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  1. #1
    AUTOBOT BRANDONH's Avatar
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    Question Musical Fidelity X-10 V3 MU-VISTA TUBE BUFFER

    Has anyone used this unit?
    What do or did you you think about it?
    I am thinking of adding it between the preamp and amp.

    MUSICAL FIDELITY X-10 V3 MU-VISTA TUBE BUFFER

    A legend returns! Musical Fidelity sold almost 50,000 of their original X-10 Tube Buffer Stage and has finally brought it back to life. The new X-10v3 is based on the Musical Fidelity exclusive Mu-Vista (kW) tubes and is guaranteed to add the magic of tubes to any system without adding any significant noise or distortion. The new Mu-Vista tube is Musical Fidelityís highest performance tube to date. Itís more linear and quieter, with better performance capabilities than either their highly regarded Nu-Vista or Tri-Vista tubes. The X-10v3 is a tube output stage that can be added to any system; perfect behind any digital player, in a tape monitor loop or between your preamp and amp. Turn your CD or any other affordable digital player into the tube-hybrid player of your dreams. Add it between your amp and preamp or into a processor or tape loop and hear every single source component come to life in a spectacular way. Once in place, you will hear an added level of richness, warmth and musicality previously attainable only with a tremendous investment in world-class tube gear. The $399 Musical Fidelity X-10v3 Tube Buffer Stage will be a very limited manufacturing run, so audition one in your system before they are history!

    About the Mu-Vista tube:

    Musical Fidelity's latest discovery, the 6112, is an ultra high performance twin triode that we call the mu-Vista. Originally, it was used by the US military for crucial low noise guidance and other missile functions. It is incredibly rugged and immune from microphony and other extraneous effects. Also, and we hope this attribute is never needed; it's immune from electro-magnetic pulse (EMP) which occurs when a nuclear bomb explodes! As you would expect, the mu-Vista is super tough, super quiet, ultra reliable, incredibly linear and absolutely predictable.

    Musical Fidelity has not had a single Tri-Vistor 5703 tube fail anywhere in the world in any of their Tri-Vista products. Our tests show that the mu-Vista has similar levels of reliability, and why not? The tubes have been purchased direct from the US military and are genuine milspec, mil usage parts.

    As far as we know, they have bought the vast majority of the world's stock of the amazing mu-Vista. It will form the basis of a number of limited edition products.

    Recommended Usage:

    * On the output of a CD player.
    * In the tape loop of an integrated amplifier.
    * Between a pre and power amp.
    * From the front two channels of your HT processor or receiver

    Features & Benefits

    * High input impedance - Does not offer any loading to the source CD player and as a result it gives its best possible performance.
    * Low output impedance - Drives any amplifier easily and ensures virtually perfect linearity.
    * Uses exclusive mu-vista (6112) mil-spec mil-usage tube- Excellent technical performance, incredible longevity - great sound.
    * Low noise, low distortion, huge overload margin and wide bandwidth - Extremely clean sound with huge dynamic range.
    * Limited edition - Not many other people will have one of these babies.

    NOTE: The X-10v3 does not have a power switch on it and we have received numerous questions about whether or not to leave the X-10v3 powered on all the time. We recommend giving the X-10 at least a full minute to warm-up before turning on your amplifier and then leaving the X-10v3 on all the time. According to the X-10v3 owner's manual "This product has been designed so that it may be left on indefinitely, it may become warm to the touch - this is normal."

    Specifications

    * Input impedance: 470K Ohms
    * Output impedance: < 33 Ohms
    * Total harmonic distortion: < 0.004% 10Hz to 20kHz
    * Frequency response: 20Hz to 65kHz +0, - 0.5dB
    * Crosstalk: Better than 80dB, 20Hz to 20kHz
    * Signal / noise ratio (reference full output): Better than 93dB unweighted
    * Better than 106dB 'A'-weighted
    * Valve (tube) type: 6112 twin triode (two)
    * Power requirement: 12 - 0 - 12 Volts AC 500mA (via mains adaptor supplied)
    * Dimensions (approximate): 180mm (7.1 inches) wide
    88.2mm (3.5 inches) high including feet
    218mm (8.6 inches) deep including rear terminals
    * Weight: Unit, net 2.5kg (5 lbs 8oz) un-boxed, Adaptor, net 0.45kg (1 lb)
    Total packed 3.1kg (6lbs 13oz)
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  2. #2
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    Musical Fidelity X-10 V3

    [QUOTE=BRANDONH]Has anyone used this unit?

