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For the Love of Music....
After reading many of the recent posts around here, I thought that it was time to start my own thread regarding the issue of science vs. art. Please feel free to write whatever you wish in regards to this topic.
Music, for my of us, is an emotional experience. It is one that we hope to replicate within the confines of a room with equipment that we purchase in an attempt to make beloved classics, new favorites, and just anything we have a strong desire to hear come to life before our ears.
You can't measure this experience. You can have graphs and diagrams, calibrate here, diagnostic tests there, you can strive the best you can to "perfect" your setup however you wish, but the emotional pull that sends you into a new dimension is one that cannot be quantified.
It is this feeling, this emotion, this artistic expression that we yearn to have with each recording we hear, with each time we rest there and ask to be taken to those moments again.
Science helps us achieve certain realities and while some may look at the mathematical aspects that are even applied within artworks such as white space, lines, texture, symmetry, it is the emotion that keeps us staring at a Matisse painting or a Michelangelo sculpture. Like the Great Pyramids of Giza there was a scientific method of construction, yet there is an artistic expression that cannot be measured in blocks.
We are lovers of this hobby, the hobby of music, the hobby of sound, the hobby that sometimes marries the movement of pictures to that sound and brings forth an even newer dimension, a newer fascination. Often though, just the music alone can evoke the most powerful images that no screen or HDTV could possibly capture.
We are passionate creatures here, we love our "stuff", we love our mancaves, our asylums, our refuge and musical sanctuaries. But aren't we forgetting that with that passion and conviction comes the very essence of beauty and art married together in a place that sometimes only we understand, not others. It's for our ears only. For us to appreciate, value, cherish, nurture. Yet we want others to feel and hear and enjoy those things that bring smiles to our faces, tears to our eyes, warmth to our hearts.
Let's not forget that this hobby is to be shared, to be loved together in the same harmonies that we relish on some beautiful album we have tucked away.
A speaker is a speaker...no more, no less. It's not how many dB's or Hertz or whatever that matter, it's the emotional experience that it brings forth, paired with other equipment in a type of synergistic way that we strive to perfect, we want to be moved by the sound. It cannot be calculated, it cannot be quantified, it just is. It's something we dream of and aspire to. It's those moments that make this hobby unique and aspiring.
Thoughts?
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A speaker is a speaker...no more, no less
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Hahahaha, are you kidding?
What a bunch of drivel. Like anyone here is supposed to believe you're some sentimental, Socratic dreamer? What about my set up that you keep insulting, does that fall under the "passion" and "love" too?
Thoughts? You're all over the place, like any well practiced hypocrite. Insulting people in one breath and then making sweeping, loving sentiments in another.
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Originally Posted by poppachubby
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Hahahaha, are you kidding?
What a bunch of drivel. Like anyone here is supposed to believe you're some sentimental, Socratic dreamer? What about my set up that you keep insulting, does that fall under the "passion" and "love" too?
Thoughts? You're all over the place, like any well practiced hypocrite. Insulting people in one breath and then making sweeping, loving sentiments in another.
Apparently you have a hard time with any type of criticism. If you love your system, than so be it. To me, it looks cluttered and we are all reminded of that with each post since you broadcast your system with your signature in each post you have. If your system brings joy and emotion into your listening ears, than so be it and good for you for finding audio bliss.
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Criticism isn't the issue here. Someone with such a great grasp of the English language surely knows better than that. My issue is your rudeness. It's unneccesary and uncalled for. It's also contrary to how this membership does things. Hey tell ya what. I'll show you what I mean...
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I am not going to speak about wether PS is rude or not, we had such discussions for a long while, and all the threads ended up being closed.
I am, however, interested in the reason why you think his system is cluttered? I mean, it's not in a superdeluxe hifi rack, but it's practical and you can store alot of things in it. it's in a dedicated room, that might not look quite as "chique" as all the $$$ dollar rooms out there, specifically built to be made for audio, and threated in many ways
as far as his gear goes, I see a well cared after system, I see VERY high quality gear, and some very desirable components (the Eico, or the Bozak, for example). I see a system made out of good and very good quality components, which are loved not only by him, but also by many others.
I'd like to see your parasound amps in 40 years, not that they are bad amps, in the contrary, but they have no long term value. there is nothing "special" about them.
You are insulting a friend of mine.
cheers,
Bert.
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Thanks Bert. Means alot buddy.
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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
... we want to be moved by the sound. It cannot be calculated, it cannot be quantified, it just is. It's something we dream of and aspire to. It's those moments that make this hobby unique and aspiring.
Thoughts?
Apparently it can be quantified and calculated. If you're really interested in this topic then you should read Daniel Levitin's book, This Is Your Brain On Music. I've also seen a show on PBS where Sting allowed Levitin to scan his brain while listening to one of his favourite pieces of music. Its fascinating stuff if you're really interested in the science behind the love of music.
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It is evident that some people are audiophiles with little or know interest in music. Most of us aren't like that, but there are the folks with systems worth tens of thousands and a collections of a few dozen records chosen solely on their ability to demonstrate their systems.
