Power cord question

[E-Stat]

I have read all too much discussion about power cords, interconnects and speaker wire and tend to hold the opinion that after a certain point in quality, translate that in my opinion to "gauge of wire" and quality of insulation, there should not be much difference.

Too many folks focus solely on resistance which is not the only factor. For speaker cables inductance make a bigger difference. Guys like Roger Russell completely ignore the interaction of the cable with the speaker's crossover network and the amplifier driving the load. They look at the cable in a vacuum and merely calculate resistance loss tables. Smarter guys understand that cables play an active part of a system. Here is a interesting article that speaks to this issue. Also read part 5 which is linked at the end. Gene Czerwinski (of Cerwin-Vega fame) was quite surprised at the results of real world tests. Also, when you use electrostatic speakers as I do (which appear as a giant capacitor), capacitance also becomes important from the amplifier's perspective. For ICs, capacitance has a greater impact. Especially if you choose to bypass using an active preamp like I do with my CD source. Low dielectric constant cabling is more expensive.

If the digital data is successfully transferred, then the DACS or other devices as may be in a PC can do their job - in sum, like little digital switches and computers themselves, it is either on or off. It works or it doesn't.

Once again, folks focus on the wrong issue. The core issue with digital is timing. Yes, the march of bits may be there, but if shifted in time, you lose focus and resolution. That's also the nature of jitter. All the data gets there, just not at the right time.

Even as sensitive as my hearing may be I don't know if I can or will be able to hear the difference in such a thing as a power cord.

Even amplifiers with huge power supplies can benefit from the RF filtering and shielding afforded by some power cords. The only issue I have with the IAR report is that it seems to assume that ALL aftermarket power cords are created equally. They are not and cost is certainly not the determining factor in their performance. I was skeptical myself at first until I spent considerable time borrowing a friend's cords. You really must audition any cable in your own system before choosing to buy. The differences are subtle and they lie at the micro end of the dynamic scale. If all you do is listen to AC-DC at ear bleeding levels, then you will never hear the benefits. It is for music with low level passages where the noise reduction is evident as added detail. You hear more "rosin" of a string. Unique aspects of a singer's vocalizations. A clearer sustain of a piano chord. Longer decay of a bell tree and softer upper harmonics.

I would not recommend *audio cowboy* style quick A-B switching either. Listen for extended periods of time with a range of musical content. Then switch. Listen again for a while before switching back. Good luck!

rw

[JoeE SP9]

First - JoeE SP9 - sorry for bringing up something already well discussed - apologize for typical newbie mistake - the world did not just get created with my membership in the forum.

I do appreciate the comments made by all. There seems to be a possible distinction made between the power cordsets and interconnects with more credibility being given to interconnects having an effect on sound that power cordsets.

As noted, I am going to have the unique ability to test having two cordsets for an amp where one particular cordset was represented to make a huge difference in the sound. I will be happy to report the results in a few weeks. I am waiting for the delivery of my speakers (B&W Matrix 804s). I believe they are sensitive enough to reflect the difference the two power cordsets may impart.

I remain pleasantly sketical about the power cordsets in particular and interconnects and speaker wire - however, having been alerted to the fact that this was well discussed before and not wishing to the cause of this thread being taken over I am happy to move on to other issues.

JoeE SP9- any suggestions where the results should be posted in few weeks?

Your approach to this question is the only way to determine if there is a difference. If you hear one there is. E-Stat has mentioned that using ten second music samples is not revealing. I believe this to be so. Insert a power cord, speaker cable or interconnect and leave it in for a few days. Keep informal notes with your impressions. Swap the cable wire or whatever. Repeat the listening and note taking. Compare your notes and then decide.
There are two very different camps as you have noticed. Usually those who say there is no difference never bother to listen for themselves.

[pixelthis]

Your approach to this question is the only way to determine if there is a difference. If you hear one there is. E-Stat has mentioned that using ten second music samples is not revealing. I believe this to be so. Insert a power cord, speaker cable or interconnect and leave it in for a few days. Keep informal notes with your impressions. Swap the cable wire or whatever. Repeat the listening and note taking. Compare your notes and then decide.
There are two very different camps as you have noticed. Usually those who say there is no difference never bother to listen for themselves.

if you think there is a "difference" fine, but I assure you its more between
your ears than outside of them.
You may entertain the notion that you're ears can pick up delicate bits that escape
measuring equipment, but those "differences" are more imagination than anything
else.
I would have more respect for the "cable" crowd if they would admit the real
reason they buy these cables...
THEY LOOK COOL.
Which is fine, their is an entire industry built around customizing cars for the same reason.

[JoeE SP9]

I truly wish you would stop telling others what they can and can't hear. I have an open invite to anyone in my area to listen to different cables on my system. I have been able to demonstrate differences in IC's and speaker cables to other audiophiles and casual listeners. As far as power cords go, I have already stated that I just purchased (bought used at considerable savings) a couple and I am in the process of listening to them. I don't want to hear differences in them. I didn't want to hear differences in IC's years ago but I did. The Kimber Silver Streak IC's I use hardly qualify in the "cool" category. Nevertheless, I use them because they sound better.

If your gear, room and ears are such that you can't hear differences that's on you. On my system in my room the differences between IC's and speakers cables are audible.

More than one person has already said that the average receiver doesn't have enough resolution to enable subtle differences to be heard. If you rely on said receiver for your critical listening I suggest that's why you don't hear any differences.

If anyone is curious you should find out for yourself. I would have more respect for detractors if they actually listened for themselves instead of ridiculing anything they don't believe in.

