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  1. #1
    IRG
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    Putting together a budget (as in frugally cheap) 2 channel system, help!

    OK, so I haven't been back to these boards in years, my interest waned from hi fi to playing guitar, and all of my free time and what little money I've had has gone into the electric guitar.

    So I recently redid my very budget Man Cave in the basement (where I play guitar) and I decided it's time to upgrade the old Magnavox 2 (sometimes 2, there's a short) channel boombox, lol. Yeah, it's about a $5 flea market find.

    So what I want is a very basic 2 channel system that will include a receiver, cd player, bookshelf speakers, and a turntable. I own both cds, records, burned cds. I think getting back into vinyl would be fun. And surprisingly (or not) my local music shops sell more vinyl than cd, Best Buy not included.

    Budget is really tight, not sure exactly, but I'm thinking $200/component or less. I'll upgrade as necessary over time. I don't need a high end system like what most have here. It's just for the ocassional listening session, which with 3 kids, is like never, but a guy can dream.

    I have a local stereo shop that sells nice stuff, and usually budget used stuff, I haven't been in a while, but I'll check them out too. I don't mind buying used via audiogon or even ebay, but I'll have to do research, as a lot of old stuff I'm not familiar with these days. And even new stuff, I'm not sure what's good.

    Yamah, Onkyo, NAD for the receiver? Go new or vintage? CD player and turntable, not sure which direction to go. Any new budget turntables that are worth it? Denon or Sony or?

    Speakers: I have an old pair of JBL HLS610, but the speaker is ripped, and I was told some time ago, they speaker replacement was expensive, probably not worth it. I wouldn't mind a nice newer pair anyway. Polk, Kef, Paradigm, Infinity, Monitor Audio, Insignia (yeah, their $70 pair intrigues me). I don't think I'll use a sub either, I want this simple, for now. I can always upgrade later. It also doesn't need to be real loud, it's a small room.

    Music will be for some jazz, blues, classical, rock. No rap or techno stuff. So, where should I begin, advice, gear to look for, it's been a long time since I've checked out this stuff, sorry for the long post. Cheers.

  2. #2
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    I would recommend checking Craigslist or local thrifts for vintage receivers that have the phono stage built in, an older Pioneer, Kenwood, Marantz or Sansui. You should be able to find an older receiver for under $100.00. Haven't heard the Insignia but BB has a 30 return if you don't like them. I was looking for some stuff for a friend and noticed they also sell a pair of Sony 8" 3-way floor speakers for $169.00 a pair. I would also look used for a turntable, a vintage Pioneer or Technics. It may not sound great but you can find used DVD players for under $50.00, well under usually, a DVD player will play CD's. If going new you would spend your budget on just one piece. There are also a lot of speakers on Craigslist too. Many of which are cheap, if you can find some in good condition that may be an option as well. Good hunting.....

  3. #3
    IRG
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    Thanks Mr. Peabody. I don't live in a large community, just checked out the CL offerings, and really nothing there. But I'll keep an eye out more now. Plus the local shop seems to get some decent used gear. I wish they would list it online, but they don't.

    I've always felt that speakers seems to make the most sense to splurge a bit, but a decent amp is important too, as are the tt and cd/dvd players. I might spend a bit more to have "decent" equipment, vs. stuff that works for the moment. I have good intentions of spending little, but it never seems to work out that way, lol.

    With turntables, I know very little. Does it makes sense to buy a cheap(er) but new model now, and upgrade later? Or maybe spend a bit more now for an older but maybe better model? I know it's all relative, a $1k tt to some, is a budget model. But anything new from Sony, Denon, etc. worth getting at all? My vinyl collection is pretty much terrible, but I would like to start getting some nice stuff on vinyl in the future, so the investment would be worth it. As for CD's I have quite a few, and I burn some off the computer, so that is important too, and a decent cd player is probably worthwhile. Maybe an older Sony ES model, or the current one with SACD? I don't have any discs on SACD, so maybe it's moot.

    As for amps, are the current offerings of a 2 channel receiver from Onkyo, Yamaha or Denon pretty good? I do use the AM/FM, otherwise I might go integrated, but I don't think I would realize the sonic benefits of a better amp in this system, not yet anyway. Wouldn't mind a nice tube amp in the future, like the 2 I have for my guitars. But for now, it will have to be ss.

  4. #4
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    All new options (although I'm over budget)...

