-
Mutiny on the AR Board
Ok,
I think most of us are aware of the dire situation with this site. I mean, it's pretty pathetic. There are about 20-30 of us who really help keep this site alive and that is just flat out sad. We need to take charge here people! We need to organize and stand up for our rights. This site should be run by the people and we ARE the people, so let's try and get AR back to a healthy place again. I am open to suggestions for sure and I have plenty myself, but nothing really seems to get done around this place regardless.
Don't get me wrong, AR is a very cool place and could be even better. I owe a great deal of my knowledge to this site, but it's not THE site, it's the people of this site. We are the ones that make this place interesting and informative. We need to breathe some life back into this dormant site. It would be great to see this place thrive with tons of visitors where we can have very good discussions on music, movies and audio. Think about what it would be like to educate the public on what good sound is, or what good music is, or movies etc etc. I think it's time we take the reigns on this, but I cannot do this alone. It will take the combined efforts of all of us to help make this place what it could be.
So who is with me????
-
-
I'm all for coming up with ideas to help this place get more action. At any given point there are 4 to 10 times as many lurkers as members here. This is because if you do a search on Google for audio or video products, this site comes up more than most. The trick is for us to give these lurkers a reason to join into our conversations instead of just reading them. We have to make them feel welcome to join our family.
-
I think I've expressed my opinions about this site's *situation* more than once; it's for the most part fallen on deaf ears by the people who hold the reigns, so I've started splitting my online discussion time between here and a computer forum I recently discovered. PC gaming is another one of my passions.
I'll do whatever I can to help out PS, but don't be surprised if the efforts end up for not. FWIW, as much as I dislike Pix's style and the way he constantly insults the company I've long had the goal of being a part of, I've come to look at it as a means for me to promote my sense of humor. I think GM would agree.
I like spending time here and feel comfortable that for the most part others have grown to tolerate me (although I just recently got two red chicklets and a blue (?) one), but I'm just not that enthusiastic about this community anymore. Anyway, let's give it a shot!
-
good point there Mike, however: How are you going to do that? thing is that alot of people google their question, find the answer here and move on, they don't join in because they already have their answer. Alot of those lurkers don't know much about audio & video, maybe that's why they don't join in, because they wouldn't know what to tell.
-
I'm not sure yet, but that is the best way for us to get this place back in shape. Let's all work on ideas.
Here's my first one: On many other sites, I see chances to win free audio and video equipment. Registering is a requirement to win. Why not try that here. We could start off with something small like a calibration disk from Rives.
-
yes, but who will be paying for the prizes? you can't give away stuff you don't have...
but winning prizes is a good thing...
another idea: on AK for example, you get discount on a number of sites (audio repair shops, & things like partsexpress or so) maybe we could try that too, asking those sites to give discount TO MEMBERS ONLY, in return they get a link to their site on the forums...
-
Well....I guess it won't hurt me to try to help...but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
Ok,
I think most of us are aware of the dire situation with this site. I mean, it's pretty pathetic. There are about 20-30 of us who really help keep this site alive and that is just flat out sad. We need to take charge here people! We need to organize and stand up for our rights. This site should be run by the people and we ARE the people, so let's try and get AR back to a healthy place again. I am open to suggestions for sure and I have plenty myself, but nothing really seems to get done around this place regardless.
Don't get me wrong, AR is a very cool place and could be even better. I owe a great deal of my knowledge to this site, but it's not THE site, it's the people of this site. We are the ones that make this place interesting and informative. We need to breathe some life back into this dormant site. It would be great to see this place thrive with tons of visitors where we can have very good discussions on music, movies and audio. Think about what it would be like to educate the public on what good sound is, or what good music is, or movies etc etc. I think it's time we take the reigns on this, but I cannot do this alone. It will take the combined efforts of all of us to help make this place what it could be.
So who is with me????
...I'd like to hear some of your ideas. I'm involved in so many things that it's hard to concentrate on something that's not high on my priority list. I come to Rave Recordings for music and related info and to poke fun at my friends there. I try to go with the flow but can't commit to something that will take a lot of time because I don't have much of it to go around these days.
Swish
-
Hey!
Who let you outta your cage Philly boy??? :biggrin5:
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by basite
yes, but who will be paying for the prizes? you can't give away stuff you don't have...
I disagree. First prize could be all of Pixelthis's posts since he first started gracing us with his presence. Think about it... it's all here; just a matter of cut-n-pasting into one thread and then PM'ing it to the winner? Simple as that!
Sound good lemme know... :rolleyes:
-
I was asked to comment on this thread. I have been here for ages, been a moderator and the cause *and sometimes a solution* to some problems. The problem is that there are no special things about this site!! Absolutly none!! There is no real DIY section which has good contributions. This is not a dedicated site to either small boxes, large boxes or ribbons, planars etc.. There are too many sections and not enough acceptance of other peoples choices and heavy critque from some members.
Just rammbling here...but why do you wanna stay here?
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
The problem is that there are no special things about this site!! Absolutly none!!
