SACD vs. CD - Unfair competition?

[WmAx]

SACD vs. CD - Unfair competition?

I have made note of two albums that were released on both SACD and CD. The albums were mastered in DSD(SACD native format) and primarily intended to showcase DSD.

(1) Tierney Sutton - Dancing In The Dark (CD version, Telarc)

(2) Mahler - Symphony No. 6 in A minor (CD version, Telarc)

Both of these albums were found, by me, to have audible sections of clipping on the CD versions. I did not analyse the SACD releases. I don't have the SACD versions nor do I have a SACD player. However, I still suspected this may be purposeful.

The point of this post is to question if the proclomations of people claiming SACD is audibly superior to CD format, even when both are used in 2 channel mode, have any validitiy.

Let's consider the following points:

(1) I can not find a scientific research project demonstrating audibly benefits to humans of a wider bandwidth then CD offers.

(2) I can not find definitive research of SACD vs CD releases, to find alternative explanations.

(3) I can not find reason for larger then 16 bit wordlength for audio playback, especially when properly dithered, which can effectively remove the quantitazation noise and allow the theoretical limit of CD of 96dB to be approached and/or met.

This thread is primarily a result of the alarming(my perspective) response I recieved from the cheif audio production engineer from a major audiophile record compnay.

Company: Telarc
Represenative: Michael Bishop

In the following email is posted in it's entiretey. My full name has been edited. No other changes:

Dear Chris,

I forwarded your email to our Chief Engineer and I've copied his reply to
you in the email below:
Thank you for your email regarding CD-83592 Dancing in the Dark.

I checked the waveform example of the piano "distortion." In my opinion,
what is seen there is the peak limiting and "soft clipping" imposed in the
CD mastering process on this particular release. The piano is not
distorted. If that was the case one would see jagged artifacts around the
piano level "peak" rather than the level simply stopping 0.10 dB from the
peak. Of course, this does not mean that such a high peak will not cause
distortion on some playback systems. That's entirely possible and is
something out of our control.

The Tierney Sutton "Dancing in the Dark" CD release is put up side-by-side
with Diana Krall and Norah Jones releases and other similar jazz vocal CDs.
Like it or not, those CDs are quite heavily compressed and limited (much
more so than the Sutton CD) and have very high apparent volumes. They also
exhibit an even more pronounced cut-off of peak levels. Since Tierney's CD
will be put in multi-disc CD players alongside these other CDs, we have to
make sure her CD stands at least a chance of being as "present" as the
competition and still maintain as much of the dynamics of my original mixes
as possible. It's a very delicate balancing act. Certainly compromises
are made, just as in any other mainstream CD that has high apparent volume
level. I know one would find much more aggregious level compression taking
place on most mainstream CDs than what you would find on "Dancing in the
Dark."

If you are interested, the DSD stereo and surround programs on the SACD
release of "Dancing in the Dark" (SA-63592) do NOT have this competitive
compression imposed on the audio. The DSD programs represent what I
recorded in the mixes from the sessions without the compromises needed on
the CD-only release. However, the CD layer of the SACD is exactly the same
as the CD-only release. To access the DSD programs, one needs the
appropriate SACD player which is available at major electronic retailers
starting at around $200 USD, although I never recommend that one gets the
"bottom-of-the-line" player.

I offer that you may trade your CD-only release of "Dancing in the Dark"
for the SACD release. Please contact Ms. Kelly to arrange this trade.

I hope you have the opportunity to hear the DSD program of this release.
That is, after all, the source I had recorded at Ms. Sutton's sessions and
the pcm CD is a derivative of that source.

Thank you again for your email and interest.

Michael Bishop
Chief Recording Engineer
Telarc International Corp.




"WmAx"
<wmax@linaeum.com
> To
<comments@telarc.com>
05/14/2004 04:29 cc
PM
Subject
Tierney Sutton - Dancing In The
Dark - Quality Control?





Greetings. I have purchased Telarc CD-83592 (Tierney Sutton - Dancing In
The Dark).

I am alarmed to find multiple sections on the CD to have audible distortion
due to levels reaching 0 dB(1.0) on the recording. One example, for
reference, is that several sections of track 10 have distorted peaks of the
piano. Here is a screen capture of track 10. This is not an exclusive
occurance limited to this shot. Just an example for your reference.

Was their an error when some of the CDs were mastered for production? If
you have versions that are not defective, I would appreciate a replacement
CD. The one I have IS defective. The distortion levels are very audible and
thus annoying.

http://www.linaeum.com/images/sutton_clip.jpg

Thank you.

-Chris XXXXX

Let's examine a few points.

-Claims soft clipping/limiting, that should not be audible distortion.

This is not entirely accurate. The sudden transient change(distortion) of the waveform to a plateu MUST result in harmonics not related to teh original waveform.What Bishop is referring to is that the clipped section does not display an oscillating artifact. INdeed, in example of a pure square wave, severe pre and post ringing is visible on the waveforms under analysis(resultant from the limitiations of the format). However, this clipped form on these tracks, while not as abrupt as maximal transient, is still a sudden, drastic change from the linear progression of the original waveform that results in audible distortion(s). See the url I submiteed as the end of my initial email to Telarc for a visual confirmation. This waveform results in audible distortion in every playback device i have access. It also persists when I reduce absolute levels of the clipped waveforms and then play them back on hardware.

This reply from Mr. Bishop, if accurate, means that CD versions, even from this known audiophile record company, are being compromised. This is my definition of unfair competition.

Is this a standard behaviour for other record companies of CD/SACD versions? I can't answer that question. It does seem to be the behaviour of at least one company, according to their own admission(s).

It's especially hard to swallow the admission that they are raising overall loudness levels and allowing artifacts and other negative side effects to arise, because they are 'competeting' with other albums. I had believed that Telarc would not lower their quality purposefully in order to join the 'stupid' race to loudness. I was wrong, apparently.

It is further confusing what he means by competition. I have asked him to clarify in my reply email sent today. However, if he means radio broadcast levels, then his argument is invalid. Music that is radio broadcast is compressed/limited before broadcast in order to maintain optimal signal/noise ratio from the transmitter stations. Does he mean that consumers are so stupid(even audiophiles who largely buy from his compnay) that they think a louder CD is better? That's hard for me to believe. I'de like to see a study on this speculation.

I recommend contacting the company and complaing about this practice. That may be the only recourse.

-Chris