Most of us are hobbiests; like most hobbies, hifi assumes a life of its own apart from any rational or justification.
For me music isn't especially emotional; for the most part it is, in some combination, relaxing or intellectually stimulating. On those criteria, where would you say this fits in?
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Feanor, you don't think that being relaxed or stimulated is emotional? Putting the "who has the biggest gear" conversation aside for a moment, there are those of us who enjoy music to the point of not being able to imagine our lives without it, and then there is the bulk of society who go around and just hear the music in the background; a radio, elevator muzak, the sound of a car stereo...it's all just white noise for many people.
But I think that the people on this site are real lovers of sound, be it music or HT. I listen to music at work. When someone comes into my office to talk to me, I have to turn the music off. I don't do it because I'm so interested in what they have to say or because I can't hear them with the speakers blasting. I do it because my brain will focus on the music and not the conversation if I leave it on.
It's like looking at a picture. Science dictates that your eye will always be drawn to the brightest spot on a page. My brain will always be drawn to the most melodic sound in a room.
If a piece of music relaxes you, or stimulates you, or stresses you, it is an emotional reaction. That music has triggered your brain to react. I believe that all of our brains react differently. That's why some people love rap, others love opera or heavy metal...or both! :D
Have you never listened to a piece of music or been to a concert and been moved to tears?
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Oh, and as for that piece of music that you've posted. I listened to it twice and found it stressful. It's a bit too all over the map for me. There is no natural flow. Which on the one hand makes in interesting, but on the other hand gave me a headache. I want to follow it. But I can't. It goes in the wrong direction. It's not a bad thing...rather interesting actually. But not something that I could listen to a third time. :)
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Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
Oh, and as for that piece of music that you've posted. I listened to it twice and found it stressful. It's a bit too all over the map for me. There is no natural flow. Which on the one hand makes in interesting, but on the other hand gave me a headache. I want to follow it. But I can't. It goes in the wrong direction. It's not a bad thing...rather interesting actually. But not something that I could listen to a third time. :)
So, yes, your reaction to this music is probably the common one hence what I would expect. However I have gotten used to this sort of "atonal" music and enjoy listening to it fairly often. When in the right mood find it intellectual and rather serene, and therefore for me, both relaxing and stimulating.
But, BTW, it is rather poor "background" music: you have listen actively.
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:16:
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Originally Posted by Feanor
So, yes, your reaction to this music is probably the common one hence what I would expect. However I have gotten used to this sort of "atonal" music and enjoy listening to it fairly often. When in the right mood find it intellectual and rather serene, and therefore for me, both relaxing and stimulating.
But, BTW, it is rather poor "background" music: you have listen actively.
Yes, I can see how it would be both relaxing and stimulating. I think that if I could separate the piano from the strings, it's almost two pieces of music. The strings are very soothing. The piano a bit too contorted and thus the stimulation.
I'm still not listening to it again. :lol:
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Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
Apparently you have a hard time with any type of criticism. If you love your system, than so be it. To me, it looks cluttered and we are all reminded of that with each post since you broadcast your system with your signature in each post you have. If your system brings joy and emotion into your listening ears, than so be it and good for you for finding audio bliss.
Poppachubby brings great enthusiasm to AR. You bring high blood pressure. Poppa does many nice things for members. I like how Poppa buys by sound not by name. Let us all be more like Poppachubby.
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I love nice gear. I'd own better gear if I could. Hell, I might even buy speakers instead of building my own. But I'll settle for just about anything for love of music. I'll listen thru laptop speakers if I must. I'd rather hear my favorite music on a shitty setup, than music I can't stand on the best system in the world.
I'll never critique anyone's gear for the sake of music. To be honest, I could care less what kind of gear any of you have - I never read equipment lists. Nothing more insufferable than going to a guy's house and watching him play 30-40 seconds of several songs to demo his system (especially when you di'nt ask in the first place). I'd rather collect music than chase technology.
listen to music, not gear
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Originally Posted by 3LB
listen to music, not gear
YEAH! Right on! :3:
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Originally Posted by poppachubby
Criticism isn't the issue here. Someone with such a great grasp of the English language surely knows better than that. My issue is your rudeness. It's unneccesary and uncalled for. It's also contrary to how this membership does things. Hey tell ya what. I'll show you what I mean...
I think your system looks nice. I like the vinyl on the walls. Have you considered putting the album cover on the walls instead of the actual vinyl? I buy albums just for the cover art sometimes. Eventually I might be surprised and like the artist as well :15:
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Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
YEAH! Right on! :3:
Guess it's time to sell those nice speakers you just got :)
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Originally Posted by Feanor
It is evident that some people are audiophiles with little or know interest in music. Most of us aren't like that, but there are the folks with systems worth tens of thousands and a collections of a few dozen records chosen solely on their ability to demonstrate their systems.
Most of us are hobbiests; like most hobbies, hifi assumes a life of its own apart from any rational or justification.
For me music isn't especially emotional; for the most part it is, in some combination, relaxing or intellectually stimulating. On those criteria, where would you say this fits in?
I luv this piece of music, I find it very relaxing, on an intellectual level I like it because it has very little similarity with string quartets from the baroque and romantic era.