I think I know what your saying, I just don't think your saying it right. I think your trying to say AR is trying to be a "jack of all trades but a master of none." i.e. some sites focus on vintage or DIY or ultra-hi-end or HT, where as AR seems to try to address all but doesn't do any particular one very well.
But there is something special about AR that no other site has: the review section and google prominence. AK, Audioholics, ect are all nice but don't have anything near the review section like AR. How many of us wound up hear because of that review section. I know I did. The question is how to leverage that.
Also, the site is to slow.
-
i;ve always liked it here. i generally stick with the fav films board, and occasionally venture out into the other forums. but i think, just thinking out loud, that its all about penetrating the market that this site would target. and if they want to get more specific, targeting specific boards.
to be selfish, having movietickets or fandango banners on the fav films board, or having bmg/columbia house banners on the rave recs board, etc.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
I think I know what your saying, I just don't think your saying it right. I think your trying to say AR is trying to be a "jack of all trades but a master of none." i.e. some sites focus on vintage or DIY or ultra-hi-end or HT, where as AR seems to try to address all but doesn't do any particular one very well.
Also, the site is to slow.
Yup, thats what i wanted to say. The review section, is not very helpfull to me. Basically, its as worthless as Audio Magzines because everyone has a different "goal" limit etc... For someone a Martin Logan Prodigy would be the holy grail, i personally consider it a start into High End.
I do love the photo galllery, but i erased them all after some jerk off kept on adding negative comments on my pictures out of jealousy.
-
Largely agree, but:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
I was asked to comment on this thread. I have been here for ages, been a moderator and the cause *and sometimes a solution* to some problems. The problem is that there are no special things about this site!! Absolutly none!! There is no real DIY section which has good contributions. This is not a dedicated site to either small boxes, large boxes or ribbons, planars etc.. There are too many sections and not enough acceptance of other peoples choices and heavy critque from some members.
Just rammbling here...but why do you wanna stay here?
Very true: not much special here. Really, I just like the people, (mostly), plus it's possible to get a word in edge-wise.
As for "not enough acceptance of other peoples choices and heavy critique from some members", maybe, but there are far, far worse examples. To wit, Audio Asylum. There any comment is met with crushing criticism, not to mention sarcasm, contempt for your knowledge/experience, and a cynical view of your motivation for posting in the first place. Also, it' tops in terms of real and quasi-technical types, elitists, snobs, and very wealthy audiophiles. Hmmmm ... !! maybe that's what's special about AA. But do we want to be like that?
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Very true: not much special here. Really, I just like the people, (mostly), plus it's possible to get a word in edge-wise.
As for "not enough acceptance of other peoples choices and heavy critique from some members", maybe, but there are far, far worse examples. To wit, Audio Asylum. There any comment is met with crushing criticism, not to mention sarcasm, contempt for your knowledge/experience, and a cynical view of your motivation for posting in the first place. Also, it' tops in terms of real and quasi-technical types, elitists, snobs, and very wealthy audiophiles. Hmmmm ... !! maybe that's what's special about AA. But do we want to be like that?
I agree, (especially about the AA cynicism). I visit some other forums regularly under different names - there's so much of the typical tired old audio debates that it becomes nauseating. How many debates about subjectivity/objectivity, cables, and (ugh) brand name wars can one take? Some sites really ruin this hobby for me. I hate every thread that errupts into a flame war about this brand vs that brand, this design vs that design, in response to a call for a recommendation. It happens here to some extent, but far less intense than some other sites. For too many audio forums, this hobby is as much about ego stroking as it is the enjoyment of music and the fun the hobby provides. Too many people find a way to throw an insult (either at an opposing point of view, a product, or person) into their thread responses. Why? What does this accomplish other than ego-masturbation?
I like ar.com more for the diversity, the odd-ball characters,the OT discussions, Fave-films, Rave Recs, and the odd engaging question/ discussion about audio. Ar.com is more like an airport than a destination...you can meet all sorts of people in the lounge in between flights if you chose to. If I want AA I'll go to AA. If I want audioholics, I go there - if I want a forum for DIY stuff, well I've got several I subsribe to as well. Some sites are so big that I never really recognize or "learn" about other members. Here I'm at least familiar with a few dozen personalities. I like the smaller scale of it too - I find some discussions help when 32 different people aren't all chimming in. Easier to follow. Seriously, I doubt any of us use ar.com as our only web forum for audio anything.
Specialty sites have their place - and I hope ar.com never becomes one, because then it just becomes "another one". The problem is like minds tend to flock together there, opinions converge, and they become boring and repetitive in many ways. I agree ar.com could be better. It used to be a lot better, and then it got censor crazy. But the censors have seemed to all but disappear...I would like to see more equipment review threads. More cool discussions about audio's current trends, all of the positives without the negatives. LJ recent exploits to find a new a/v receiver were rather interesting and helpful, for example...interesting thread. Nightflier's new speaker purchase was another.
I like the people here and more than anything, that's what keeps me hanging around. Whatever you guys (or whoever) decide to do with this site, I just hope it doesn't lose some of the good elements.