Most of the car customizing I'm familiar with revolves around improving performance not cosmetics. This would include increasing horsepower and improving suspension components. These changes are not cosmetically inspired. Are you now going to tell me increasing horsepower is cosmetic?

[Rudy Gireyev]

So how many people know what "trolling" means?

Rudy

[E-Stat]

I truly wish you would stop telling others what they can and can't hear.

The non-experiential theorists have been here for years. I remain amazed at how much ink they spill over that which they believe has no benefit. Naturally, their exposure to said is totally absent. I went back through a couple of the more amusing exchanges I've had over the years. Here is one of them. They just don't get it. And never will since their only analytical vehicle is speculation. They assume the wrong causation, then build and burn their straw men. Here is a link called "The Truth About Esoteric Cords". The author completely ignores that the villains lie within your home, usually inches or feet away from the cord itself.


rw

[joidiamonds]

I bought this amp and hooked it up in place of my old amp and really like it, but blew the fuse by the battery about 2 days after I installed it. I now read and realize that I am supposed to use a 200 Amp fuse mine was 80, and I replaced it with a 60 and so now I am looking to replace my current fuse with a new 200 Amp fuse. Then, I also realized that I am running 4 gauge power wire and ground wire to the amp, and am supposed to use 1/0 gauge wire..

Is this a really big deal and should I not listen to music until I replace the wire? or should I even worry about changing the wire and only change the fuse?
by the way ...

This looks cool so far, what's up people?
If there's anyone else here, let me know.
Oh, and yes I'm a real person LOL.

Bye,

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[hifitommy]

in post #19

and great approach as well. i also wonder about the power wires but most of my components have captive wires. the comparison will have to wait for me to upgrade. but i am looking forward to yours.

btw, how do you like your marcof pp1 ?

[hifitommy]

Here . i guess some of these guys are trying to take his place with the insults and attempts at bullying. i can see why you gave up moderating.

those five year old posts took me back to the old days when i had to herd the chihuahuas away from the door so they wouldnt nip at the heels of anyone who tried to discuss cables or differences in electronics

i guess pixi wants to be mtry when he grows up. well, lets go buy some shock collars.

[pixelthis]

Here . i guess some of these guys are trying to take his place with the insults and attempts at bullying. i can see why you gave up moderating.

those five year old posts took me back to the old days when i had to herd the chihuahuas away from the door so they wouldnt nip at the heels of anyone who tried to discuss cables or differences in electronics

i guess pixi wants to be mtry when he grows up. well, lets go buy some shock collars.

I guess pointing out facts and reality are considered "bullying" to you.
You claim I am insulting you when its you who are insulting me by calling me a "bully".
Well, I apologise if the facts hurt your feelings, snuggle up to your pet rock for comfort, okay?

[mlsstl]

joidiamonds wrote:
I bought this amp and hooked it up in place of my old amp and really like it, but blew the fuse by the battery about 2 days after I installed it. I now read and realize that I am supposed to use a 200 Amp fuse mine was 80, and I replaced it with a 60 and so now I am looking to replace my current fuse with a new 200 Amp fuse.

Would you provide a bit more information? This doesn't make much sense.

200 amp service is normally the value one sees in a circuit breaker box that provides electricity for an entire house (air conditioner, oven, fridge, lights, in other words, everything.)

What amplifier are you speaking of that needs a 200 amp fuse? And what is the battery business all about? Even at 12 volts (car battery), 200 amps translates to 2,400 watts. (edit corrected math error)

Something is not right with this picture.

[JoeE SP9]

in post #19

and great approach as well. i also wonder about the power wires but most of my components have captive wires. the comparison will have to wait for me to upgrade. but i am looking forward to yours.

btw, how do you like your marcof pp1 ?

I'm currently giving them a shot one at a time on one of my "used to be" Haflers. The Marcof just had new batteries installed. It's just as quiet as always.

[hifitommy]

do you even know the definition of the word FACTS. i think NOT. sell your receiver and buy a dictionary.

[E-Stat]

Something is not right with this picture.

A missed attempt at humor.

rw

[E-Stat]

do you even know the definition of the word FACTS. i think NOT. sell your receiver and buy a dictionary.

"...a power cord, no matter how exotic or expensive will not do anything for you (other than lightening your wallet)."

The *facts* as surmised by a tv repairman devoid of actual experience.

rw

[mlsstl]

E-Stat wrote: "A missed attempt at humor."

Ah, the old nom de plume ploy.

Actually given what I've seen around here, the question did not look particularly unusual... ;-)

[JoeE SP9]

Would you provide a bit more information? This doesn't make much sense.

200 amp service is normally the value one sees in a circuit breaker box that provides electricity for an entire house (air conditioner, oven, fridge, lights, in other words, everything.)

What amplifier are you speaking of that needs a 200 amp fuse? And what is the battery business all about? Even at 12 volts (car battery), 200 amps translates to 2,400 watts. (edit corrected math error)

Something is not right with this picture.

I think he may be speaking of a "car stereo" amplifier. They have ratings that are just impossible.
A 12 Volt car system (battery and alternator) may be able to produce 60 Amps. I'm being very generous with that Amperage figure. According to Ohms law that's 720 Watts of power an automobile electrical system can supply. Simple logic says you can't get more power out than you put in. So, assuming you have an amp that is 75% efficient (NOT, most are 30% to 40%) that means 540 Watts is the maximum it or any other amp can produce.
I am aware of 2 Farad and larger capacitors for cars. Most car stereos don't have them. When a car has one or more they can help an amp produce a lot of peak power. Of course that presumes the amp can handle enormous amounts of current.
What I find puzzling is that when confronted with the facts according to Ohms Law car stereo enthusiasts refuse to believe the truth.