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  1. #1
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    Red face New CD player please ? no fatigue thankyou

    Hello all.

    Gee I thought auditioning the Cambridge Audio 840C was going to help complete my
    puzzle of getting my dream source player. Upscaling with options to use it as a DAC,
    sound very tempting.

    Some posts I've read suggest that this player is fatiguing. Grrrrrr...

    I have a playstation 3 original which can play SACD. I can tell you all it is allright. I was
    told the CD player in it is not that great. Hmmmm.

    I guess it would be too much to ask if any of you can suggest a 'non-fatiguing' CD
    player. If it can also play SACD then bonus.

    Features I'm seeking...

    1. Semi decent remote (can't be that hard)
    2. XLR out (gives me more options later)
    3. Single disc only (not multi CD tray or cartridge)

    I basically audtioned the following :

    1. NAD Master Series (quite good, the CD player has nothing on the SACD)
    2. Cambridge Audio 840C - tried it on both through speakers and headphones, both
    sound excellent, most impressive
    3. Raysonic CD128 - quite good, looks impressive (too many lights though)

    I'm rather short for choice, which was mainly why I waited so many years to upgrade
    my amp.

    Your thoughts please
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  2. #2
    nightflier
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    Well, I have an Audio Refinement CD Complete that so far has few equals. It's no longer current (and I bought mine used), but YBA, the parent company, makes excellent players and they would qualify as non-fatiguing. The YC201 CD Player was sold by Audio Advisor for a while, but is now only available through Audio Plus (http://www.audioplusservices.com/ourbrands.html). It's in the same price range as the CA-840c, but you could probably find a used one for much less.

    Just curious, can you expand on your eval of the NAD Master series compared to the 840c? Both were players I was considering.

  3. #3
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    I was also going to ask what the problem was with the NAD that was a player that came to mind. www.musicdirect.com was also running a special on the Marantz reference SACD player which might fit your bill. It is only 2 channel though.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    My vote is for the Marantz SA 8001, I have not heard the new SA 8003. I listen to mine for hours without fatigue. Detailed without aggression and neutral but very slightly warm. Most discs are listneable and the excellent ones are incredible. A good player for all generations of discs.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  5. #5
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    Hello thanks for the responses so far

    Hi all.

    Your responses have all been great.

    Yeah it's a bit of a problem as I have a bit of a shortage of choices in Western
    Australia.

    I will make a list thanks to your recommendations and audition them if I can.

    I have considered setting up a unit as a music server, then I'd be able to make playlists, which will save me the CD spinning/laser skip issues, plus the server option will keep my CD collection lasting much longer.

    Still the only SACD PC card on the market sell for 8K.

    I would seriously have to compare my PC/sound card with a CD source. Uncompressed
    format technicially should be the near the same quality as the CD itself.

    If I can limit the number of inputs I need I will have more options when considering a
    new Pre Amp.

    Yeah it's frustrating, as you can see I give myself more 'different options' in terms of
    set up, but still have limited options in terms of brands and models of components.

    I seriously do not like the idea of getting up from my couch every 2 songs to change
    CDs to thoroughly enjoy them. The playlist option I can escape in pure relaxation
    listening to x-tracks. To be fair the PC sound card playback is quite reasonable.
    Music does sound better on my PS3.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  6. #6
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I would consider a DAC like the Monarchy or PSAudio digilink III. They tend to have a warmer sound and have XLR. I would not hesitate to go with the 840c unless you have a brighter sounding system. It has much better detail, resolution, transparency and sound stage than the Marantz 8001 and 8003. The 840c's remote is excellent compared to the Marantz units. I had all three CDP's. If you can live without the XLR, the 740c is very similar in sound to the 840c with the same build quality and same remote.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #7
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    Hi Blackraven, thanks for the advice.

    As I recall it was yourself who did purchase a 840C then posted months later selling
    the unit. From my point of view it feels rather strange regarding advice of a unit one has
    also sold. However better to of used it than someone who hasn't. Well I did hear
    this player with my old Yam RX-V1300 wired as a pre-amp, the new Xindak power amps
    that I will be getting in a few weeks, and great pairs of speakers, at the shop.

    I'm almost convinced to get that, but I won't be happy if I find it fatiguging.

    I'll have to see if any WA stores stock Digital Link. I like the 840C's capibility to upscale
    to 24bit/384ktz.

    I have been provided the option of a music server which would save the frustration of
    getting off my couch after listening to 2 tracks, just to change CDs. The music server
    with a remote would be the ideal situatation.