-
I must agree with Kex,
Myself, I came here about 1 year ago, and started asking questions, which were kindly answered, without any snobism. Half a year later, I also registered on AK, and I like it there too, but it's different, like a vacation home, you can be there, even for very very long periods, but there will be a time when you'll have to come back to your real home, for me that is AR.
I enjoy reading the threads here, and I like the people here too, but it would be nice if there were more of those people...
-
What about the ads?
It's been said before, but I have some critiques about the advertising here. I have contributed and written code on lots of sites and if there is one thing I've learned is that advertising needs to be better thought out. I have a colleague at Google and he tells me that they have spent years researching this very topic; we talk about this almost every time we get together. My initial observation is that the contract with your ad agency is not working for you. The contract should be a blueprint for a growing relationship - it should be reviewed often and there should be regular meetings to re-establish goals and pre-established targets. Here are some initial thoughts I have:
- The ads take far longer to load than the pages. This is because of too reasons: crappy code and animation. The crappy code is just the ad agency's way of cutting costs and could be negotiated on when a contract is signed. The animation-factor is based on an outdated idea that animations get more click-throughs - that's not the case anymore, according to numerous studies - it actually irritates people more and angers them against the company who's products are being advertised. It certainly no longer translates to increased sales.
- The top advertising banner is only part of the width of the screen on most monitor resolutions. 800 pixels-wide screens are a very small percentage of the viewing public, today. The spaces on either side of the banner are wasted space. It could be used for other ads, or at the very least a themed background image - hmmm, I don't know, how about a graphic that has something to do with audio....
- The 800-pixel wide top ad is so small that if a user actually had this resolution, the right side banner would not be visible. This should be a bargaining point during contract negotiations. Here's a thought (and it could become a "revolution" in the advertising industry LOL): cut the height of the top banner in half and use a full 1024-pixel width. BTW, the "ideal banner height" used now, is also based on outdated research.
- Ads about Las Vegas getaways, life insurance, and childish attempts to get me to notice a lower interest rate because of some dancing silhouette, are a turn off. I'm here for audio-video, and would much rather see ads about that. Sometimes it almost feels like this site is about something else and I forget which one of my discussion forums I am on.
- I've heard all the excuses: "it's expensive to find the right companies", or "this is all we're getting from this ad agency," and the ubiquitous: "there are not enough companies willing to advertise in your <blank> market sector." Well then threaten to fire this ad agency! They are not the only game in town. Bottom line is they are not hustling hard enough for you.
- Website managers often forget that it is in the interest of the ad agency to find better advertisers because they make far more money on click-throughs and resulting sales. This is a bargaining chip for negotiations. With that in mind, the ad agency should lower its fees for industry-specific advertisers because those will generate more click-throughs.
There are other ways to advertise: look for an ad agency that has a fresher, more modern approach on advertising. I don't mean to sound like a shill for Google, but their AdWords approach really does work in the long run. Ask potential ad agencies to make proposals that demonstrate more subtle and better targeted advertising. Ask for current, future, and potential client lists. Look for an agency that sees you as a partner that is looking to grow with you: they should demonstrate a vested interest in your success. They should also offer projections about this success, projections that need to be reiterated as performance targets in the written proposal, from which the final contract is generated.
Evaluate how well they understand this industry. Your current ad agency may rave about what they've done for Martha Stewart or Macy's, but what do they really know about audio and video? Do they understand the future of this industry: what product families are gaining prominence and what product families are fading? Do they have a basic understanding of associated industries and market sectors such as computers, electronics, automation, product distribution channels, heck, even an understanding of raw materials availability? Everybody knows that most of the stuff is made in the far east, but do they even know where most of the audio-video products are designed and developed? Do they have even an inkling of the traditions, reputations, and cultures associated with high-end gear (Opera, Gryphon, Harbeth, come to mind). I'm not saying that I expect them to know this stuff as well as the readers here, but they should have some idea about it - and some of these should definitely be part of their presentation.
These are just some first impressions, and it leads me to one of two conclusions: either your ad agency is not working hard enough for you, or it is horribly outdated and should be put out to pasture. Of course another possibility is that someone dropped the ball in finding this agency, but I'll leave that to another discussion. Who knows, maybe it's just simple economics and AR just isn't that important of a client. Frankly I don't know - but what I do know is that a loss in visitors hurts the site as much as the ad agency.
-
I agree with Feanor, Kex and who ever else made a "I like the people here" comment. I lurk a few sites but don't post there. I really don't care for all the traffic. Sometimes it does seem a little slow here, but it's never bothered me.
-
I've never noticed a speed issue, and it's safe to say I visit here a few times every day.
-
Philly boy? Moi?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
Who let you outta your cage Philly boy??? :biggrin5:
Well, I like most Philly sports and go to a fair number of shows there since they get lots of my favorite indie rock bands (The National, Beulah, etc.), but I live near Hershey, PA, so I resemble that comment.
G Swish
-
thank you all....