    Denon DRA-297 receiver - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3365.asp

    Denon DP-300F turntable - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3145.asp

    Denon DVD-1740 DVD/CD player - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3744.asp

    Paradigm Atom - http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/...4-1-1.paradigm


    I really don't think it makes as much sense to buy a cheap new turntable now and upgrade later as it does to just buy something decent, now. It's not a huge investment to buy a Denon DP-300F or Pro-Ject Debut III and it should be good for many years. With either turntable, I'd look at a cartridge upgrade at some point. It's less urgent with the Pro-Ject turntable than the Denon. The advantage of the Denon is its built-in phono preamp so you don't need a phono input on the receiver. Receivers with phono inputs are less common than they used to be, so needing one would limit your options.
    Last edited by 02audionoob; 01-11-2010 at 07:26 AM.

  5. #5
    IRG
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    Thanks man, funny I was doing a little research, and I came up with that same turntable (Denon). I think that might be a good idea, get a better cartridge later one, I like that idea.

    How would the Denon receiver compare to the Yamaha RX397?

    As for speakers, I'll check out the Atom. I have a pair of Paradigm Monitor 3s in my main system, they've been good speakers. I was also checking out the Polk RTi4 or th Tsi100, both pairs get good reviews, under $200. But I'll check out the Atoms for sure.

    I'll check out that Denon DVD/Cd player option too... thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    All new options (although I'm over budget)...

    Denon DRA-297 receiver - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3365.asp

    Denon DP-300F turntable - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3145.asp

    Denon DVD-1740 DVD/CD player - http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3744.asp

    Paradigm Atom - http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/...4-1-1.paradigm


    I really don't think it makes as much sense to buy a cheap new turntable now and upgrade later as it does to just buy something decent, now. It's not a huge investment to buy a Denon DP-300F or Pro-Ject Debut III and it should be good for many years. With either turntable, I'd look at a cartridge upgrade at some point. It's less urgent with the Pro-Ject turntable than the Denon. The advantage of the Denon is its built-in phono preamp so you don't need a phono input on the receiver. Receivers with phono inputs are less common than they used to be, so needing one would limit your options.

  6. #6
    IRG
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    How much do the Atoms run normally, new?

  7. #7
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Seems like they were $250 at the time of this review...

    http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/907para/

    and you have a dealer in Ithaca, but I guess you probably knew that.

  8. #8
    IRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    Seems like they were $250 at the time of this review...

    http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/907para/

    and you have a dealer in Ithaca, but I guess you probably knew that.
    Yes I do have a local dealer, that's where I got my Monitor 3s, but it's been a long time since I've been there. Time to go visit again!

  9. #9
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Paradigm Mini Monitor's that were built in the late 90's were great speakers for small monitor type speakers as well and I have seen them go for under 100 dollars in rare occasions but most of the time around 100 to 120 dollars for the pair used. I used to sell Paradigm and the Mini Monitor was one of our good sellers for people in apartments or for second systems in a bedroom or "Mancave". As far as a receiver,turntable, and cd player there are so many options ou there in used stuff that are really good deals that it would probably be easier for you to look around and get a list of stuff that you have found that is affordable for you and then come back and post about these pieces and let all of t us discuss which pieces are going to give you the most for your money. I know this might take a little longer but having several minds on a task like this is better than just one in my opinion. There are a few other speakers out there like the Mini Monitor that are great for the money. PSB speakers make some small speakers that are very good and cheap used. Wharfedale makes a few affordable speakers but I can not advise them since I have not heard a pair of their newer speakers. I would look around audiogon and ebay like you said or craiglist and get your eyes open for a good deal.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  10. #10
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Receivers- Harmon Kardon 338o, 3480 http://www.gadgetreview.com/2009/12/...5-shipped.html
    http://techronics.com/caraudio_1303_...html?aff=72182

    Onkyo Tx 8522- http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-8522-...3235283&sr=8-1

    Cd Player Marantz cd5003 http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/...868e16b3762776