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Originally Posted by Hyfi
Guess it's time to sell those nice speakers you just got :)
No way. I use the gear to enhance the music experience. But it's always been music first for me. I spend more time listening to music on crappy speakers than on good speakers.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that I'm not having a love affair with my speaks. :ihih:
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Originally Posted by 3LB
I love nice gear. I'd own better gear if I could. Hell, I might even buy speakers instead of building my own. But I'll settle for just about anything for love of music. I'll listen thru laptop speakers if I must. I'd rather hear my favorite music on a shitty setup, than music I can't stand on the best system in the world.
I'll never critique anyone's gear for the sake of music. To be honest, I could care less what kind of gear any of you have - I never read equipment lists. Nothing more insufferable than going to a guy's house and watching him play 30-40 seconds of several songs to demo his system (especially when you di'nt ask in the first place). I'd rather collect music than chase technology.
listen to music, not gear
Everyone here is here because they are chasing gear. Hopefully they chase gear that will serve the music and their enjoyment of the music better. A system that can portray as much diverse music in the best possible light (with emphasis on enjoyment) will be less likely to have a person chasing technology.
A system that can play all of the following at soft and loud and very loud levels and inspire appropriate emotion (and this is inherent in the music you love but can be enhanced with better gear) is a system that I will like:
Ahh Vivaldi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DWAdJKUlxo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEvE_04x-xI (most systems at CES fell apart on this - big treble lots of busy and loud - it's compressed and an example of the loudness war at play but it nevertheless is a nice tester)
Gaga doing Abba http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niqrrmev4mA
Nightwish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4LyKd-Hws (ha-ha-ha)
Oscar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7yRu...eature=related
Loreena McKennitt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B7sH...eature=related
The Canadian fiddle/dance band Leahy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJSnP2NpW8 a lot of stuff folds up with this stuff. This is one fun group.
Just because I love it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ03ngpdU80
Love this girl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smXsEcM4YGQ Most systems suck doing it well too.
The track that destroyed all the speakers on my shopping list and everything I heard over the 20 years preceeding - except one (and now a few more since) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQVeaIHWWck
Enjoy a slice of RGA's evening sessions - :16:
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WOW! Thanks RGA. I really enjoyed it. Ima going to have to pick up that Anne-Sophie Mutter for sure. But you know I enjoyed that Oscar Peterson and Joe Pass more than any of them. I did have the honor of seeing Peterson, Pass, Ella Fitzgerald and Count Basie back in the early 80's. Basie even came out in a wheel chair. All he did was hit a few notes on the keys but hey, I still got a chance to see his last tour.
And of course I've always been a Johnny Cash fan. And whats so hard about doing Sade? Love her too and seen her as well.
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Ok..RGA. You gotta tell me which of Beethoven's sonatas is this, and who is playing this one.
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Oh I see its his moonlight sonata...check out Marcus Miller playing Moonlight Sonata. In my opinion...Marcus does not do it any justice...he should have left it alone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhbi8...eature=related
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Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
:16:
Yes, I can see how it would be both relaxing and stimulating. I think that if I could separate the piano from the strings, it's almost two pieces of music. The strings are very soothing. The piano a bit too contorted and thus the stimulation.
I'm still not listening to it again. :lol:
Ummm ... that's would be tough; this is string quartet, there is no piano part. Maybe you'd better listen again, eh? :smilewinkgrin:
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Frenchmom
I posted the wrong Loreen McKennitt - My favorite is this one - for the enjoyment of English/Art majors everywhere http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw_cZGrVFqw
The youtube version is missing the last verse due to youtube time constraints. Loreena basically sings "most" of Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem - poem here http://charon.sfsu.edu/tennyson/tennlady.html
Pretty cool - music is poetry so I would love to see some artists take on some of the old poets' work and see what kind of music they would put to it. The poets usually write better than rock singers anyway!!
A fellow teacher I worked with often played with Oscar Peterson back in his touring days. I think I'll pick up a couple of LPs of him this weekend. CD isn't the same.
Sade has quite a lot of deep bass, quite a lot of horn instruments, and quite a nice singer in a quasi Jazz/Pop/Soul/R&B thing she has going on. I think Feist and Didio have a lot of Sade in them - even the pop/country singer Colbie Caillat has some Sade sprinkled in.
I like that Marcus Miller gave it a go - it takes a lot of balls to make a jazz interpretation of what is a Piano piece. Miller can play and I liked his version - it strays far enough away that it is a song in its own right. As good as Miller is he isn't Beethoven and I still prefer the original piece better but I liked Miller's take.
Far too much lock step - everything is pretty much taken from the classical artists anyway so it's not the end of the world. I don't know who is playing the Moonlight Sonata there - just did a quick google for it. I actually like the rendition on one of my NAXOS albums better than some of the ones but my CD's are all over the place. I recently got a stack of about 500LPs and there are some Beethoven albums in that lot so I am hoping. The Moonlight Sonata is one of my favorite classical pieces. One of my other favorites is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmUPl7Pv0Zg&feature=fvst
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