As I had hoped it would seem that the majority of us here all the feel the same way and in fact many of us possess the ability to help make that change, the only problem is that we need to get organized and make a stand. If we can organize our efforts we can hopefully see some changes around here. Obviously we need a different management structure to see the changes carried out, and the one way to get that done is to figure out HOW more of us can contribute to those causes AND get some better/different advertising to enable more/better funding.
Of course the function of a 'mutiny' is to say that WE are not going to take this current situation anymore unless (said things) change. What I am basically hearing is that we are not getting enough people to stick around long enough and that we don't offer enough for those that are currently here. Maybe a better structure of the forums as well as some new creative ways to keep those that are here around longer. It also seems that many of you have voiced your opinions and thoughts before and nothing has been changed, which puts up a few red flags to me. If that is the case, than drastic changes need to be made and that can only be done if we work together as one. What would happen to AR if the to 90% of the posts/hits and activity were to suddenly go away? Because about 90% of the activity derives from about 20-30 of us. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!
Let's keep this discussion rolling as we progress towards a hopefully better AR.
-
It's the people for me. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Just rammbling here...but why do you wanna stay here?
I started visiting Rave Recordings years ago...probably about 8 or 9 as best I can recall...and was hesitant to post right away because they seemed to have their own little clique going. Once I got up the nerve, I was met with a ton of 'welcome' responses and I've never looked back. My wife and I (she doesn't post) have actually met 5 RR friends in the real world...one in New Orleans (along with his wife), one in NYC, and three in Toronto (one brought her husband and another brought his wife). We had a great time with all of them and found they were all very genuine and exactly as I expected them to be, just a nice bunch of people who know how to have fun.
Along with the great music discoveries, I also get some of my best advice here as well; digital cameras, scanners, web cams, you name it, but I get it from the members, not the review section, although I have checked out some audio equipment. We have some of the smartest people on RR and I go to them before anywhere else, and my results are usually very satisfying. They're also very generous and share their music and their ideas freely.
What else can I say?
Swish
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish
I started visiting Rave Recordings years ago...probably about 8 or 9 as best I can recall...and was hesitant to post right away because they seemed to have their own little clique going. Once I got up the nerve, I was met with a ton of 'welcome' responses and I've never looked back. My wife and I (she doesn't post) have actually met 5 RR friends in the real world...one in New Orleans (along with his wife), one in NYC, and three in Toronto (one brought her husband and another brought his wife). We had a great time with all of them and found they were all very genuine and exactly as I expected them to be, just a nice bunch of people who know how to have fun.
Along with the great music discoveries, I also get some of my best advice here as well; digital cameras, scanners, web cams, you name it, but I get it from the members, not the review section, although I have checked out some audio equipment. We have some of the smartest people on RR and I go to them before anywhere else, and my results are usually very satisfying. They're also very generous and share their music and their ideas freely.
What else can I say?
Swish
Yes, and it would be great if we can get more people to have a similar experience as yours and I feel the same. This place has been very beneficial for me, but I also hope that I can make it beneficial for others. Some people come here to GET something, while others like to GIVE out something....ideally we want the best of both. It's great to be able to give advice and discussion, but also great to get it in return, which many of us have.
How can we keep people here? How can we keep those that just come and make ONE post about how to help them set up their stuff and then the leave like a stranger in the night. If we can keep more people around here and ramp up the discussions as well as add some diversity and creativity than this place could really be awesome. I would like to see more activity in the PHOTO GALLERY as well.
I am prepared to do whatever I can to help this site out. I am on this site for a large majority of my day and therefore I feel that I can contribute in some way, shape or form. I am willing to do what I can, but I need to figure out the action steps needed to make that happen.
-
I've yet to really figure out if I have interests that mesh with others around here. I've tried to participate in (and even started) a few threads but apparently my take on things is not aligned with any one else's head. I've got about 38 years in this hobby, a basement full of audio test equipment from my more active building days, time on the professional side (sound engineer and stereo store manager years ago), a healthy growing and varied music collection (over 18,000 tunes), a current system and good experience in the computer side of music and just don't see much that grabs my attention. And, what I have to offer doesn't seem to grab anyone else's.
As someone else indicated, there does seem to be a lack of focus here. A bit of stereo, a dose of HT, some music, a hint of DIY and so on, but just no strong current that draws people in and lets them know they're in the right place.
There are a lot of great people here (and it is nice to be away from some of the nut-case name calling one sees elsewhere) but in summary, here's my two cents - the place needs a stronger identity.
-
I don't know...
I've always liked this site a little better than most audio sites because the people, for the most part anyway, seem to be a little more level-headed and open minded... Intelligent people who can think for themselves... Speak based on experience... not what they read on the internet yesterday... One site in particular makes me nuts because once an idea becomes accepted as being the "concensus"... (of a bunch of 13-year olds no doubt) no matter how completely wrong it is... You can't say anything that doesn't completely agree without being attacked en masse by everyone. So... A busy board overpopulated by a pack of wild dogs isn't always a good thing....
I think one of the biggest problems is that there are a few other sources for user reviews now. That was always the backbone of Audio REVIEW. and... as much as I hate to say it... their pages load quicker and the reviews are easier to search for, find and navigate.
