Music Lover vs Audiophile

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Once again Terrence, you gave a lengthy response to issues that misses the point of my comments.

When a person buys a recording of heavily processed music, there is simply no independent reference a listener can use to know if he's hearing what the artist intended. An artificial sound, whether created synthetically or an acoustic instrument that's had the daylights processed out of it is just that - artificial. Since it has no real counterpart, a listener has no way to know if he's hearing what's intended. He can only say he likes it, or use his imagination to think some other sound quality would have been better.

I would dare say this goes for any recording heard by the end user. You have no reference to a recording of all acoustic instruments without listening to the original file or analog master, you can only say you like it or you don't. There is no real reference unless you have access to the masters. What you cannot seem to wrap your head around is that the artist approves every release that goes out of the studio. So what leaves the studio is exactly what the artist wanted you to hear. They have far more input in shaping the sound of any release than they used to have when the sound war was in full effect. That CD or digital file is exactly what the artist wants you to hear, so that is your reference good or bad.

I also find little similarity between live, heavily amplified rock concerts and recordings, though I don't have much interest in the touring rock extravaganzas that seem popular with others. (I always find it amusing when classic rock types start obsessing about "soundstage", as if that replicated something live. Plus, there is something wonderfully ironic when one claims to be an audiophile but has to wear ear plugs at a live event to protect hearing.)

There is little similarity between live and recorded sound because their jobs are fundamentally different. One serves the needs of the venue, the other is for our rooms, ears and playback systems.

I am a audiophile, and I wear ear plugs to protect my hearing because I am not the only person listening. The sound system has to serve thousands of people, not just me in my listening room. The sound will be loud to some, and not so loud to others in the crowd. A live PA must cover a very large space with even sound, and my playback system just covers me. The recording is a snapshot of the sound from microphones at strategic positions, the live sound covers the entire venue. Live and recorded sound cannot and should not be compared to each other, the jobs are quite different, and so are the tools.

I think we just live in different worlds, Terrence. You're at the forefront of an industry doing a lot of things that have little interest for me.

And yet you are here criticizing......hummmmmmmm

[E-Stat]

You have no reference to a recording of all acoustic instruments without listening to the original file or analog master, you can only say you like it or you don't.

You really don't have a notion of what any number of acoustic instruments sound like devoid of getting played through PA gear or countless processing steps? Sorry to hear that.

What you cannot seem to wrap your head around is that the artist approves every release that goes out of the studio. So what leaves the studio is exactly what the artist wanted you to hear.

That is a truly depressing testament. Are all artists really that deaf to not have any understanding of dynamic range?

...and not so loud to others in the crowd.

120 db is "not so loud to others"? Waddit you say? Huh?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You really don't have a notion of what any number of acoustic instruments sound like devoid of getting played through PA gear or countless processing steps? Sorry to hear that.

I would wager I know far more about what acoustic instruments sound like than you do. How many concerts have you recorded? How about film scores? ASSumptions are never a good thing.

That is a truly depressing testament. Are all artists really that deaf to not have any understanding of dynamic range?

The artist has no choice in this aspect when the marketing department is telling you the record company wants it loud so it plays well on the radio.

120 db is "not so loud to others"? Waddit you say? Huh?

Stick to TALKING about audio Ralph, you wouldn't last twenty seconds on the comedy circuit.

[E-Stat]

I would wager I know far more about what acoustic instruments sound like than you do. How many concerts have you recorded? How about film scores?

And yet, you don't seem to understand or retain what you've heard.

The artist has no choice in this aspect when the marketing department is telling you the record company wants it loud so it plays well on the radio.

Bingo, we have a winner!!!! Now you've acknowledged the real answer.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

And yet, you don't seem to understand or retain what you've heard.

How would you know this, a spirit told you? Or perhaps Harry Potter gave you his magic wand so you can read my mind? This is at best a stupid statement, and t worst, a very stupid statement.

Bingo, we have a winner!!!! Now you've acknowledged the real answer.

That answer does not apply to every release by every artist does it?

[E-Stat]

How would you know this, a spirit told you?

The "spirit" would be you with your previous comments.

That answer does not apply to every release by every artist does it?

Only the vast majority of current music which shares this gross compression. You might recall that the AES has formally complained about that.

[Brett A]

I hate music. I only listen to frequency sweeps.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The "spirit" would be you with your previous comments.

And what comments would those be?

Only the vast majority of current music which shares this gross compression. You might recall that the AES has formally complained about that.

Much more targeted response, because not ALL music is highlty compressed.

I am acutely aware of the AES complaint, I was one of the members complaining.

[Florian]

How would you know this, a spirit told you? Or perhaps Harry Potter gave you his magic wand so you can read my mind? This is at best a stupid statement, and t worst, a very stupid statement.




That answer does not apply to every release by every artist does it?

Please leave Harrys magic wang....aeh.... wand out of this

[Feanor]

I would dare say this goes for any recording heard by the end user. You have no reference to a recording of all acoustic instruments without listening to the original file or analog master, you can only say you like it or you don't. There is no real reference unless you have access to the masters. What you cannot seem to wrap your head around is that the artist approves every release that goes out of the studio. So what leaves the studio is exactly what the artist wanted you to hear. They have far more input in shaping the sound of any release than they used to have when the sound war was in full effect. That CD or digital file is exactly what the artist wants you to hear, so that is your reference good or bad. ...

I like to think that I have a nuanced view of the importance of the live reference.

For a start, what is a individual's "live reference"?? For one thing, live sound differs according to various parameters, including at least the music(!), the ensemble, the conductor, the venue, and one's personal seat in the venue. Consequently the individual has no single live references. Rather a person's live reference is really pastiche of many live listening experiences.

Furthermore I believe people "idealize" their live reference composite according to their preference in sound. An individual's perceived "live reference" as very far from an objective thing.

Sir Terrence, I agree that the relevant entity is the recording: each is its own artistic and technical product. As far as accuracy is concerned, absolutely the only benchmark is what the sound engineer heard in the mastering room. Accuracy per se is with respect to the recording, not to the "live reference".

Just the same, the only way to understand what (acoustic) instruments sound like, is to hear them live.