    Speakers- Energy C-300's

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC300


    Check out www.saturdayaudio.com Look at their demo gear for sale. They have an Onkyo Integra 7.1ch receiver for $299, list was $800. They also have some Denon DVD players on sale. The Denon DVD players make for a decent CD player.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  11. #11
    IRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07
    Paradigm Mini Monitor's that were built in the late 90's were great speakers for small monitor type speakers as well and I have seen them go for under 100 dollars in rare occasions but most of the time around 100 to 120 dollars for the pair used. I used to sell Paradigm and the Mini Monitor was one of our good sellers for people in apartments or for second systems in a bedroom or "Mancave". As far as a receiver,turntable, and cd player there are so many options ou there in used stuff that are really good deals that it would probably be easier for you to look around and get a list of stuff that you have found that is affordable for you and then come back and post about these pieces and let all of t us discuss which pieces are going to give you the most for your money. I know this might take a little longer but having several minds on a task like this is better than just one in my opinion. There are a few other speakers out there like the Mini Monitor that are great for the money. PSB speakers make some small speakers that are very good and cheap used. Wharfedale makes a few affordable speakers but I can not advise them since I have not heard a pair of their newer speakers. I would look around audiogon and ebay like you said or craiglist and get your eyes open for a good deal.
    Thanks Harley for the feedback, I was going to suggest something similar, after some research, about posting some potential gear, and see how you all think it stacks up. Half the fun is the chase, isn't it? I do like PSB stuff, and Paradigm too. Haven't used Wharfedale myself, but I recall them being well received generally.

  12. #12
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRG
    Half the fun is the chase, isn't it?
    You bet! It's fun playing with this stuff and learning as we go.......
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  13. #13
    IRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Receivers- Harmon Kardon 338o, 3480 http://www.gadgetreview.com/2009/12/...5-shipped.html
    http://techronics.com/caraudio_1303_...html?aff=72182

    Onkyo Tx 8522- http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-8522-...3235283&sr=8-1

    Cd Player Marantz cd5003 http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/...868e16b3762776

    Speakers- Energy C-300's

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC300


    Check out www.saturdayaudio.com Look at their demo gear for sale. They have an Onkyo Integra 7.1ch receiver for $299, list was $800. They also have some Denon DVD players on sale. The Denon DVD players make for a decent CD player.

    Thanks for the links, definitely some good stuff to check out here. I hadn't thought of a DVD player in lieu of a "dedicated" cd player. But the Denon one that was listed in the earlier post above, is actually cheaper new, and it does SACD and DVD Audio, so score.

  14. #14
    IRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by manlystanley
    You bet! It's fun playing with this stuff and learning as we go.......
    Well my guitar gear GAS has been out of control for a while, I figure I should spread it back to audio for a while I liked that reviewer from Stereophile, Sam Tellig I think his name was, the frugal audiophile, or whatever his moniker was. I like looking for a budget system that sounds good, but isn't tons of money. My guitar rig is kinda like that too. I probably have $2k or more just in guitar pedals. But I've been downsizing lately, sort of liberating too.

  15. #15
    IRG
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    How is this Yamaha DVD player, as a cd unit? Seems to get good reviews for its audio features, almost 3 years old now, was $449, but is $79 at Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-DVD-S18...3246520&sr=1-1

  16. #16
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRG
    Well my guitar gear GAS has been out of control for a while, I figure I should spread it back to audio for a while I liked that reviewer from Stereophile, Sam Tellig I think his name was, the frugal audiophile, or whatever his moniker was. I like looking for a budget system that sounds good, but isn't tons of money. My guitar rig is kinda like that too. I probably have $2k or more just in guitar pedals. But I've been downsizing lately, sort of liberating too.
    Yeah I have several hobbies which include Audio, bass playing, and harley davidsons and they all take a lot of money to keep up with so sometimes you kind of got to step back and say which one will make the happiest to concentrate on right now and go with it. My Bass rig is awesome and I have 2 bad ass basses so I am done with that for now so my next steps will be my audio system and possibly a new lcd tv.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  17. #17
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRG
    How is this Yamaha DVD player, as a cd unit? Seems to get good reviews for its audio features, almost 3 years old now, was $449, but is $79 at Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-DVD-S18...3246520&sr=1-1
    For $79 its worth a look. If you don't like it your only out $79 and can buy something nicer when you have more money. I would get some decent IC's like bluejeanscables for $30pr. I'd put the money saved to a Harmon Kardon receiver.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  18. #18
    IRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    For $79 its worth a look. If you don't like it your only out $79 and can buy something nicer when you have more money. I would get some decent IC's like bluejeanscables for $30pr. I'd put the money saved to a Harmon Kardon receiver.