I think people are finding consumer reviews a little less helpful too. People know now that a person will always be excited about a new purchase and it takes time to find the faults in things... User reviews are great though for spotting products likely to arrive defective, etc...
Branching out in a new direction may help... Offering some guides, etc...
IMHO... Getting the pages to load a little quicker would be job #1. This has DEFINITELY decreased my number of visits to the site lately.
I hope Audio Review is around a good long time. I've had a great time and learned much here over the years. Met some great people... Wish them much good luck and success!!
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish
Well, I like most Philly sports and go to a fair number of shows there since they get lots of my favorite indie rock bands (The National, Beulah, etc.), but I live near Hershey, PA, so I resemble that comment.
G Swish
Didn't know you were that far west of West Philly Swish.
You know, that experience you had with the lightning strike and subsquent equipment replacement story you talked about in RR was, as far as I know in my short time here a unique experience and, IMO would have been a good conversation had you posted it in a more relevant forum. I realize that's just a small observation in the big scheme of things here but nevertheless it seems to me that it would've stirred more participation.
If you ask me, I'd say this is a PS power grab attempt. He wants to get his hands on that member delete switch. :ihih:
-
The indentity problem, which I agree is the main concern, can be found in the name: AudioREVIEW. Royphil hit the nail on the head, this site is based on user reviews. It would be interesting to see how many members found the forums from the review section, because my guess is the majority of you nutballs did exactly that.
The key to increasing forum traffic is to increase traffic to the review section, an area that needs to be completely revamped. If I'm looking for electronics reviews, I'll check CNET, not AR. That needs to change. There were efforts to do "professional" reviews, but that died after only a few. There were also efforts to give away prizes, but I have no idea what happened there. My opinion is that we don't need to bribe people to come here. All you need to do is give them a good reason, that being the quest for knowledge.
The AR home page needs a complete makeover. It needs to be more graphic, offer more pics, easier accessibility to ratings, and most importantly more comparisons. When someone is shopping for an AVR, they want to know about a particular unit and how it compares to others in its price class. If they want user opinions, there should be "one click" link that dumps them into the correct forum. AR is slow, not real user friendly, and as attractive as a WW2 frigate. (Who thought of grey anyway?!?)
There is a very good crew of people here, but the reality is we've lost far too many of the "characters" that made AR an entertaining place. Were there fights? Oh, yeah. Were they entertaining? Unquestionably. In an effort to quell the flames, management turned the site into a big bowl of vanilla ice cream. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you add some chocolate topping or cherries every once in a while to break up the mundanity. I'm not saying it should be the pissing match it was before (Mtrycrafts was particularly infuriating), but once the revamped homepage and reviews sections starts feeding new life into the forums, how 'bout we loosen the reigns and take a "wait and see" approach?
Like most, I still consider AR as my "audio home" of sorts. I'll be the first to acknowledge that I don't post nearly as much as before. Whereas before I'd stop by a few times a day, now I'll take a peek maybe once a week at best. Why? Less time is at the top of the list. Second would be a bit of waning interest. Many of my favorite places to audition gear have either gone HT or out of business all together. It's just not as easy to hear new and interesting gear as it once was and I don't believe in rendering an opinion on stuff I have no experience with.
-
Well, when ya put it like that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
The indentity problem, which I agree is the main concern, can be found in the name: AudioREVIEW. Royphil hit the nail on the head, this site is based on user reviews. It would be interesting to see how many members found the forums from the review section, because my guess is the majority of you nutballs did exactly that.
The key to increasing forum traffic is to increase traffic to the review section, an area that needs to be completely revamped. If I'm looking for electronics reviews, I'll check CNET, not AR. That needs to change. There were efforts to do "professional" reviews, but that died after only a few. There were also efforts to give away prizes, but I have no idea what happened there. My opinion is that we don't need to bribe people to come here. All you need to do is give them a good reason, that being the quest for knowledge.
The AR home page needs a complete makeover. It needs to be more graphic, offer more pics, easier accessibility to ratings, and most importantly more comparisons. When someone is shopping for an AVR, they want to know about a particular unit and how it compares to others in its price class. If they want user opinions, there should be "one click" link that dumps them into the correct forum. AR is slow, not real user friendly, and as attractive as a WW2 frigate. (Who thought of grey anyway?!?)
There is a very good crew of people here, but the reality is we've lost far too many of the "characters" that made AR an entertaining place. Were there fights? Oh, yeah. Were they entertaining? Unquestionably. In an effort to quell the flames, management turned the site into a big bowl of vanilla ice cream. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you add some chocolate topping or cherries every once in a while to break up the mundanity. I'm not saying it should be the pissing match it was before (Mtrycrafts was particularly infuriating), but once the revamped homepage and reviews sections starts feeding new life into the forums, how 'bout we loosen the reigns and take a "wait and see" approach?
Like most, I still consider AR as my "audio home" of sorts. I'll be the first to acknowledge that I don't post nearly as much as before. Whereas before I'd stop by a few times a day, now I'll take a peek maybe once a week at best. Why? Less time is at the top of the list. Second would be a bit of waning interest. Many of my favorite places to audition gear have either gone HT or out of business all together. It's just not as easy to hear new and interesting gear as it once was and I don't believe in rendering an opinion on stuff I have no experience with.