    Will have to see how much they cost, how they perform and which ones can I get here
    in Western Australia.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  8. #8
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Ozzie, I regret selling my 840c. The unit does lean a little to the bright side. On most music it was fine but on certain music, mainly rock and blue's it could be a little fatiguing with my equipment. I should have kept it and used it as a transport for my hybrid DAC when listening to bright recordings. I miss the really pristine cymbals and resolution of the unit.
    I'll probably buy a used 740c or 840c again in the future to compliment my system.
    Over all I'm happy with my hybrid DAC which sounds good with all music.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  9. #9
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    Hi br, cheers for the recommendation.

    Well I raised the potential point of fatigue of the 840C to the salesman, he said it depends
    on the amp, and with the Xindaks it will handle/compensate for anything bright. There is a
    return policy which is good. Alturnatively I could bring a few CDs there and play them for
    40 mins straight there then find out then. After all the only thing that will be different will be
    the speakers. My Dyns would be the very last component which would add to anything
    fatiguing. The main reason I can keep on playing music at times.

    The 840C would solve my lack of DAC problems. I will easily fill up the 2 inputs. If only
    there were 4, I wouldn't have to get a 2-channel pre-amp haha.

    I'd still like to consider a music server option due to the practicality and remote control
    so I don't have to get up every 2 tracks, change CDs etc.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  10. #10
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    I'd still like to consider a music server option due to the practicality and remote control
    so I don't have to get up every 2 tracks, change CDs etc.[/QUOTE]


    Hi,
    If you should go that route, (with a music server), I would be interested to know which you go with and why. I an ignorant, when it comes to music servers, and don't know much about them. But I do completely understand your comment about having to get of the couch every 2 songs. It would sure make it a lot more relaxing.

  11. #11
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    Red face

    Precisely, personally speaking I luvtolisten to my music at home

    The playlist option is great, you can set up for example a 100 track one, loop it if you
    want, and never needing to get off the couch, unless it catches on fire. All the great
    work of relaxing you by listening to 2 tracks is undone every time you get off the couch.

    Just how much better is listening directly from the CD player ? Not much if you can
    retain lossless format of the same tracks on the server. That will requite 10x as much
    more space than mp3 or other compressed formats. If your hi fi is decent enough
    you can definately hear the difference between mp3 and CD (assuming the CD is a good
    recording).

    Who's to say I won't go with both options ? It's not a cost effective one. I have to
    at least audition the server and find out how it performs.

    I have way too many CDs to not consider a server.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  12. #12
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    Ozzie, were you going to stick an outboard DAC onto the server? This would optimize playback. It would be interesting to use the 840 to see if there were any difference in sound to you.

  13. #13
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    24-bit Dac ? 840C the way to go

    Hi MrP.

    Well it sounds like I'm going to get the 840C no matter what. Problem is it's 2x the price
    of a proper music server. I could stick to my PC, but it has no remote. Certain brands of
    PC do because Universal remotes can include the remote codes (like serverin HP or DELL
    PCs).

    Although the Creative Soundlabs sound cards are quite good I see they have released a
    "Creative Wireless Receiver". It connects via RCA so yeah not so Audio phile kind of
    connects. It emphasises iPod and to be honest they are very good value for money, the
    one thing Apple has got right marketwise. This receiver goes for $200.

    Something about the X-Fi 24-bit Crystalizer sounds to be that it colours in the music.

    Does that mean DACs pretty much function the same way ? Do they not take away
    the authenticity of the original music away ? It's implying one's equipment is just not
    good enough to play the source.

    To answer my own question, I took a look at DACs, there are various ways that they
    function, a form of DAC is the conversion of one sound format to another i.e. cd to mp3.
    The common and main solution is "oversampling", however this now opens a new debate
    because the newer technology "upsampling" is prefered by some, and not by others.
    The 840C is an upsampler.

    Typical me, every time I search for 1 answer, I find 2 more questions

    I don't know it looks a little flimsy, maybe I've been conditioned such that if it cannot
    overheat and is not too heavy to pick up then it cannot be top notch

    I will open a new thread regarding recommended music servers.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  14. #14
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    Precisely, personally speaking I luvtolisten to my music at home

    The playlist option is great, you can set up for example a 100 track one, loop it if you
    want, and never needing to get off the couch, unless it catches on fire. All the great
    work of relaxing you by listening to 2 tracks is undone every time you get off the couch.

