sony's best players. So I don't know how you would rank Sony at SACD.

Not very highly.

rw

[RGA]

On what systems did you actually compare the same recording on vinyl vs. SACD?

The SACD comparison was Martin Logan 2chanel and surround sound with Bryston and EAD and a Linn LP 12. CD player was Cal Labs

I suppose the problem though is that I first have to "like" the sound of SACD in order to bother with spending huge amounts of time with it. I am currently reviewing a $3500 cd player - If you know of a dedicated SACD machine that you feel would better it perhaps I can bring some in to compare. I already have a few top recorded SACD/CD discs in my collection from IsoMike. My turntable rig is in the $5k price range so I could easily get albums of all three. I have numerous albums already on vinyl and CD so buying the SACD version would not be a big deal. It might be kind of fun to do this this summer.

If possible recommend a few SACD players in the $2k-7k range just in case I can't get some from certain makes. I will keep an open mind.

[E-Stat]

I suppose the problem though is that I first have to "like" the sound of SACD in order to bother with spending huge amounts of time with it.

I think you'll find that high resolution digital can be quite good. You really need to hear an EMM Labs player to fully understand that which it is capable. A used CD-SA can be found in the $7k range.

rw