Yeah!
More product reviews, and comparisons. Less arguments for the sake of arguing!!!
Sad, I read my own post, and I realize, I hang out here more for the personalities than anything audio now.
Is this just going to be a ***** thread, or is there anything we can do about it?
Unless someone's got a phone number to someone in a position of authority, I'm sceptical we'll get anywhere.
Start the rally cry!!!!
WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QU--uhh-quite interested in improvement!!!
-
IIRC, this site is owned by a marketing group right? Good like trying to get them to change it's structure/appearance IMO.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
The indentity problem, which I agree is the main concern, can be found in the name: AudioREVIEW. Royphil hit the nail on the head, this site is based on user reviews. It would be interesting to see how many members found the forums from the review section, because my guess is the majority of you nutballs did exactly that.
Nutballs huh? This coming from the guy who drives around in a broken BMW with a broken speedo. :cornut:
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
If you ask me, I'd say this is a PS power grab attempt. He wants to get his hands on that member delete switch. :ihih:
Guilty as charged.....hey, wouldn't it be better to have someone at least throwing SOME switches, rather than just letting things slide and slide and slide. No offense to the Mods, but this place needs a makeover.
-
I think this site very well might have seen one "purge" too many to be the kind of community that some of us would like. Indeed a lot of bad apples got tossed out, but a lot of other very knowledgeable and active regulars went out the door along with them. I'll admit that some of the color on this site has faded in the last couple of years.
Count me as one of those posters who has stuck around here because I just like hanging out with a lot of the regulars. I sporadically post on the AVS Forum, but that site gets so swamped with traffic that it's impossible to maintain any semblance of a coherent conversation unless you're glued to that site for hours at a time. That place works more like a chat room than a forum, and I just don't have time for it. I'll also occasionally post on the Home Theater Shack, but that site has more industry professionals administering the discussions and seems more seriously focused on technical topics. Great site if you want solid topical discussions, but my endurance for purely technical topics has waned quite a bit lately given that I'm not really in an upgrading mode right now.
I know that the site administrators on AR have trial ballooned several different ideas to try and revamp the site. Things like posting "official" equipment and disc reviews, FAQs/how-to guides, etc. But, there's only so much you can do when 1) the majority of the regulars that would be recruited to write up the content have jobs and other commitments (and AR's pool of regulars is not very large to begin with); and 2) AR's staff is not especially large and is primarily focused on keeping the site up and running, and making sure that enough ads sell to keep the lights on and the servers churning. No one at AR is dedicated squarely on editorial content and/or community.
Even if we collectively agree on a plan to improve AR, I'm just not sure that the site has the resources to implement it. Remember that parent company ConsumerReview has already gone through one bankruptcy reorganization. And compared to other sites, AR has considerably less participation from the site administrators/owners who often set the tone for how the discussions go (for better or worse).
As it stands, this site is driven and defined by the participants (again, for better or worse). The quality of the discussions depend on participation, and if a site cannot attract new blood to take up the slack left when regular participants leave or pull back, then the community as a whole stagnates. I think that's the primary issue with this site right now. My understanding is that AR is one of the most heavily trafficked audio/home theater sites on the web, and there probably are ways of tweaking the site to better encourage participation, like for example posting actual news articles and industry news releases to spur discussions (this is how sites like Ecoustics, Audioholics, AudioRevolution, and High Def Digest direct traffic to their forums -- put the news article/synopsis on the home page, and provide a comments link).
I've stuck with this site since 2001, and while I don't plan on leaving anytime soon, I also don't see myself participating with nearly the same frequency as in years past. (Life changes have a way of reprioritizing my hobbies and how I spend my time.)
-
Interesting...
This thread thus far has already received a great deal of responses and it's less than 24 hours at this point, which tells me that it's not a matter of people NOT wanting to join in with the discussion of AR so much, but rather having something worthwhile to talk about. Perhaps for some of us we are bored with the lack of depth most of these discussions entail or the repetitive nature of many of the posts, such as "Which Sub Should I Buy?" After being around this place for nearly 2 years and a member for about 1.5 years I must say that I too mostly come back for the people and to get some ideas from everyone. Plus, this is my source of news when it comes to things like Blu-ray. I also enjoy the film discussions from time to time and thanks to Smokey ...the polls.
However, I didn't 'JOIN' the site until I felt like I could benefit from the site and that was being able to post pictures of my setup. Once I did that I was hooked on the photo gallery section and actually spent quite a long time in there before I even ventured to the forum section. Then it took another few months before I began being a more regular person there, of course in the early days I had a few tiffs here and there with a few folks (like Flo) who I have since come to understand and appreciate a bit more. So this might be a good time to ask these questions....
1. What brought you to AR in the first place?
2. What made you want to stay around or contribute to AR?
3. Do you come here just to keep up with the conversations or do you primarily come here when you actually have something to talk about?