    Just how much better is listening directly from the CD player ? Not much if you can
    retain lossless format of the same tracks on the server. That will requite 10x as much
    more space than mp3 or other compressed formats. If your hi fi is decent enough
    you can definately hear the difference between mp3 and CD (assuming the CD is a good
    recording).

    Who's to say I won't go with both options ? It's not a cost effective one. I have to
    at least audition the server and find out how it performs.

    I have way too many CDs to not consider a server.

    Yes, I agree, the play option is great. I have been playing around with ITunes. Like you, I also have a number of CD's (600-700). A number of them only have one or two songs I like. I have uploaded them all. At first I was using the Windows Vista Media Player, with lossless, but it was burning up my memory like crazy. That's why I switched to Itunes. But being new, I didn't realize Itunes had lossless too, until I got down to the last 50 CD's or so. I don't know why, but even with the lossless, Itunes doesn't seem to use near as much memory as the Window's program. Could it be all the art work is stored on their server?

    My system isn't great, but I'm happy with it. I have a HP intel dual core, 4G ram, 500G PC,
    A Sony DVD player (about 4 years old), I run them both thru a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic. My receiver is a NAD T754. My speakers are Athena F2's, (floor standing).Paradigm Titians and Wharfedale EVO 10's (on stands). I have a HSU STF-2 sub. The Athena's I use mostly for home theater, I have a small living room and they can be a bit overwhelming sometimes for music. I like both the Paradigms and Wharfedales,for music, they each have their own sound and it's nice to switch between the two, just to hear the same piece a little differently. But yes I can hear the difference between CD's and mp3, although on my system anyway, it's not like night and day. The DAC really helps to improve the sound, and neutralize the difference between the two,somewhat. I play CD's when that's all I'm doing is listening. But there are times when I'm willing to make a trade off, when I'm tired,and use my PC as a source. I can create a playlist on my PC in less than 5 minutes, that will play for hours. I do believe, (and this is just my opinion) the Audio Industry is heading that way. I live in Rochester NY, and I have noticed just the past year, the CD sections in stores are shrinking. The local Kmart near me,no longer has a CD section. I am hoping if it does go that way, maybe there will be more attention paid to fill that gap between CD's and mp3's.

  15. #15
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Excuse me for hopping on board with this, but I have seriously been considering a dedicated CD player. Recently an available CAL Tercet has been offered very reasonably; without disrupting this thread, can somebody tell me this is a poor decision? This is, of course, not an SACD; but I know CAL is solid and think it should be a nice compromise. Any thoughts? Thanks.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    Excuse me for hopping on board with this, but I have seriously been considering a dedicated CD player. Recently an available CAL Tercet has been offered very reasonably; without disrupting this thread, can somebody tell me this is a poor decision? This is, of course, not an SACD; but I know CAL is solid and think it should be a nice compromise. Any thoughts? Thanks.

    Why compromise when you don't have to? My CD player (a lovely Proceed Madrigal) recently died ... and I faced the same sorts of issues. I was thinking of a Mark Levinson 390S second-hand ... and, ultimately, what I came to realise ... is that I would end up spending a huge bucket of money and still be stuck with 44kHz 16 bit sound. All that money spent, and no substantial improvement.
    So, after lots of umming and ahhing ... I went for one of the brand new Marantz SACD players - the SA-8003 which gets a glowing review at:

    http://www.techradar.com/reviews/aud...-456022/review

    and has a USB input on the front (to make you look cool and uber). It's a great CD player ... and I have a huge CD collection ... but now that I have heard the SACD difference ... pfffffffffffft ......... I hardly buy CDs anymore - I only want new SACD discs - preferably DSD stuff or at least 96 kHz 24 bit recordings. On a good recording, the sound difference is astonishing: the clarity, the naturalness, the dynamic range. It has completely re-invigorated my interest in sound, in music, in recordings ... actually been very exciting. I haven't been so excited about music since the CD came out.

    My brother ... who has gone completely iTunes with fancy uber premium D/A converters etc (but alas his content is all standard CD redbook quality) ... popped in to listen to my SACD set-up. Dubious and sceptical, twas he. With my Marantz, you can force the machine to play the same disc from either the redbook CD layer, or from the SACD layer, and compare the sound. My brother takes the controls, has a listen ... a puzzled look crosses his face: Says he: "So much better . ..why would you listen to anything else?" Exact.

  17. #17
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    contrapunctus: Your note echoes many of the others I've read around these parts, extolling the virtues of SACD. I have little doubt that they are very nice, but I am not ready to make such an investment. I think a judiciously considered CD player should satisfy my needs until that time arrives. So, is this lunge worthwhile, or should I consider a DAC (Monarchy, e.g.)...?