    I currently have one installed.

    What do or did you you think about it?

    I'm extremely pleased, works as advertised. I think that the effect may be especially good in my system, since I have a passive preamp: buffering is a good thing.


    I am thinking of adding it between the preamp and amp.

    Mine is between the preamp & active crossover, so much the same thing.

  3. #3
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    There may be problems down the road with 6112 availability. These tubes haven't been in production for at least two decades and the very limited use in the civilian market may not bode well for the Russians or Chinese to bother with. Call me a cynic, but my take is Musical Fidelity saw a golden opportunity to snap up the remaining stock of 5,000 odd tubes from the U.S. military at bargain basement pricing, did so, and designed a circuit around them to market the exact same number of finished units as the number of tubes they have on hand. Nice windfall profit for Musical Fidelity for the minimal materials outlay incurred. That military spec tubes are very reliable is unquestioned. The bad news is the fact that filaments eventually fail and tubes go gassy. The good news is that most buyers will have likely tired of these devices' euphonic coloration* long before the tubes tank, which leaves them an outlet to recoup their loss, er, investment on eBay...

    *Distortion is distortion regardless what distorting euphemism is substituted.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray H
    There may be problems down the road with 6112 availability. These tubes haven't been in production for at least two decades and the very limited use in the civilian market may not bode well for the Russians or Chinese to bother with. Call me a cynic, but my take is Musical Fidelity saw a golden opportunity to snap up the remaining stock of 5,000 odd tubes from the U.S. military at bargain basement pricing, did so, and designed a circuit around them to market the exact same number of finished units as the number of tubes they have on hand. Nice windfall profit for Musical Fidelity for the minimal materials outlay incurred. That military spec tubes are very reliable is unquestioned. The bad news is the fact that filaments eventually fail and tubes go gassy. The good news is that most buyers will have likely tired of these devices' euphonic coloration* long before the tubes tank, which leaves them an outlet to recoup their loss, er, investment on eBay...

    *Distortion is distortion regardless what distorting euphemism is substituted.
    What Ray said ... I concur 328.7946%

    IMO, this is a product that can best be described as a solution valiantly searching for a problem to "solve" - where such a problem simply does not exist in the first place! I would only add that I think MusicalFidelity should be ashamed of themselves for what I consider a business decision based upon very questionable ethics! If after what Ray and I have both had to say on the subject, you still want to give MusicalFidelity a goodly chunk of your hard-earned, that's your business. I personally, wouldn't give 'em a plug nickel of mine for one of these things.
    woodman

    I plan to live forever ..... so far, so good!
    Steven Wright

  5. #5
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Imnsho,

    This device does for audio what rubbing a little vaseline on a camera lens does for photography. It most certainly doesn't clear anything up but some people like the effect

  6. #6
    AUTOBOT BRANDONH's Avatar
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    Thank You All

    Thanks everyone for your input.

  7. #7
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    Speaking from experience or baseless pontification?

    I wonder if anyone _else_ among those on this thread have actuallt heard (let alone _listened to_ one of these devices?

  8. #8
    AUTOBOT BRANDONH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezside
    I wonder if anyone _else_ among those on this thread have actuallt heard (let alone _listened to_ one of these devices?
    Ezside,
    I decided to take the plunge and ordered one today from Music Direct.
    They have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee so I figure what the heck, my curiosity has gotten the best of me.
    I read in Audio Asylum that it took some time to break-in.
    I'll do a review after the break-in period.
    Although I expect to be criticized.
    I'll do my best to discribe the experience as an... "In My Opinion review ".
    my system
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    OC9/MLII
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  9. #9
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRANDONH
    ...

    MUSICAL FIDELITY X-10 V3 MU-VISTA TUBE BUFFER...

    Features & Benefits

    * High input impedance - Does not offer any loading to the source CD player and as a result it gives its best possible performance.

    ...
    It sounds like the only actual benefit of the unit (versus feature), is impedance matching between CDP and amp. How does this help and is it always useful or does it pertain to particular amps?

  10. #10
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Who you be...

    ...accusin' of pontification?