4. What would be ONE thing that you could change in order to make you want to stay here longer or contribute more often?
-
Who actually does run this board? I mean some one must receive the checks and post the advertisements. The site is extremely slow changing pages and is not user friendly. My goodness the last time I tried to post a review it took me forever. Between trying to figure out what to do and where to go, and then the length of time to go from one thing to another. Somebody gave us a fix to do on our computer, turning off ActivX which helped a lot. But newbies may not know to do that. Posting Classifieds is difficult as well. I think a strong classified area would be a good attraction but that would require some policing of scammers. I don't like the links to the AR content are so small compared to all the other print and advertising on the first page. I saved the discussion page to my favorites so I never have to go to the front page. If you want users, AR has to be user friendly.
The reviews brought me here years ago when I started upgrading. I actually have won a prize here for posting reviews. I won a DVD player and some movies. It's the people who keep me here and my love to talk about the hobby. When AR changed to the new thread structure I was going to leave. My computer skills are limited and I guess I don't take to change well. I owe a debt of gratitude to Topspeed for encouraging me to stay. So I tried the new threads and eventually got used to it. So you have him to blame for having to put up with me.
It's funny that it was mentioned AR needs a face lift when Eric just reworked it not too long ago. I wish I could find the thread where Eric started it about the new changes and there was a big bunch of members brown nosing how good it looked yatta yatta. I think this was around the same time he was saying he was looking for reviewers, so some couldn't wait to do some stroking.
It's funny our membership is down because after we lost a few members the site was a lot more pleasant to participate in. We can disagree without getting into who can hit the lowest below the belt and personal attacks. It's nice to be able to exchange ideas in a quasi orderly manner. Many here of a great sense of humor and willingness to help. I think more of the forums need to mirror the atmosphere of the Rave Recordings forum. But it's the people there who make it what it is.
We all need to bring what we learn and run across on the web back to AR to start new threads with it. News bits and new products etc. Let's not be shy. You never know what idea will generate a discussion and what will flop, just throw it against the wall to see what sticks. You never know who might be weighting for a nuclear amp.
It takes a while to get the feel for the board and how to take what people say, let's be tolerant with newer posters and give them the chance to grow.
With all the criticisms I like AR and participating in the discussions and when I'm able doing a review. Actually this is the only board I participate in. I'd like to say it's because I love you guys but.... really, do you know how long it would take me to learn a new board :)
-
It sounds like we need some more ways to generate excitement into coming here, AND most importantly a way to keep people here who truly wish to contribute to the site, not just trolls. I think that this is a fairly easy site to use for the most part, especially in comparison to other sites that are just terrible with their formatting and such.
We have talented people here, I know Flo does some web work and I think Nightflier talked about programming at one point. It would be cool if we could collaborate some awesome ideas together, I think what would really be cool is a chat room for us to all talk in together instead of in this format since sometimes we are nearly chatting anyway with the rapid responses.
-
Here's a couple more ideas that I think will improve the quality of the site:
- Add more simple to answer "short answer", "yes/no", and "1-5 ratings" questions for people writing reviews. For those of us who have limited time to write these, it would be relatively easy to just click on a few items and write a short blurb, then to have to write a full dissertation on a particular component.
- While I agree that the galleries really add a lot, here's another section that I think people would appreciate: a documentation section, with the option of posting pics. I can't tell you many times I've pulled my hair out because a particular company won't post documentation or pics on their products, especially the older stuff. PS Audio obviously comes to mind, here. And some manufacturers like Onkyo, actually expect people to pay for older gear documentation! Now I know there are sites out there that sell manuals, but I wouldn't mind seeing a scanned brochure, promotional ad, a PDF file or even a pic of the back side of some of that older gear. For those of us in the market for second-hand components, this would be an invaluable resource, especially if it was linked to the reviews.
- Some people have mentioned graphics as a way to jazz things up, well from a programming perspective, I can think of one way to make this more interesting: make them dynamic. For example, instead of listing a poster's location with text, show a little map of the world with a pin of where they're posting from. Instead of just listing the number of posts, how about a tiny bar graph comparing this poster's total with 2-3 regulars. I also think the member information pages could be more dynamic: for example including a little thermometer graphic showing how many posts this member posted that day, and how that compares to other "hot" days. How about a graphical word count? After all, it's easy to boost one's numbers with one-line posts, but there's also something to be said for those who write well thought-out explanations and discussions.
- And while this will have to be thought out a little, I would welcome comments and ideas from the manufacturers, designers, and engineers who build the equipment. I always like to read what the the manufacturer have to say about the reviews in the back of Stereophile magazine. It's this kind of back-and-forth that engenders improvements. Now I know we don't want this site to be influenced by the manufacturers, but maybe they could have their own separate section where they could respond to some of the comments made on these boards. I often wonder if they are reading these posts and I must admit, there are times that I really wish they did.
- Someone already mentioned this, but how about a "new product announcement section" on this website? This could probably be generated automatically w/o too much programmer interaction if a standard submission format is created.