    I'm leaning towards the Yamaha RX-397 at the moments, this one here: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RX39...97.html?tp=179

    Seems to get really good reviews everywhere. Which Harmon Kardon would you recommend over the Yamaha? Also, if I went with the Yamaha receiver, it should be able to control that Yamaha dvd player too I would think, at least basic controls, which would be enough.

    Is the QC with HarmondKardon good these days? Always seemed to be an issue as I recall years ago. I currently have a NAD 5 channel receiver in the living room, nothing fancy at all, but this thing gets used for hours a day, and has been great overall. If I could find a good affordable NAD I would go that route too. But something about the Yamaha receivers I've always liked too.

    Also leaning towards the Denon 300F turntable at the moment. For $300, or maybe less, I don't think I can beat that. Upgrade the cartridge later.

    Edit, I see the HK 3390 you mentioned earlier, checking it out now at Amazon...

  19. #19
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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  20. #20
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I am not sure about the HK quality control either but I do know that they sell some units at Best Buy and I talked to one of the managers there and they said they aren't bad but the quality does not seem to be what Denon, Onkyo, And some Yamaha are doing now but I used to be an avid Yamaha fan and I will say that in new units it seems to me that Denon and Onkyo have one upped Yamaha in the last couple years when it comes to quality. Its all up to you on whether you go new or used but for your purpose I think a used unit that is more dedicated to 2 channel stereo would serve you better. Possibly a used integrated amp since almost every integrated amplifier I have seen put better preamp and amplifier components in them than their receiver counterparts. Plus a used av receiver would have a lot of extra stuff on it that you will probably never use for music playback. I have plenty of used integrated amps from Denon and Yamaha among others that are cheaply priced and offer in my opinion better overall sound quality than most of the receivers going in the under 1000 dollar mark in todays world. Just my two cents

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  21. #21
    IRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob

    Nice find, thanks! I knew this place would help me spend $$$. And help me save it.

  22. #22
    IRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07
    I am not sure about the HK quality control either but I do know that they sell some units at Best Buy and I talked to one of the managers there and they said they aren't bad but the quality does not seem to be what Denon, Onkyo, And some Yamaha are doing now but I used to be an avid Yamaha fan and I will say that in new units it seems to me that Denon and Onkyo have one upped Yamaha in the last couple years when it comes to quality. Its all up to you on whether you go new or used but for your purpose I think a used unit that is more dedicated to 2 channel stereo would serve you better. Possibly a used integrated amp since almost every integrated amplifier I have seen put better preamp and amplifier components in them than their receiver counterparts. Plus a used av receiver would have a lot of extra stuff on it that you will probably never use for music playback. I have plenty of used integrated amps from Denon and Yamaha among others that are cheaply priced and offer in my opinion better overall sound quality than most of the receivers going in the under 1000 dollar mark in todays world. Just my two cents
    I hear what you're saying. But the Yamaha's RX line is a 2 channel stereo only, no ht stuff on it, which I like. So it's basically no frills, sort of like a decent integrated amp, but with the am/fm added. The Denon and Onkyo still interest me too. I had a 2 channel Onkyo way back, and it was a great little receiver. I also had an Onkyo power/pre amp that was good too, although pretty basic.

  23. #23
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Here's a good place to get a deal on a 2-channel Onkyo receiver:

    http://www.accessories4less.com/make...h-Black/1.html

    or a Marantz with phono input...

    http://www.accessories4less.com/make...itching/1.html

  24. #24
    IRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    Here's a good place to get a deal on a 2-channel Onkyo receiver:

    http://www.accessories4less.com/make...h-Black/1.html

    or a Marantz with phono input...

    http://www.accessories4less.com/make...itching/1.html
    I've been checking them out too, especially the Onkyo. Is AC4Less a reputably place?

  25. #25
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    As the resident cheap bast@#rd I can tell that putting together a somewhat decent 2-channel set-up is possible with a little patience, a little luck and a little know-how. My tastes tend towards older gear and I have been fortunate to put together 2 or 3 2-channel systems in the $200-$250 range with gear from Denon-Marantz-Advent etc.

    Your local CL is a good source and so are local thrift stores. This can be a bit of a challenge if you live in a small community but the Syracuse-Ithaca area should afford some opportunities.
    NAD D3020
    Denon 2910
    Denon DMD 1000
    MSB Link DAC III
    Von Schweikert VR2
    NAD 7240PE
    NAD 5240
    Hughes AK 100
    Tascam 122
    Technics SL 1700
    Rogers BBC Monitors LS3/6

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