  18. #18
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    I can safely say no player is created equal.

    I've auditioned some very nice CD/SACD in one players, but the better ones cost much
    more money, like the McIntosh ones. They really can put a CD/SACD player together.

    The NAD players are very good for the price range, you can understand why they
    have won many awards.

    The Cambridge Audio, I said this before the 740 and 840 are very good players. The 840
    as a 24/384Ktz DAC which you can connect up to 2 components either via RCA or
    Optical, which makes the overall unit most flexible. A majority of DACs don't go beyond
    20/192Ktz, and some articles suggest that some companies claim to upscale to 24 bit
    bit the circuitory does not actually support 24, and scales in reality to 20 bit.

    Ear of the beholder using one's owned CDs is the best judge of character I'd say, so far
    I've been very impressed.

    2k, 2.5k, or more seems to be heading towards the higher-end type of CD and/or SACD
    players. Unfortunately some of the flaws one finds is after owning them and playing after
    the player has been run-in.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    contrapunctus: Your note echoes many of the others I've read around these parts, extolling the virtues of SACD. I have little doubt that they are very nice, but I am not ready to make such an investment....
    The Marantz SA-8003 ... you can prob pick up a new one for around US$899 (RRP $999, I think). Very highly regarded in reviews ...

    http://www.techradar.com/reviews/aud...-456022/review

    http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...ntz_sa8003.htm

    That's a lot less than the kind of $$$$$$$$ some people are talking about for standard standalone CD players.
    And if you are willing to live without the USB port, I think the SA7003 is a lot less.

    Cheers

  20. #20
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Um, this place gives it a price of about $1600.00....

    http://www.qualifi.com.au/index.jsp?...product=146854

    Now, what was that again?

  21. #21
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    Auric, how much is the CAL? I heard one of their players once and aside an Arcam, the Arcam shamed it pretty bad. The CAL was a more expensive unit. I think CAL goes for a certain warm type of sound or "analog" where the Arcam was very detailed and dazzling. What is your budget? I'm still a dinosaur as well using a stand alone player. When using a SACD player such as the 8003 I'm sure SACD may sound better than the red book on the same player but I'd put my T+A red book against an 8003 SACD any day. Of course, if it was even close the 8003 is much cheaper. But then again SACD pales in it's catalog and I don't need another format to collect. I think a lot of the recent SACD hype is from those who would like to see it stay alive.

    I wish Ajani or Feanor would wander onto this thread they are very knowledgeable in the music server and Lossless. Theoretically, Lossless is just that, lossless, and shouldn't be any difference from that and CD because nothing is lost. MP3 is a different animal, it can be varying bit rates which heavily impact your sound quality and something Kex turned me onto is using the "variable bit rate" setting where the mp3 file more efficiently uses space. The non-variable may use a bit for silence or some other useless content where "variable" makes every bit count. The smaller mp3 files are so bad sounding sometimes a song will sound remixed or like some completely other version. Getting up to 320 kb sounds tolerable on a mp3 player and headphones but still pretty bad when hooked to a good stereo. MSSTL also uses a music server. He is big into putting his vinyl onto the server. From what many of these guys say the music server can be done and sound pretty good. Maybe a separate thread is a good idea with a title on "music server help".

    Ozzie, as you stated DAC's are taking on different forms due to the music server and mp3 craze but basically a DAC is just a digital to analog converter same as found in any CD player or HT receiver as far as that goes. It will not alter the music any more than a CD player would, it's just breaking down a player into separate components. The things I have found effect sound is the clocking and jitter control, the analog circuitry and the filtering. I believe the filtering is where the manufacturers are really putting their signature on the music.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    Um, this place gives it a price of about $1600.00....

    http://www.qualifi.com.au/index.jsp?...product=146854
    Ahh - the place you have quoted is a hi-fi store in Australia, in Australian dollars for the cheaper model SA7003. I don't think the SA7003 is actually available in the US ...

    The RRP US price for the new SA8003 is US$999:

    http://us.marantz.com/Products/2592.asp

    But, you can find it for less. I bought mine for about US$800 through ebay - brand new. I am guessing you will find a dealer in the US who will part with one for around US$899.
    Last edited by contrapunctus; 04-07-2009 at 10:55 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    When using a SACD player such as the 8003 I'm sure SACD may sound better than the red book on the same player but I'd put my T+A red book against an 8003 SACD any day. Of course, if it was even close the 8003 is much cheaper. But then again SACD pales in it's catalog.
    I saw the t+a machine when I was visiting the Adelphi Hi-fi shopping centre in Singapore a few months ago (that's a whole shopping mall filled entirely with hi-fi specialist dealers ... amazing fun for an afternoon). And, although I didn't listen to it, the t+a model I saw was certainly one of the sexiest looking machines I have ever seen. You know - the kind of thing that makes one subconsciously salivate. Very yum.