- Finally, I've noticed that these forums are heavily US-focussed. Maybe we could look for ways to get more people from across the pond and elsewhere to participate? While we're at it, how about finding ways to include women into these discussions, too? Don't they have sharper hearing? And jokes about WAFs notwithstanding, maybe women have a thing or two to to teach us about design?
Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts this evening. It's after 11pm here and I'm still toiling away at work (server crash). I really do need to get home....
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
Here's a couple more ideas that I think will improve the quality of the site:
- Add more simple to answer "short answer", "yes/no", and "1-5 ratings" questions for people writing reviews. For those of us who have limited time to write these, it would be relatively easy to just click on a few items and write a short blurb, then to have to write a full dissertation on a particular component.
- While I agree that the galleries really add a lot, here's another section that I think people would appreciate: a documentation section, with the option of posting pics. I can't tell you many times I've pulled my hair out because a particular company won't post documentation or pics on their products, especially the older stuff. PS Audio obviously comes to mind, here. And some manufacturers like Onkyo, actually expect people to pay for older gear documentation! Now I know there are sites out there that sell manuals, but I wouldn't mind seeing a scanned brochure, promotional ad, a PDF file or even a pic of the back side of some of that older gear. For those of us in the market for second-hand components, this would be an invaluable resource, especially if it was linked to the reviews.
- Some people have mentioned graphics as a way to jazz things up, well from a programming perspective, I can think of one way to make this more interesting: make them dynamic. For example, instead of listing a poster's location with text, show a little map of the world with a pin of where they're posting from. Instead of just listing the number of posts, how about a tiny bar graph comparing this poster's total with 2-3 regulars. I also think the member information pages could be more dynamic: for example including a little thermometer graphic showing how many posts this member posted that day, and how that compares to other "hot" days. How about a graphical word count? After all, it's easy to boost one's numbers with one-line posts, but there's also something to be said for those who write well thought-out explanations and discussions.
- And while this will have to be thought out a little, I would welcome comments and ideas from the manufacturers, designers, and engineers who build the equipment. I always like to read what the the manufacturer have to say about the reviews in the back of Stereophile magazine. It's this kind of back-and-forth that engenders improvements. Now I know we don't want this site to be influenced by the manufacturers, but maybe they could have their own separate section where they could respond to some of the comments made on these boards. I often wonder if they are reading these posts and I must admit, there are times that I really wish they did.
- Someone already mentioned this, but how about a "new product announcement section" on this website? This could probably be generated automatically w/o too much programmer interaction if a standard submission format is created.
- Finally, I've noticed that these forums are heavily US-focussed. Maybe we could look for ways to get more people from across the pond and elsewhere to participate? While we're at it, how about finding ways to include women into these discussions, too? Don't they have sharper hearing? And jokes about WAFs notwithstanding, maybe women have a thing or two to to teach us about design?
Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts this evening. It's after 11pm here and I'm still toiling away at work (server crash). I really do need to get home....
Those are some really fun and great ideas. I like the idea of making the site a bit more dynamic with some of the current things going on, just ramp them up a bit. It's always great to make this place a bit more diverse and interactive.
I think that AR in it's current form has a lot going for it, but it just needs to be streamlined a bit more and much more functional. Plus, fun. I think that we could incorporate some of those ideas very easily and really help ramp up the overall involvement of this place. Maybe if we get some more females around here we could dress this place up a bit from the cold, sterile, blue and gray too! lol.
-
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlsstl
I've yet to really figure out if I have interests that mesh with others around here. I've tried to participate in (and even started) a few threads but apparently my take on things is not aligned with any one else's head. I've got about 38 years in this hobby, a basement full of audio test equipment from my more active building days, time on the professional side (sound engineer and stereo store manager years ago), a healthy growing and varied music collection (over 18,000 tunes), a current system and good experience in the computer side of music and just don't see much that grabs my attention. And, what I have to offer doesn't seem to grab anyone else's.
As someone else indicated, there does seem to be a lack of focus here. A bit of stereo, a dose of HT, some music, a hint of DIY and so on, but just no strong current that draws people in and lets them know they're in the right place.
There are a lot of great people here (and it is nice to be away from some of the nut-case name calling one sees elsewhere) but in summary, here's my two cents - the place needs a stronger identity.
Another one who knows a little too much for this site.
I have been doing this for four decades, but one poster said I needed more "experience"
with turntables, when the only choice when I started WAS a turntable!
I am a bit rusty on the actual electronics side but am still quite knowledgable,
but a lot of stuff is anti-intuitive, try to post it and you get attacked as a "know-nothing".
I was even attacked for posting info on Yamahas sound bar, something that has been
on the market for a year, instead of accusing me of making things up all the attacker had to do was go to Yamahas site and read up on this thing!
And Mr peabody is quite polite but I still think hes' a bit leery of what I have posted about a sets resolution.
And the predictions I have made, which I beleive are sound, have been jeered, I have been
accused of stating these as fact, but they are just predictions!
But they have served the purpose of stirring things up a bit.
And peruvian schizoid, you wanna "improve" this site? Well, no more pictures of your ugly
mug, howzabout?
I mean, GOD, I just ate!:(
|