    Ray H and woodman brought up valid points re: future parts availability for what can only be termed a dead technology...NOS is at best a crapshoot...Russian and Chinese valves have their own problems and unless you can round up fifty or so of your "audiophile" buddies and get Western Electric to do a custom run, whatcha' gonna' do when things get microphonic?

    And I don't know about you but, the only thing I want to "listen to" is the music...the gear should be transparent...if there is any "tube effect" then markw's remarks are also valid...

    jimHJJ(...dominus vobiscum...)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezside
    I wonder if anyone _else_ among those on this thread have actuallt heard (let alone _listened to_ one of these devices?
    The tube availability is a real issue you need to consider, as the other posters mentioned.

    I spent some time with the original X-10D which as I recall used a single 6922 tube. It made my system sound syrupy and boring by rounding off the sharpness of the detail and stifling dynamics. It was a coloration to be sure but not, in poster Ray H's term, a euphonic one! I have not, however, listened to the new version. Hopefully, BrandonH will give us the lowdown on the latest one.

  12. #12
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    I have used it about a month...didn't notice a break-in period, but I've been auditioning new speakers with it inline and out, so maybe that's why...It has added a bit of warmth to my SS system-not necessarily a bad thing, just different.

  13. #13
    AUTOBOT BRANDONH's Avatar
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    Musical Fidelity X-10 V3 MU-VISTA TUBE BUFFER REVIEW

    Sorry it took me so long to get this done but the unit was on backorder and took a couple of weeks to get in then I was sick for a week.

    My system is mostly pro after the preamp and is setup for power, although powerful
    IMO it does have finesse and grace at any volume whether low listing levels to extra crispy.
    Without going into a lot of detail about my system it is listed below and I will answer any
    questions about any of the components to the best of my ability.

    I have the tube buffer between the preamp aural exciter and the amplifier for the front two channels so everything my system has goes through it.

    Out of the box the unit is harsh and bright.
    After full week of burning in I can easily say it works magic.
    I heard the instrumentation come to life with stunning realism, woodwinds, piano, strings, percussion all had added depth and detail.
    The highs were more rounded and natural without any reduction of the high notes.
    Vocals were more focused and came forward and were less edgy and harsh.
    I heard no effect at all in the bass, only the midrange and high note were improved.

    I did not do much critiquing of the unit during the break-in period.
    I just left the unit on continuously and other than playing random music, and since it is also the front two channels of my home theater system, movies & TV went through it on a daily basis.

    I play mostly vinyl so after the break-in period and first on the platter was Fleetwood Mac, Rumors on Nautilus super disc. And wow did Stevie Nicks sound great, then Pink Floyd, Wish You were Here on CBS Ĺ master recording all I could is listen with awe.

    I then wanted to listen to something non-synthesized, just plain music so I threw on Alison Krauss & Union Station, So Long So Wrong on Mofi Original Master Recording
    Ĺ Speed mastered and thatís were I could really hear how this box makes an overall improvement, the string instruments and the vocals give you that in front of the stage presence and depth.

    I then tried some classical, Fritz Reiner, Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture on classic records 45 rpm
    The brass section really and came to life and I noticed especially in the low level sections of the performance there was a lot more detail as were before it just seemed to disappear unless I drove up the volume to near feedback levels just to hear what was going on.

    I then went to the CD player, I use my PD-65 as a transport with the optical digital out.
    I only played a couple, but the box did give an improvement to the digital sound, though not as great an improvement as it did with the vinyl but then Iím bias.
    I played the Eagles, Greatest Hits and found the sound to be more natural and less digital sounding were the cymbals seemed to carry through instead of dropping off dead. Vocals benefited too with more depth and focus.
    I then played Jethro Tull, Aqualung on a re-mastered CD and it sounded great as well.

    How does it work well I still do not fully understand.
    Is it a Band-Aid a filter or impedance matcher, it maybe all three?

    In the earlier posts some here were concerned about availability the tubes in the future.
    That will probably still be an issue and something to consider once the supplies have been exhausted it may be impossible to replace the 6112 tubes.
    But please note that these MIL Spec tubes if left on indefinitely have a 100,000 hour life span if my calculations are correct I figure 11.41 years.
    Musical Fidelity has a 2 year warranty.