    > But then again SACD pales in it's catalog.

    Well, that's just not true. SACD nests CD: so you get to play everything that's on CD & and your existing collection, plus, on top, the almost 6000 titles now available in hi-rez on SACD. That's about 40 times more hi-rez content than available on all other hi-rez formats combined (downloads, DVD-A or w/e). And, if you look at what's happening with the kings of the audiophile market, standalone CD players are being dropped, and replaced with SACD units. Krell no longer make a standalone CD player - gone - moved to SACD. Mark Levinson no longer make a CD player - they've moved to SACD with the new 512. SACD may be small compared to the whole music market, but if you are talking hi-rez, it is the undisputed king.

  24. #24
    Forum Regular
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    Jan 2006
    Posts
    198
    Yes contra, must agree with you on that one. SACD definately is on top or at least near
    on top of the list.

    I have quite a few SACDs and they all outperform the best recorded CDs I've got.
    I would have easily over 1000 CDs. You can also get "Enhanced CD", DVD-Audio, etc,

    Since I have a Playstation-3, it can play SACDs, plays them excellent. Mind you, I do
    have good quality cables and speakers, so that obviously helps. So frustrating that
    nearly everything I own, I'd like on SACD, but that will never happen. With the increasingly
    number of more SACD players coming out, the SACD collection will increase.

    The most likely ones that will be next are old classics from the 70s, 80s, and 90's as
    opposed to new top40 ones (out of the non-classical genre).

    I am sold on that SACD classical ones are obviously worth the money but I do not
    wish to clog 90% of my SACD collection with that genre. As much of a classical fan
    I claim to be, I could not sit forever and listen to only that. I will be most selective on
    what I buy from this genre.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  25. #25
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    London, Ontario
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    8,127

    Lossless

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    ...
    I wish Ajani or Feanor would wander onto this thread they are very knowledgeable in the music server and Lossless. Theoretically, Lossless is just that, lossless, and shouldn't be any difference from that and CD because nothing is lost. MP3 is a different animal, it can be varying bit rates which heavily impact your sound quality and something Kex turned me onto is using the "variable bit rate" setting where the mp3 file more efficiently uses space. The non-variable may use a bit for silence or some other useless content where "variable" makes every bit count. The smaller mp3 files are so bad sounding sometimes a song will sound remixed or like some completely other version. Getting up to 320 kb sounds tolerable on a mp3 player and headphones but still pretty bad when hooked to a good stereo.
    ...
    Well, lossless is a lot like Zip with which there is no loss of information. Simplistically speaking, redundant 1 or 0 are eliminated in such away that they can be reconstucted for use. Lossless formats, such as FLAC or ALAC, are do the same except optimized for encoding and decoding music in particular.

    Use Foobar2000 and 'Kernel Streaming' on my WinXP computer I get bit-perfect playback. You might know that HDCD encoding employes the "least significant bit" to activate on HDCD decoders in CDPs or DACs so equiped. So my DAC's HDCD indicator lights when play back HDCD content encoded to FLAC or ALAC -- a reliable indicator that these formats can be encoded and decoded bit-perfectly.

    MP3 or non-loss formats such as M4A (Apple iTunes) or WMA (Windows Media Audio) are "lossy" formats. The analogy here is to .JPEG or similar picture formats that loose information during encoding. If you encode to these formats, e.g. 320 kbps, or "extreme" quality variable bit rate in MP3, you'll get music that sounds indistiguishable from CD on mediocre equipment most of the time. But what you won't be able to do is reconstruct the original CD content which you can, if you want to, say, to burn a CD.

    Bear in mind that encoding & decoding a lossless format like FLAC takes less processing power than a lossy format like MP3.

    Related to this, some purists claim that non-compress sound file formats such as WAV or AIFF formats sound better on playback than lossless. Maybe so, but not because they are getting the bits more perfectly, 'cause they aren't. It might have to do with less jitter -- a thing that depends on a lot of variables -- or it might be their imaginations.

    In any case, with the low cost of data storage today, any enthusiast/audiophile would be out of his/her mind to rip to anything but a lossless format.

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