    It does not cut the highs an anyway it somehow enhances them by making them sound more rounded less boxy the vocals were brought forward, more focused not hidden behind the music. Midranges benefited the most.
    The bass as far as I could tell was not affected.
    It add detail and depth to the music and made each play a more enjoyable listening experience.
    Music Direct has an unconditional satisfaction money back guarantee.
    I will not be using taking advantage of that guarantee, Iím keeping it!

    This review was based on my own listening experience on my system, no analytical equipment was used to provide exacting results. Systems and acoustics will vary from household to household so I can not say to any degree you will have the same listing pleasure as I.
    my system
    Technics SL-1210M5G
    OC9/MLII
    Marantz AV8003
    Oppo BD-83
    Yamaha C-70
    Crown MA-12000i
    Emotiva XPA-5

  14. #14
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRANDONH
    It does not cut the highs an anyway it somehow enhances them by making them sound more rounded less boxy the vocals were brought forward, more focused not hidden behind the music. Midranges benefited the most.
    The bass as far as I could tell was not affected.
    It add detail and depth to the music and made each play a more enjoyable listening experience.
    I'm glad it works for your system.

    While I am clearly in the vacuum tube camp, my approach is towards minimizing stages, rather than adding to them. I'm of the opinion that additional circuits can only degrade, not improve a signal. Perhaps in your case, the buffer is taking off some inherent edge in other stages. For my CDP, I bypass the preamp altogether and use attenuators instead. With it's 4 volt / 75 ohm output, the CD has more drive capability than the preamp. In my system, bypassing the superfluous gain stage improved resolution and imaging, particularly in width. The preamp is used for vinyl playback only.

    rw

  15. #15
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    Hello, I am getting a tube buffer, hopefullyl I won't have a problem placing between my Universal Player and my integrated amp. What interconnects would you recommend? thanks

  16. #16
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    interconnects for tube buffer

    Hello what interconnects would you recommend with MF tube buffer? I would to brighten the Vandersteens I have. My system is very simple, a universal player and an MF integrated. Thank you



    Quote Originally Posted by BRANDONH
    Sorry it took me so long to get this done but the unit was on backorder and took a couple of weeks to get in then I was sick for a week.

    My system is mostly pro after the preamp and is setup for power, although powerful
    IMO it does have finesse and grace at any volume whether low listing levels to extra crispy.
    Without going into a lot of detail about my system it is listed below and I will answer any
    questions about any of the components to the best of my ability.

    I have the tube buffer between the preamp aural exciter and the amplifier for the front two channels so everything my system has goes through it.

    Out of the box the unit is harsh and bright.
    After full week of burning in I can easily say it works magic.
    I heard the instrumentation come to life with stunning realism, woodwinds, piano, strings, percussion all had added depth and detail.
    The highs were more rounded and natural without any reduction of the high notes.
    Vocals were more focused and came forward and were less edgy and harsh.
    I heard no effect at all in the bass, only the midrange and high note were improved.

    I did not do much critiquing of the unit during the break-in period.
    I just left the unit on continuously and other than playing random music, and since it is also the front two channels of my home theater system, movies & TV went through it on a daily basis.

    I play mostly vinyl so after the break-in period and first on the platter was Fleetwood Mac, Rumors on Nautilus super disc. And wow did Stevie Nicks sound great, then Pink Floyd, Wish You were Here on CBS ? master recording all I could is listen with awe.

    I then wanted to listen to something non-synthesized, just plain music so I threw on Alison Krauss & Union Station, So Long So Wrong on Mofi Original Master Recording
    ? Speed mastered and that?s were I could really hear how this box makes an overall improvement, the string instruments and the vocals give you that in front of the stage presence and depth.

    I then tried some classical, Fritz Reiner, Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture on classic records 45 rpm
    The brass section really and came to life and I noticed especially in the low level sections of the performance there was a lot more detail as were before it just seemed to disappear unless I drove up the volume to near feedback levels just to hear what was going on.

    I then went to the CD player, I use my PD-65 as a transport with the optical digital out.
    I only played a couple, but the box did give an improvement to the digital sound, though not as great an improvement as it did with the vinyl but then I?m bias.
    I played the Eagles, Greatest Hits and found the sound to be more natural and less digital sounding were the cymbals seemed to carry through instead of dropping off dead. Vocals benefited too with more depth and focus.
    I then played Jethro Tull, Aqualung on a re-mastered CD and it sounded great as well.

    How does it work well I still do not fully understand.
    Is it a Band-Aid a filter or impedance matcher, it maybe all three?

    In the earlier posts some here were concerned about availability the tubes in the future.
    That will probably still be an issue and something to consider once the supplies have been exhausted it may be impossible to replace the 6112 tubes.
    But please note that these MIL Spec tubes if left on indefinitely have a 100,000 hour life span if my calculations are correct I figure 11.41 years.
    Musical Fidelity has a 2 year warranty.

    It does not cut the highs an anyway it somehow enhances them by making them sound more rounded less boxy the vocals were brought forward, more focused not hidden behind the music. Midranges benefited the most.
    The bass as far as I could tell was not affected.
    It add detail and depth to the music and made each play a more enjoyable listening experience.
    Music Direct has an unconditional satisfaction money back guarantee.
    I will not be using taking advantage of that guarantee, I?m keeping it!

    This review was based on my own listening experience on my system, no analytical equipment was used to provide exacting results. Systems and acoustics will vary from household to household so I can not say to any degree you will have the same listing pleasure as I.

  17. #17
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladerunner
    Hello what interconnects would you recommend with MF tube buffer? I would to brighten the Vandersteens I have. My system is very simple, a universal player and an MF integrated. Thank you
    I guess my first question is "do you have a problem now without a buffer?" Those devices are intended to correct impedance mismatches, not improve the sound per se. I prefer tubes in my system because I find them more musically faithful - not to sweeten another stage's fault.

    While some here would consider me a "wire nut", if anything I find that the better cables which are RF shielded tend to sound darker and free from haze rather than brighter. Perhaps your room is overdamped.

    rw

  18. #18
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    the buffer is fantastic! especially with organic music and of course better recorded CDs. I would like to find "wires" that would brighten the highs as the Vandersteens are mellow.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Cables

    I have tried only about 6 pairs of cables in my system, one half of those were of the solid silver persuasion. All the silvers I tried outperformed copper in terms of detail without overemphasis. The six ran from $65 a pair all the way to $900 (list). I thought an improvement was noticable at each price point.

    All of the silver cables gave what sounds like a boost to the highs, whether this is because they increase transients, reduce hash or decrease bass is unknown. I am pretty sure all the cables I have tried would measure flat to within any reasonable number.

    When I say increase highs, I mean detail seems more emphasized without edgyness. In my opinion solid silver also has the least grain and glare.

    On other people's systems I have listened to silver plated copper cables. To my ears, these seemed to overemphasize detail, they may be what you want.

    There are a couple of internet cable people that sell silver wire kits, still not cheap but also not outrageous as cables can easily become. If you have some time and solder skills ultra pure silver wire and connectors of almost any grade are available to make your own cables. When I tried this they ended up near the middle of my cable performace curve but the price was about $70 per cable pair. Each took several hours to make since I used 8 conductors which were bare and I slid Teflon sleeving over them, then I braided the 8 single wires carefully, they turned out quite pretty.

    I sold my used Homegrown Silver Lace 1 meter for I think $155. Similar products should be available near that price, maybe less on the used market.

  20. #20
    Can a crooner get a gig? dean_martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladerunner
    the buffer is fantastic! especially with organic music and of course better recorded CDs. I would like to find "wires" that would brighten the highs as the Vandersteens are mellow.
    Try a pair of DH Labs Silver sonic T-14 speaker cables. They are comparatively cheap and really opened up the high frequency range with my speakers.

  21. #21
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    I use silver interconnects

    Quote Originally Posted by dean_martin
    Try a pair of DH Labs Silver sonic T-14 speaker cables. They are comparatively cheap and really opened up the high frequency range with my speakers.
    And I also use Silver Sonic wire for jumpers in my crossover.
    Audio;
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    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
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    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  22. #22
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    if you want tube sound buy a tube pre-amp

  23. #23
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Tube Sound

    Originally posted by GlenNewdick
    if you want tube sound buy a tube pre-amp
    Glen(?) is right, although top of the line tube pre-amps runs thousands, decent pre-amps are available used for similar prices to the X-10.

    If you must have new; I think the BottleHead tube pre-amp (kit) sells for less than the X-10 and has gotten some very good reviews.

    Although I can easily imagine or visualize subtracting something from a signal, I have a much harder time believing that you can somehow add in greater amounts of quality.
    Last edited by hermanv; 05-23-2005 at 11:02 AM.

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